Re: [Gendergap] This list
Ideal moderation, for me (and perhaps this isn't even possible; I'm not sure how the backends of these mailing lists work) would be directed at users, not individual emails. I wouldn't expect a moderator to approve every post, or to edit posts, or anything like that. But I would expect them to enforce the idea of if you can't engage calmly and without attacking your colleagues, you don't get to engage here. A cool-down timeout if someone just seems to have gotten out of hand temporarily; permanent removal from the list if the person persistently cannot behave in a collegial manner. Yes, this puts me pretty strongly on the side of the evil Civility Police. So be it. -Fluff On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 7:07 PM, Marc Riddell michaeldavi...@comcast.netwrote: So that everyone is on the same frequency; what exactly is meant by moderation when it comes to a discussion/conversation/debate? And what, exactly, is a moderator expected to do Marc Riddell on 10/3/11 6:56 PM, Nathan at nawr...@gmail.com wrote: I agree that several posts recently should have resulted in some sort of moderation. I'm not sure [[WP:CIVIL]] is the answer... That's an English Wikipedia policy, and applying en.wp policies to non-en.wp venues generally gets a strong reaction from non en.wp'ers :-P ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] study about gendered names and IRC
Hmmm, interesting. I've often wondered whether I would have had a less pleasant experience fitting into the wiki(p|m)edia IRC channels if I had an obviously-gendered nick. As it is, I get maybe one random pm a month, if that, and most of those are of the vague hi-followed-by-silence sort. None that I can remember have ever been sexually explicit, though I think I might have gotten threats once or twice. Maybe one day I'll run my own little experiment and masquerade under a clearly-female name and see how that changes... -Fluffernutter On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 2:05 AM, Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.orgwrote: I just read the following paper which describes an interesting study that was conducted regarding IRC: http://www.enre.umd.edu/content/rmeyer-assessing.pdfhttps://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://www.enre.umd.edu/content/rmeyer-assessing.pdfembedded=truechrome=true The researchers created several IRC bots with different names - some female, some male, and some ambiguous. They put the bots in several high traffic IRC channels, and had them record all the private messages they received. The bots themselves were completely silent. The bots with male names received an average of 3.7 private messages per days that were sexually explicit or threatening. The bots with ambiguous names received an average of 24.9 such messages per day. The bots with female names received an average of 100 such messages per day! This is a very sad statistic, and probably goes a long way towards explaining why there aren't that many women on IRC these days. On a happier note, if you want to hang out on IRC and not get sexually harassed, you can always join #wikimedia-gendergap! Ryan Kaldari ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Reminder of Feminism Article Alerts
Just for the record: I am in possession of a full set of female genitalia, and I think Carol's tone was aggressive and very clearly represented an assumption of bad faith. Accusing other editors of AfDing articles because of some crypto-misogyny plan they're secretly pursing, especially editors who have no history of such a thing, is not helping to close of the gendergap. It's shoving a wedge into that gap and going No one but me can possibly be working for the good here. Off with you, penis-havers! Similarly, implying that someone is not allowed to express an opinion about someone's behavior unless/until they do the work you prefer them to do is not advocating for women or women's rights. It's advocating for shutting out everyone who isn't doing exactly what you want them to do, in exactly the proportions you want them to do it. In short: the repressive comments I see in this conversation are coming from women, not men, and it saddens me that people think this sort of behavior somehow helps anything. -Fluffernutter On Sun, Aug 26, 2012 at 4:39 PM, Laura Hale la...@fanhistory.com wrote: snip I find nothing wrong with Carol's tone and I find it troubling that the people who do are all men, and that men continue to dominate the conversation with out having provided any real evidence of their value to improving the gendergap or any evidence of having learned lessons from this list... such as, you know, using the tone argument to historically repress women and how it really looks when men appear to gang up on a woman to do that. Now, that may not be your intent, and I assuming you were acting in good faith in making your comment... but now you know. :) And hopefully, you will use fewer arguments used to historically repress female voices. :) Anyway, what gendergap work have you been doing lately Ryan? We miss you on Wikinews and would love to have you writing articles about women over there. :) Sincerely, Laura Hale Sent from my iPad On 26/08/2012, at 7:11 PM, Ryan Vesey rdjve...@gmail.com wrote: Carol, I have to point out that I added myself to the gender gap list because I want to help reduce it; however, comments you make are pushing me to remove myself. Your attitude when it comes to feminism is combative. Taking a combative stance doesn’t help your argument. ** ** Ryan Vesey ** ** *From:* gendergap-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto: gendergap-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] *On Behalf Of *Thomas Morton *Sent:* Sunday, August 26, 2012 11:38 AM *To:* Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects *Subject:* Re: [Gendergap] Reminder of Feminism Article Alerts ** ** What I am taking personally is your assertion that we nominated these articles for some anti-female agenda. ** ** Which you continue to do by suggesting my characterisation of your argument as ridiculous is due to you being a woman. ** ** The irony of then telling me not to take it personally is... Ah, well.. ** ** ** ** Of course I take personally being characterised as holding offensive views. ** ** The point was; I am educating you about the sorts of things that put people off editing. I am a big believer in making wikipedia a welcoming place, and your comments characterise the unfortunate low level nastiness that often puts people off. I am sure it was unintended, hence the explanation. Tom Morton On 26 Aug 2012, at 17:28, Carol Moore DC carolmoor...@verizon.net wrote: As a female I've been called ridiculous for having an opinion so many times I don't even know what it means anymore :-) But seriously, it's not like the nominator said:I'm on the GenderGap list and here's why I think this list would agree these articles should be deleted... Don't take rejections of AfD nominations so personally... CM On 8/26/2012 11:50 AM, Thomas Morton wrote: ** ** On 26 Aug 2012, at 16:36, Carol Moore DC carolmoor...@verizon.net wrote: Questionable just means one has questions. So it's nice, unlike the other words which I was contrasting with questionable - not using to describe my specific questions on specific articles in that particular AfD list. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Feminism/Article_alerts But frankly I do wonder why two people on this list nominate brand new articles related to women for deletion rather than improving them. HOWEVER -- the specifics should be discussed at the relevant AfD pages, so if this little dust up gets people there, goody goody!! :-) CM ** ** ** ** Wow. What a ridiculous way to say yes. Ive always found you to be switched on and relevant in the past; but looking over your contributions to those AFDs it feels like your certain the aim is to remove these articles because we are anti-women. And for no other reason. ** ** This is the sort of thing that puts women off editing Wikipedia and I am happy to call it
Re: [Gendergap] Reminder of Feminism Article Alerts
Carol, I know you feel aggrieved in this situation, but I would ask you to please consider stepping away from this conversation. This conversation is making the list look like it's populated not by gendergap closers, but nasty people who enjoy being nasty for the sake of feeling special. And that characterization is not because of what Thomas has been writing - it's from what you've been writing. Frankly I would rather fork to a list populated by people who speak and act like him than stay on a list dominated by people who speak and act like you. It would be more likely to accomplish our goal than this list. And to pre-empt a possible reply, I'm saying this not because I'm a brainwashed, patriarchy-dominated woman who thinks men have rights to speak that you don't, but because I am someone who feels NO ONE has the right to attack others like you've been doing, no matter what minority you do it in the name of. I know the list mods have been trying to keep a hands-off approach to members, but it's really reached the point for me where I feel nothing good can be accomplished on this list if its level of discourse is allowed to stay where it is. -Fluff On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 3:07 PM, Carol Moore DC carolmoor...@verizon.netwrote: On 8/26/2012 5:33 PM, Emily Monroe wrote: It's probably better to avoid arguments of tone online, even if it's a tone you want to avoid yourself, because it's way too easy to misinterpret without tonal inflection, or other bits of non-verbal body language. You may have misinterpreted the tone you're trying to criticize, or they may have misinterpreted what you're trying to say. Excellent point. I said questionable without defining what I meant. He said not nice which I took as a personal slur. I made a joke about what I WOULD have said if I was NOT being nice. Someone others took that as my actual position which it was not. My actual was reaction was that PERHAPS those young guys who get their questionable jollies AfDing new articles like it was a video game had just shot down three articles of interest to women - none of which I named, merely shared the link to Feminist Wikiproject list. I didn't pay attention to who did the AfDs and didn't really think about that issue at all. That was as far as my analysis went in the 45 seconds it took me to send the message. Sorry for what obviously was an extreme criminal act in some people's eyes!! Women, make sure you take at least an hour before posting here to make sure there isn't a single word - and especially no JOKES - that anyone could possible misinterpret. CM __**_ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/gendergaphttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Do the April Fool's Day jokes on English Wikipedia's front page deter women editors?
It's two very different issues to argue about a) whether dirty word DYKs drive off women (I'm on record on Jimbo's talk as thinking that's silly), and b) whether dirty word DYKs are puerile and not as good a type of joke as we should be doing, if we want to do jokes (which appears to be basically Jimbo's stance, and which I agree with). Yes, toilet and sex humor is juvenile, but I don't think it's a female-repelling type of juvenilia. And whether it is or not, we can probably do better when it comes to April Fool's, anyway. -Fluff On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 1:24 PM, Andreas Kolbe jayen...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 5:06 AM, Carol Moore DC carolmoor...@verizon.netwrote: It took forever to get the actual article [[Circle jerk]] into Wikipedia - a female did it. Now, now, Carol. The record shows that *I* created the circle jerk article, and I am not a female. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Circle_jerk_(sexual_practice)action=history However, I will concede that I created the article entirely in response to your helpful suggestion. So in a way, the credit is indeed all yours. :) Best, Andreas ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
