Re: [GNC] Please address broken QIF import

[Adrien Monteleone]

What do you find about dropping to an earlier release, not 
'straightforward'? It is a simple matter of removing the current 
release, and installing the older one. (I believe on Windows systems, 
you can safely just install the older release as the installer will do 
the in-place replacement for you)


I also can't fathom exactly how you imagine the developers have 'made 
downgrading harder'. I don't see that they've done any such thing. They 
even make an effort to support reverting to recent older releases for 
just this purpose.


If you have followed the recommended upgrade procedure via the Wiki's 
FAQ, you should be able to easily drop down to the last version of the 
last major release before your current one if necessary, though in most 
cases, simply dropping one or two point-releases within the current 
major version is sufficient. (and in some cases, not even necessary as 
there may be workarounds, albeit with a bit of extra effort)


Yes, there have been a few significant issues over the last year or so 
that have prompted more 'downgrades' than previously. But so far as I 
can tell following the threads, every one of those was caused by outside 
software.


Overall, this is one of the most responsive and helpful development 
teams I've experienced for any software I use. And there's no mega-corp 
behind them, just a handful of gracious folks donating their time and 
effort because they care and they want to see the project they use 
themselves, survive and thrive. (the devs are users too, and they can 
experience the same regressions, and frustrations, along with the rest 
of us.)



Regards,
Adrien

On 4/24/24 5:24 PM, Yann Salmon via gnucash-user wrote:
downgrading is really not a
straightforward route as software managers, for good reasons, make 
upgrading software easy and downgrading it harder


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Re: [GNC] Please address broken QIF import

[Joseph Keithley]

I tried the -1 but it doesn't import my qif's either.  I had to go back to
version 5.5.

On Thu, Apr 25, 2024 at 12:28 AM sunfish62--- via gnucash-user <
gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote:

> While I am uncomfortable with Jim's overall tone, he makes valid points to
> consider.
>
> Also,
> https://code.gnucash.org/builds/win32/releases/gnucash-5.6-1.setup.exe
> was pushed out a couple of weeks ago and announced as a fix to an import
> problem, I believe. I admit I don't pay too much attention to discussions
> about importing, since I stopped using import features a long time ago.
> Maybe it will remedy your troubles.
>
> ⁣David T. ​
>
> On Apr 25, 2024, 3:13 AM, at 3:13 AM, Jim DeLaHunt 
> wrote:
> >On 2024-04-23 14:31, Yann Salmon via gnucash-user wrote:
> >> Since there is, if I understand correctly, a fix to this major bug, I
> >
> >> really think a 5.6.1 release would be helpful.…
> >On 2024-04-24 15:24, Yann Salmon via gnucash-user wrote:
> >> …the one thing I learned is : you do not break things, and if you do,
> >
> >> you unbreak them as quickly as possible.…
> >>
> >> …I would be interested to know the bigger picture that I am obviously
> >
> >> missing in the decision not to publish a .1 that fixes a regression
> >> (especially on a stable release) and allows Otto Normaluser and his
> >> Grandma to quickly get back on their feet by simpling doing what they
> >
> >> know and have been educated to do : upgrading their software.
> >
> >Oh, I think I can help you see the bigger picture.
> >
> >Please run a report on your financial records in GnuCash. Look for all
> >the payments you made to the GnuCash developers, in order to have the
> >use of GnuCash software.  If your records are like mine, the total
> >amount will be:
> >
> >0.00 EUR (approximately 0.00 CAD, 0.00 USD, 0.00 CNY, at current
> >exchange rates)
> >
> >I suspect that the GnuCash team has spent at least double that amount,
> >and applied it to making a 5.6.1 release. It was sufficient for them to
> >
> >reach 0% of the way to completion. (I am being sarcastic. I don't know
> >the internals of the GnuCash project.)
> >
> >Putting aside sarcasm, please remember that the GnuCash developers are
> >volunteers. They are donating their time and expertise to develop
> >GnuCash. There are not many of them. Yet they deliver regular releases,
> >
> >complete with bug fixes, and ever-increasing capabilities.  The
> >appropriate tone to take with them is one of gratitude.
> >
> >At the same time, the GnuCash developers have granted you a license to
> >GnuCash's source code. You are permitted to see the source code, to
> >diagnose the problem yourself, and to come up with a fix. If you wish,
> >you can donate the fix back to the GnuCash developers. Or, you could
> >make your own 5.6.1 release with the fix (but this is "forking", and
> >you
> >should give the new software a different name).  If you own skills do
> >not extend to diagnosing and fixing the problem, you are free to hire a
> >
> >skilled software engineer, and have them diagnose, fix, and release a
> >version of the software for you. If you want to pay the software
> >engineer for an extended time, so that they can build up a relationship
> >
> >with the GnuCash developers, they might be able to take on the task of
> >making bug-fix releases. It could be your contribution to GnuCash.
> >Please, go right ahead!
> >
> >However, you may discover that this costs you more in time and money
> >than the 0.00 EUR which you have paid for GnuCash so far.
> >
> >Best regards,
> >  —Jim DeLaHunt
> >
> >
> >On 2024-04-24 15:24, Yann Salmon via gnucash-user wrote:
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> Le 23/04/2024 à 23:48, David Carlson a écrit :
> >>> Sir,
> >>>
> >>> In my experience most financial institutions that offer QIF exports
> >>> also offer OFX format which will often go under a similar name.
> >>
> >> Alas, a hundred times alas, not always. Not in France, at least. They
> >
> >> should…
> >>
> >> I was able, however, to use . I
> >
> >> had to reverse all transactions (which is easier to do in the QIF,
> >> btw) because my bank seems to directly produce a QIF for my point of
> >> view while GnuCash seems to expect a QIF with transactions from the
> >> bank's point of view, but that is another story.
> >>
> >>
> >>> If you need the QIF format then you will probably be stuck either
> >>> waiting for the 5.7 windows release or reverting either to an
> >earlier
> >>> 5 series or maybe even 4 series if you have an older Linux based
> >>> machine as I do.
> >>
> >> Even though the Gnucash team has been releasing new versions at a
> >> steady and formidable rythm of one every 3 to 4 months, that still
> >> makes 4 months of non-working QIF import — downgrading is really not
> >a
> >> straightforward route as software managers, for good reasons, make
> >> upgrading software easy and downgrading it harder (and one would have
> >
> >> to get the idea of doing so).
> >>
> 

Re: [GNC] Please address broken QIF import

[sunfish62--- via gnucash-user]

While I am uncomfortable with Jim's overall tone, he makes valid points to 
consider. 

Also, https://code.gnucash.org/builds/win32/releases/gnucash-5.6-1.setup.exe 
was pushed out a couple of weeks ago and announced as a fix to an import 
problem, I believe. I admit I don't pay too much attention to discussions about 
importing, since I stopped using import features a long time ago. Maybe it will 
remedy your troubles. 

⁣David T. ​

On Apr 25, 2024, 3:13 AM, at 3:13 AM, Jim DeLaHunt  
wrote:
>On 2024-04-23 14:31, Yann Salmon via gnucash-user wrote:
>> Since there is, if I understand correctly, a fix to this major bug, I
>
>> really think a 5.6.1 release would be helpful.… 
>On 2024-04-24 15:24, Yann Salmon via gnucash-user wrote:
>> …the one thing I learned is : you do not break things, and if you do,
>
>> you unbreak them as quickly as possible.…
>>
>> …I would be interested to know the bigger picture that I am obviously
>
>> missing in the decision not to publish a .1 that fixes a regression 
>> (especially on a stable release) and allows Otto Normaluser and his 
>> Grandma to quickly get back on their feet by simpling doing what they
>
>> know and have been educated to do : upgrading their software. 
>
>Oh, I think I can help you see the bigger picture.
>
>Please run a report on your financial records in GnuCash. Look for all 
>the payments you made to the GnuCash developers, in order to have the 
>use of GnuCash software.  If your records are like mine, the total 
>amount will be:
>
>0.00 EUR (approximately 0.00 CAD, 0.00 USD, 0.00 CNY, at current 
>exchange rates)
>
>I suspect that the GnuCash team has spent at least double that amount, 
>and applied it to making a 5.6.1 release. It was sufficient for them to
>
>reach 0% of the way to completion. (I am being sarcastic. I don't know 
>the internals of the GnuCash project.)
>
>Putting aside sarcasm, please remember that the GnuCash developers are 
>volunteers. They are donating their time and expertise to develop 
>GnuCash. There are not many of them. Yet they deliver regular releases,
>
>complete with bug fixes, and ever-increasing capabilities.  The 
>appropriate tone to take with them is one of gratitude.
>
>At the same time, the GnuCash developers have granted you a license to 
>GnuCash's source code. You are permitted to see the source code, to 
>diagnose the problem yourself, and to come up with a fix. If you wish, 
>you can donate the fix back to the GnuCash developers. Or, you could 
>make your own 5.6.1 release with the fix (but this is "forking", and
>you 
>should give the new software a different name).  If you own skills do 
>not extend to diagnosing and fixing the problem, you are free to hire a
>
>skilled software engineer, and have them diagnose, fix, and release a 
>version of the software for you. If you want to pay the software 
>engineer for an extended time, so that they can build up a relationship
>
>with the GnuCash developers, they might be able to take on the task of 
>making bug-fix releases. It could be your contribution to GnuCash. 
>Please, go right ahead!
>
>However, you may discover that this costs you more in time and money 
>than the 0.00 EUR which you have paid for GnuCash so far.
>
>Best regards,
>  —Jim DeLaHunt
>
>
>On 2024-04-24 15:24, Yann Salmon via gnucash-user wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> Le 23/04/2024 à 23:48, David Carlson a écrit :
>>> Sir,
>>>
>>> In my experience most financial institutions that offer QIF exports 
>>> also offer OFX format which will often go under a similar name.
>>
>> Alas, a hundred times alas, not always. Not in France, at least. They
>
>> should…
>>
>> I was able, however, to use . I
>
>> had to reverse all transactions (which is easier to do in the QIF, 
>> btw) because my bank seems to directly produce a QIF for my point of 
>> view while GnuCash seems to expect a QIF with transactions from the 
>> bank's point of view, but that is another story.
>>
>>
>>> If you need the QIF format then you will probably be stuck either 
>>> waiting for the 5.7 windows release or reverting either to an
>earlier 
>>> 5 series or maybe even 4 series if you have an older Linux based 
>>> machine as I do.
>>
>> Even though the Gnucash team has been releasing new versions at a 
>> steady and formidable rythm of one every 3 to 4 months, that still 
>> makes 4 months of non-working QIF import — downgrading is really not
>a 
>> straightforward route as software managers, for good reasons, make 
>> upgrading software easy and downgrading it harder (and one would have
>
>> to get the idea of doing so).
>>
>> While I admit I am not and have never been trained to be a software 
>> project manager, I did write some (extremely) modest pieces of 
>> software that are used by some other people, and the one thing I 
>> learned is : you do not break things, and if you do, you unbreak them
>
>> as quickly as possible.
>>
>> People can be patient with a desired functionnality not 

Re: [GNC] Please address broken QIF import

[David Carlson]

I may not remember correctly which recent seeming regressions were actually
which, but I know some were caused by changes to software that is
maintained by other developers and that the GnuCash developers have no
control over.  Then they were stuck between a rock and a hard place because
it would have required a huge investment to fix or work around something
that they didn't even break.

I am very happy that they work as hard as they do, with what little thanks
that they are given.




On Wed, Apr 24, 2024, 5:13 PM Jim DeLaHunt  wrote:

> On 2024-04-23 14:31, Yann Salmon via gnucash-user wrote:
> > Since there is, if I understand correctly, a fix to this major bug, I
> > really think a 5.6.1 release would be helpful.…
> On 2024-04-24 15:24, Yann Salmon via gnucash-user wrote:
> > …the one thing I learned is : you do not break things, and if you do,
> > you unbreak them as quickly as possible.…
> >
> > …I would be interested to know the bigger picture that I am obviously
> > missing in the decision not to publish a .1 that fixes a regression
> > (especially on a stable release) and allows Otto Normaluser and his
> > Grandma to quickly get back on their feet by simpling doing what they
> > know and have been educated to do : upgrading their software.
>
> Oh, I think I can help you see the bigger picture.
>
> Please run a report on your financial records in GnuCash. Look for all
> the payments you made to the GnuCash developers, in order to have the
> use of GnuCash software.  If your records are like mine, the total
> amount will be:
>
> 0.00 EUR (approximately 0.00 CAD, 0.00 USD, 0.00 CNY, at current
> exchange rates)
>
> I suspect that the GnuCash team has spent at least double that amount,
> and applied it to making a 5.6.1 release. It was sufficient for them to
> reach 0% of the way to completion. (I am being sarcastic. I don't know
> the internals of the GnuCash project.)
>
> Putting aside sarcasm, please remember that the GnuCash developers are
> volunteers. They are donating their time and expertise to develop
> GnuCash. There are not many of them. Yet they deliver regular releases,
> complete with bug fixes, and ever-increasing capabilities.  The
> appropriate tone to take with them is one of gratitude.
>
> At the same time, the GnuCash developers have granted you a license to
> GnuCash's source code. You are permitted to see the source code, to
> diagnose the problem yourself, and to come up with a fix. If you wish,
> you can donate the fix back to the GnuCash developers. Or, you could
> make your own 5.6.1 release with the fix (but this is "forking", and you
> should give the new software a different name).  If you own skills do
> not extend to diagnosing and fixing the problem, you are free to hire a
> skilled software engineer, and have them diagnose, fix, and release a
> version of the software for you. If you want to pay the software
> engineer for an extended time, so that they can build up a relationship
> with the GnuCash developers, they might be able to take on the task of
> making bug-fix releases. It could be your contribution to GnuCash.
> Please, go right ahead!
>
> However, you may discover that this costs you more in time and money
> than the 0.00 EUR which you have paid for GnuCash so far.
>
> Best regards,
>   —Jim DeLaHunt
>
>
> On 2024-04-24 15:24, Yann Salmon via gnucash-user wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > Le 23/04/2024 à 23:48, David Carlson a écrit :
> >> Sir,
> >>
> >> In my experience most financial institutions that offer QIF exports
> >> also offer OFX format which will often go under a similar name.
> >
> > Alas, a hundred times alas, not always. Not in France, at least. They
> > should…
> >
> > I was able, however, to use . I
> > had to reverse all transactions (which is easier to do in the QIF,
> > btw) because my bank seems to directly produce a QIF for my point of
> > view while GnuCash seems to expect a QIF with transactions from the
> > bank's point of view, but that is another story.
> >
> >
> >> If you need the QIF format then you will probably be stuck either
> >> waiting for the 5.7 windows release or reverting either to an earlier
> >> 5 series or maybe even 4 series if you have an older Linux based
> >> machine as I do.
> >
> > Even though the Gnucash team has been releasing new versions at a
> > steady and formidable rythm of one every 3 to 4 months, that still
> > makes 4 months of non-working QIF import — downgrading is really not a
> > straightforward route as software managers, for good reasons, make
> > upgrading software easy and downgrading it harder (and one would have
> > to get the idea of doing so).
> >
> > While I admit I am not and have never been trained to be a software
> > project manager, I did write some (extremely) modest pieces of
> > software that are used by some other people, and the one thing I
> > learned is : you do not break things, and if you do, you unbreak them
> > as quickly as possible.
> 

Re: [GNC] Please address broken QIF import

[Jim DeLaHunt]

On 2024-04-23 14:31, Yann Salmon via gnucash-user wrote:
Since there is, if I understand correctly, a fix to this major bug, I 
really think a 5.6.1 release would be helpful.… 

On 2024-04-24 15:24, Yann Salmon via gnucash-user wrote:
…the one thing I learned is : you do not break things, and if you do, 
you unbreak them as quickly as possible.…


…I would be interested to know the bigger picture that I am obviously 
missing in the decision not to publish a .1 that fixes a regression 
(especially on a stable release) and allows Otto Normaluser and his 
Grandma to quickly get back on their feet by simpling doing what they 
know and have been educated to do : upgrading their software. 


Oh, I think I can help you see the bigger picture.

Please run a report on your financial records in GnuCash. Look for all 
the payments you made to the GnuCash developers, in order to have the 
use of GnuCash software.  If your records are like mine, the total 
amount will be:


0.00 EUR (approximately 0.00 CAD, 0.00 USD, 0.00 CNY, at current 
exchange rates)


I suspect that the GnuCash team has spent at least double that amount, 
and applied it to making a 5.6.1 release. It was sufficient for them to 
reach 0% of the way to completion. (I am being sarcastic. I don't know 
the internals of the GnuCash project.)


Putting aside sarcasm, please remember that the GnuCash developers are 
volunteers. They are donating their time and expertise to develop 
GnuCash. There are not many of them. Yet they deliver regular releases, 
complete with bug fixes, and ever-increasing capabilities.  The 
appropriate tone to take with them is one of gratitude.


At the same time, the GnuCash developers have granted you a license to 
GnuCash's source code. You are permitted to see the source code, to 
diagnose the problem yourself, and to come up with a fix. If you wish, 
you can donate the fix back to the GnuCash developers. Or, you could 
make your own 5.6.1 release with the fix (but this is "forking", and you 
should give the new software a different name).  If you own skills do 
not extend to diagnosing and fixing the problem, you are free to hire a 
skilled software engineer, and have them diagnose, fix, and release a 
version of the software for you. If you want to pay the software 
engineer for an extended time, so that they can build up a relationship 
with the GnuCash developers, they might be able to take on the task of 
making bug-fix releases. It could be your contribution to GnuCash. 
Please, go right ahead!


However, you may discover that this costs you more in time and money 
than the 0.00 EUR which you have paid for GnuCash so far.


Best regards,
 —Jim DeLaHunt


On 2024-04-24 15:24, Yann Salmon via gnucash-user wrote:

Hello,

Le 23/04/2024 à 23:48, David Carlson a écrit :

Sir,

In my experience most financial institutions that offer QIF exports 
also offer OFX format which will often go under a similar name.


Alas, a hundred times alas, not always. Not in France, at least. They 
should…


I was able, however, to use . I 
had to reverse all transactions (which is easier to do in the QIF, 
btw) because my bank seems to directly produce a QIF for my point of 
view while GnuCash seems to expect a QIF with transactions from the 
bank's point of view, but that is another story.



If you need the QIF format then you will probably be stuck either 
waiting for the 5.7 windows release or reverting either to an earlier 
5 series or maybe even 4 series if you have an older Linux based 
machine as I do.


Even though the Gnucash team has been releasing new versions at a 
steady and formidable rythm of one every 3 to 4 months, that still 
makes 4 months of non-working QIF import — downgrading is really not a 
straightforward route as software managers, for good reasons, make 
upgrading software easy and downgrading it harder (and one would have 
to get the idea of doing so).


While I admit I am not and have never been trained to be a software 
project manager, I did write some (extremely) modest pieces of 
software that are used by some other people, and the one thing I 
learned is : you do not break things, and if you do, you unbreak them 
as quickly as possible.


People can be patient with a desired functionnality not being present 
yet, or even a new functionnality being buggy from its start, but not 
when something that had been working, and that they are thus using, 
stops working. It disrupts their workflow, it may mean that something 
they had to do by some date, and that they were expecting to do with 
the software, suddenly cannot be done as planned anymore : all in all, 
it makes the software look unreliable — if faults appear today, and 
are not fixed, then more and bigger faults could appear tomorrow. And 
I think this is especially true for a software like GnuCash that is 
important to users because it is usually great at doing important 
things like accountancy.


I would be 

Re: [GNC] Please address broken QIF import

[Yann Salmon via gnucash-user]

Hello,

Le 23/04/2024 à 23:48, David Carlson a écrit :

Sir,

In my experience most financial institutions that offer QIF exports also 
offer OFX format which will often go under a similar name.


Alas, a hundred times alas, not always. Not in France, at least. They 
should…


I was able, however, to use . I 
had to reverse all transactions (which is easier to do in the QIF, btw) 
because my bank seems to directly produce a QIF for my point of view 
while GnuCash seems to expect a QIF with transactions from the bank's 
point of view, but that is another story.



If you need the QIF format then you will probably be stuck either 
waiting for the 5.7 windows release or reverting either to an earlier 5 
series or maybe even 4 series if you have an older Linux based machine 
as I do.


Even though the Gnucash team has been releasing new versions at a steady 
and formidable rythm of one every 3 to 4 months, that still makes 4 
months of non-working QIF import — downgrading is really not a 
straightforward route as software managers, for good reasons, make 
upgrading software easy and downgrading it harder (and one would have to 
get the idea of doing so).


While I admit I am not and have never been trained to be a software 
project manager, I did write some (extremely) modest pieces of software 
that are used by some other people, and the one thing I learned is : you 
do not break things, and if you do, you unbreak them as quickly as possible.


People can be patient with a desired functionnality not being present 
yet, or even a new functionnality being buggy from its start, but not 
when something that had been working, and that they are thus using, 
stops working. It disrupts their workflow, it may mean that something 
they had to do by some date, and that they were expecting to do with the 
software, suddenly cannot be done as planned anymore : all in all, it 
makes the software look unreliable — if faults appear today, and are not 
fixed, then more and bigger faults could appear tomorrow. And I think 
this is especially true for a software like GnuCash that is important to 
users because it is usually great at doing important things like 
accountancy.


I would be interested to know the bigger picture that I am obviously 
missing in the decision not to publish a .1 that fixes a regression 
(especially on a stable release) and allows Otto Normaluser and his 
Grandma to quickly get back on their feet by simpling doing what they 
know and have been educated to do : upgrading their software.


--
Cordialement,

Yann Salmon
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Re: [GNC] Please address broken QIF import

[David Carlson]

Sir,

In my experience most financial institutions that offer QIF exports also
offer OFX format which will often go under a similar name.

I use the OFX downloads for several bank and credit card accounts.

If you need the QIF format then you will probably be stuck either waiting
for the 5.7 windows release or reverting either to an earlier 5 series or
maybe even 4 series if you have an older Linux based machine as I do.



On Tue, Apr 23, 2024, 2:32 PM Yann Salmon via gnucash-user <
gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> in Gnucash 5.6, importing banking transactions from a QIF file no longer
> works.
>
> Browsing this mailing list, I discovered this has been corrected but is
> only available by compiling the latest source or using a "nightly
> build", both of which are too convoluted for Otto Normaluser (I have
> been dabbing at flatpak and I think I might have managed to install some
> build from a recent commit, but running it seems also not straightforward).
>
> Downgrading to 5.5 is convoluted too -- only advanced GUI/CLI allow this.
>
> This also means that the GnuCash version available from the front page
> "does not work" — not being able to import your bank statements is kind
> of breaking.
>
> Since there is, if I understand correctly, a fix to this major bug, I
> really think a 5.6.1 release would be helpful.
>
> --
> Cordialement,
>
> Yann Salmon
> ___
> gnucash-user mailing list
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
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