Re: Accessing eci b-focus 312+ ADSL Router/Modem
I think that the last posting on this thread, the one that said that 'the b-focus was manufactured by a third party company in the far east' is lame as a conclusion. I sshd into the modem again and I found: # grep Bezeq etc/* versions:BOARD=B312p.Bezeq So the board was manufactured specifically for Bezeq. The visible end of the chain of broken licenses is Bezeq. If a complaint will be filed, then it will be filed against Bezeq. If Bezeq is innocent then it will be passed on to whoever it concerns. ALL consumer products are manufactured in Asia now, and the explanation about the 'third party' is really lame. *I* am not trying to go after this matter but whoever is, had better come up with a better explanation about it. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Accessing eci b-focus 312+ ADSL Router/Modem
I did some research and found that ECI bought these modems from another manufactorer in the far east (this is an OEM) so matters get a little more complicated. Who violated the GPL? it is either the original company whose identity I don't know yet or ECI. -- Ori Idan Peter wrote: On Sun, 5 Jun 2005, Matan Ziv-Av wrote: I.o.w., if the modules come on disk and are loaded at run time by a script it's ok. You know what ? That's exactly what they are doing. Unbelievable. No. If they are distributed together (as in the case of an embedded device), it is surely not mere aggregation. Well, what the f** is it then ? Did you know that the mips architecture has separate flash spaces for each item ? The kernel is flashed in a different chip than the compressed root fs for example. How do you measure the distance between them to define 'non-aggregated' ? mm ? inches ? microns if its a stacked flash ? Alan Cox is not OK with this. Harald Welte is not OK with this. Erik Andersen is not OK with this. Just to name a few. Ok. See what Linus shouts, loud and clear: http://www.ussg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0312.0/1014.html This makes it clearer. Andersen is OK with devices that include Busybox and comply with the GPL. He is very unhappy with devices that include Busybox and violate the GPL: http://busybox.net/shame.html Reading it up ... Yes, you can, if and only if it's linux or open source based and the license permits you to do that. You are allowed to charge money for it. You can copy it and sell the copies. This is explicitly specified in the GPL. The idea is Did you actually read the license? It does not say what you think it says. I thought that the part about copying is clear. The only people who decide how much it costs to compile, copy, print and mail an item are the distributors. How else could you explain the $100 price tag of a Suse or Red Hat box. But you can always go with cheapbytes. Try following this, it is not very hard. 1. The ECI router runs Linux. 2. ECI got a copy of Linux from Montavista. 3. Montavista gave ECI both binary and source, so they comply with the license. 4. ECI gave Matan a binary copy of Linux. 5. ECI did not give matan the corresponding source, and did not offer to give such source. 6. Therefore, they did not comply with the license. 7. Therefore, they copied Linux without having a legal right to do so. Hmm. Ok, I see the point. Maybe the license 'got lost' somewhere on the way. It would be interesting to know if there is something on the b-focus cdrom. I will look tomorrow if I have time. Funny, coming from someone who speaks about the GPL, but does not know what it says. Ok, I overreacted. Sorry. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Accessing eci b-focus 312+ ADSL Router/Modem
On Sun, Jun 05, 2005 at 08:25:24AM +0300, Gilad Ben-Yossef wrote: For example, to have a standaing in court, we actually need to find someone with code in the GPLed parts of that product - anyone here has code in the kernel/busybox/glibc? I have some code in the kernel. I never bothered to add my copyright statement to the files I worked on though. Cheers, Muli -- Muli Ben-Yehuda http://www.mulix.org | http://mulix.livejournal.com/ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Accessing eci b-focus 312+ ADSL Router/Modem
On Sun, Jun 05, 2005 at 08:25:24AM +0300, Gilad Ben-Yossef wrote: I agree that Bezeq is violating the GPL with their distribution of the router. Note that it is Bezeq, not ECI - you get the modem from them. I have already given the matter some thought as part of Hamamor activities. Perhaps the FSF should be asked for guidance how to handle this? = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Accessing eci b-focus 312+ ADSL Router/Modem
Peter wrote: On Sat, 4 Jun 2005, Matan Ziv-Av wrote: No it is not. There are many examples of kernel modules that provide support for modems, network drivers and other devices, which are NOT open source and NOT 'aggregations'. If you don't want to make your 802.11g wireless card work If the modules are distributed apart from the kernel itself (as is usually the case for the modules you speak of), then Linus allows this. Some other I.o.w., if the modules come on disk and are loaded at run time by a script it's ok. You know what ? That's exactly what they are doing. Unbelievable. What is 'distributed' in an embedded context ? An appliance is a device. So, if you build an embedded device that displays text (an eBook of a sort) that has built in the text of Gone with the wind (a copyrighted work) you are exempt from receiving a license to distribute Gone with the Wind from the holder of the copyright because it's an embedded system? Funny, must've missed that in my last read through copyright law... It contains everything that needs to be in it to make it work. Even the batteries sometimes. And Linus and the authors of the libraries and of the utilities (and of busybox) know this and they are ok with this, as far as an open source solution does not exist. Can you show me a single place where Linus says so? Because I can show you several places where Linus publicly states exaqctly the opposite... (http://kerneltrap.org/node/1735) More to the point, both the coyright holders of kernel code and of busybox have sued and won a very similar case of voilations of their rights in regard to same code. The LGPL was designed specifically to allow user applications to be linked against it for this purpose, and most libraries used in embedded are under LGPL. Busybox and the Linux kernel are not covered by the LGPL. http://www.mvista.com/previewkit/ This is a commercial firm that provides advanced linux development packages. Monta Vista provides source with every binary of a GPL program that they provide. What has that got to do with ECI? Hello ?! We are talking about an ECI router box that runs a Monta Vista Linux kernel and busybox, yes ? Don't lose focus on the original topic, I will not follow you in philosophical pursuits. The only problem is that regardless to Monte Vista or ECI, the person that did distribute the code in violation of the license terms is Bezeq. I'm pretty sure MonteVista did not violate the terms. I can only assume that ECI did not violate the terms (but I don't know anything about it because they did not distribute anything to me) but I *know* that Bezeq violated the terms of the license agreement. What I can or can not find on the internet is irrelevant to the fact that ECI have to do specific things if they want to distributes Linux or Busybox, and the other fact, that they do not do those things. This is ridiculous. What do you expect them to do, email you a cdrom ? What we accept them to do is follow the terms of the license to the letter. All it requires is that in the glossy paper manual that they ship with the unit they will add a paragraph that reads: This product contains software that is licensed under the terms of the GNU pulibc license. We hereby grant a non revocable right valid for 3 years since the shipment of this product to any third party to recieve the original source code for this work blah blah.. That's all. What do you mean what has this got to do with the ECI router ?!! Where do you think I got the information about Monta Vista on that box ?!! I ssh'd into it and typed cat /proc/version !!! You have no idea what you are talking about, you are interpreting things in ways that defy objective reality, and I think that threads like this can cause people who later find them in the archives to draw wrong conclusions as to the suitability of Linux for embedded appliances. Your kind of postings on this thread so far has been a disservice to Linux and to the spirit of the GPL in my opinion. Why do you want to shoot the messanger? all he is telling you is that these are the license terms. He happens to be right. Like it or not they are binding. Would you not prefer the people who consider to use Linux in an embedded environment to make an informed judgement? No one is claiming that Bezeq/ECI or MV did some horrible crime. We claim that due to what is probably an oversight somewhere an important paragraph has been ommited from the box manual. Because of this, Bezeq at least is now technically in violation of the copyright of the copyright holders of Busybox and the Linux kernel but I am sure that this have been done by mistake. Why are you so angry? Gilad = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Accessing eci b-focus 312+ ADSL Router/Modem
Matan Ziv-Av wrote: Try following this, it is not very hard. 1. The ECI router runs Linux. 2. ECI got a copy of Linux from Montavista. 3. Montavista gave ECI both binary and source, so they comply with the license. 4. ECI gave Matan a binary copy of Linux. Actually, it was Bezeq who gave you the binary, we don't know anything about ECI in this regard. Otherwise you are right. 5. ECI did not give matan the corresponding source, and did not offer to give such source. 6. Therefore, they did not comply with the license. 7. Therefore, they copied Linux without having a legal right to do so. Gilad = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Accessing eci b-focus 312+ ADSL Router/Modem
Gilad Ben-Yossef wrote: The only problem is that regardless to Monte Vista or ECI, the person that did distribute the code in violation of the license terms is Bezeq. While probably technically right, if Bezeq got the software from ECI, then ECI are obliged to give you the sources shoudl you ask for them (offer valid to any third party). I think it is pointless to come after Bezeq if you can contact ECI and get the sources. Shachar -- Shachar Shemesh Lingnu Open Source Consulting ltd. Have you backed up today's work? http://www.lingnu.com/backup.html = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Accessing eci b-focus 312+ ADSL Router/Modem
On Mon, 6 Jun 2005, Shachar Shemesh wrote: Gilad Ben-Yossef wrote: The only problem is that regardless to Monte Vista or ECI, the person that did distribute the code in violation of the license terms is Bezeq. While probably technically right, if Bezeq got the software from ECI, then ECI are obliged to give you the sources shoudl you ask for them (offer valid to any third party). I think it is pointless to come after Bezeq if you can contact ECI and get the sources. Unless ECI gave Bezeq a copy of the source together with the binary (3a), in which case they have no further obligations. -- Matan Ziv-Av. [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Accessing eci b-focus 312+ ADSL Router/Modem
On Fri, Jun 03, 2005 at 06:58:37PM -0300, Roberto S. Meyer wrote: They often use 10.0.0.1, 192.168.1.1, 192.168.100.1, c. The two 312's I played with had 10.0.0.138, the same as the Alcatel STH (and contrary to ECI 270, which had IIRC 192.168.1.1). -- Didi = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Accessing eci b-focus 312+ ADSL Router/Modem
Aharon Schkolnik wrote: Hi. Just received an eci b-focus 312+ ADSL Router/Modem. It is installed, configured, up and running. However, I would like to be able to play around with it, and don't know how to access it. The default IP for the modem is 10.0.0.138, the username Admin (which has uid 0, just like root) default password is Admin. Note that the root file system is squashfs which is a compressed read only file system used in embedded devices to save flash space, so you can change anything in the device unless you re-flash the unit. You can however control anything that can be controled via the http GUI - just go to http://10.0.0.138 (username and password are the same). YOu can even save an XML configuration file from the device, edit it and upload it back to the device using the HTTP GUI interface. It's sort of funny in a way that it runs Linux - think for example how many Israeli high ranking Microsoft execs connect to the internet using this Bezeq provided Linux box and don't even realise it... :-) Gilad = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Accessing eci b-focus 312+ ADSL Router/Modem
And not only that, but you can easily change the config to make the modem connect by itself and maintain the connection. Kinda like you hack the Alcatel SpeedTouch to become Pro, but with absolutely legit way. Please mind that username and password ARE case-sensitive. - Original Message - From: Gilad Ben-Yossef [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Aharon Schkolnik [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Linux-IL linux-il@linux.org.il Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 10:10 AM Subject: Re: Accessing eci b-focus 312+ ADSL Router/Modem Aharon Schkolnik wrote: Hi. Just received an eci b-focus 312+ ADSL Router/Modem. It is installed, configured, up and running. However, I would like to be able to play around with it, and don't know how to access it. The default IP for the modem is 10.0.0.138, the username Admin (which has uid 0, just like root) default password is Admin. Note that the root file system is squashfs which is a compressed read only file system used in embedded devices to save flash space, so you can change anything in the device unless you re-flash the unit. You can however control anything that can be controled via the http GUI - just go to http://10.0.0.138 (username and password are the same). YOu can even save an XML configuration file from the device, edit it and upload it back to the device using the HTTP GUI interface. It's sort of funny in a way that it runs Linux - think for example how many Israeli high ranking Microsoft execs connect to the internet using this Bezeq provided Linux box and don't even realise it... :-) Gilad = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Accessing eci b-focus 312+ ADSL Router/Modem
On Sat, 4 Jun 2005, Gilad Ben-Yossef wrote: It's sort of funny in a way that it runs Linux - think for example how many Israeli high ranking Microsoft execs connect to the internet using this Bezeq provided Linux box and don't even realise it... :-) I guess they would actually be happy, if they knew. The modem is distributed in violation of the GPL. There is no mention of the GPL, Linux or Busybox, even though binaries of Linux and Busybox are included. There is also no source included, and no written offer to provide the source. -- Matan Ziv-Av. [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Accessing eci b-focus 312+ ADSL Router/Modem
On Sat, Jun 04, 2005 at 11:10:49AM +0300, Gilad Ben-Yossef wrote: It's sort of funny in a way that it runs Linux - think for example how many Israeli high ranking Microsoft execs connect to the internet using this Bezeq provided Linux box and don't even realise it... :-) I'm not sure about the funny part. Here is why: are we entitled to have the source code? Do we have it? Taking into account who the owner of ECI is, I believe the questions whether we have the right to get the source code and whether this right is fulfilled is important. In view of this, stating that it uses software for which the source code should be freely available should be made with great care. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Accessing eci b-focus 312+ ADSL Router/Modem
http://router User: Admin Pass: see cdrom manual, usually 1234 the browser must support javascript and frames. Note: user is Admin not admin. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Accessing eci b-focus 312+ ADSL Router/Modem
On Fri, 3 Jun 2005, Roberto S. Meyer wrote: The problem is you must investigate what IP your modem has. This info is provided by the modem's manual. They often use 10.0.0.1, 192.168.1.1, 192.168.100.1, c. You need to find this info first and setup your ethernet card in the same network. No, you need to use DHCP to allow the router to give you an IP. b-focus 312+ comes at 10.0.0.138 by default and the ip of the first machine to connect is 10.0.0.1 from router dhcp. The router runs dns proxy and it appears as router on the internal network. I.e. http://router will go there. PLEASE read the user manual on pdf on the attached cdrom. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Accessing eci b-focus 312+ ADSL Router/Modem
On Sat, 4 Jun 2005, Matan Ziv-Av wrote: On Sat, 4 Jun 2005, Gilad Ben-Yossef wrote: It's sort of funny in a way that it runs Linux - think for example how many Israeli high ranking Microsoft execs connect to the internet using this Bezeq provided Linux box and don't even realise it... :-) I guess they would actually be happy, if they knew. The modem is distributed in violation of the GPL. There is no mention of the GPL, Linux or Busybox, even though binaries of Linux and Busybox are included. There is also no source included, and no written offer to provide the source. This is interesting. I have not thought of it. Maybe this should be picked up in another forum ? Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Accessing eci b-focus 312+ ADSL Router/Modem
On Sat, 4 Jun 2005, Shaul Karl wrote: On Sat, Jun 04, 2005 at 11:10:49AM +0300, Gilad Ben-Yossef wrote: It's sort of funny in a way that it runs Linux - think for example how many Israeli high ranking Microsoft execs connect to the internet using this Bezeq provided Linux box and don't even realise it... :-) I'm not sure about the funny part. Here is why: are we entitled to have the source code? Do we have it? If it is an unmodified GPL version of well-known code like the kernel and busybox then there is no need to provide the source since the binaries are 'stock'. You can d/l the source elsewhere. If they use proprietary programs then they are proprietary and that's that, and it's legal, and they do not need to publish any source. Taking into account who the owner of ECI is, I believe the questions whether we have the right to get the source code and whether this right is fulfilled is important. In view of this, stating that it uses software for which the source code should be freely available should be made with great care. What is that supposed to mean ? Who cares who owns ECI ? There are laws about IP and they probably respect them, else there would have been a scandal a long time ago. The version of linux that runs in the b-focus boxes seems to be from montavista who offer support and more. The source for the kernel and all GPLd parts MUST be available. The source for proprietary programs they use in the box, must not. So it's really easy. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Accessing eci b-focus 312+ ADSL Router/Modem
On Sat, 4 Jun 2005, Peter wrote: On Sat, 4 Jun 2005, Shaul Karl wrote: On Sat, Jun 04, 2005 at 11:10:49AM +0300, Gilad Ben-Yossef wrote: It's sort of funny in a way that it runs Linux - think for example how many Israeli high ranking Microsoft execs connect to the internet using this Bezeq provided Linux box and don't even realise it... :-) I'm not sure about the funny part. Here is why: are we entitled to have the source code? Do we have it? If it is an unmodified GPL version of well-known code like the kernel and busybox then there is no need to provide the source since the binaries are 'stock'. You can d/l the source elsewhere. It is best that you read the GPL, before you give opinions about it. The license says nothing about well-known code. If you commercially distribute a binary created from a GPL source to someone, you must either include a copy of the source (3a) or a written offer to provide the source (3b). If they use proprietary programs then they are proprietary and that's that, and it's legal, and they do not need to publish any source. Only if the whole package is mere aggregation of the GPL and non-GPL parts. It is quite clear that a kernel module is a derived work of the kernel, and that the module exception from Linus does not cover modules that are distributed together with the kernel bianry they are supposed to run with. -- Matan Ziv-Av. [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Accessing eci b-focus 312+ ADSL Router/Modem
On Sat, 4 Jun 2005, Matan Ziv-Av wrote: If it is an unmodified GPL version of well-known code like the kernel and busybox then there is no need to provide the source since the binaries are 'stock'. You can d/l the source elsewhere. It is best that you read the GPL, before you give opinions about it. The license says nothing about well-known code. If you commercially distribute a binary created from a GPL source to someone, you must either include a copy of the source (3a) or a written offer to provide the source (3b). Or you must make it available to the user on request. On your website, or someone else's. And it IS available. The GPL does not say anywhere that the distributor must provide a CS degree with hardware consultation and assistance in building a complex aggregate hardware/software system. Nor a script for automatic building. The code is out there, the datasheets are out there, you can buy bare development boards (for ~$10k fyi), go get them and do it yourself if you like. If they use proprietary programs then they are proprietary and that's that, and it's legal, and they do not need to publish any source. Only if the whole package is mere aggregation of the GPL and non-GPL parts. It is quite clear that a kernel module is a derived work of the kernel, and that the module exception from Linus does not cover modules that are distributed together with the kernel bianry they are supposed to run with. No it is not. There are many examples of kernel modules that provide support for modems, network drivers and other devices, which are NOT open source and NOT 'aggregations'. If you don't want to make your 802.11g wireless card work - don't use the modules! Suse, Red Hat and others regularly ship with such modules in the distribution. Some graphics card drivers (like nvidia) are notorious for this. Most 802.11g drivers available run the original (win32) driver in an emulation because they are closed source. And to top it all, you do not own the router, it is rented. So you are a 'user' and have no rights on the hardware or software in it, nor has anyone an obligation to show you, as a user, anything. It's nice enough they did not hide the ssh, ftp and telnet interfaces, or alter the kernel /proc filesystem to hide its origins. I.e. they repect the IP. Would you expect to be able to see the source code of the interacting application in an ATM banking machine if it runs linux inside ? Want to bet that qualified Bezeq service personnel have manufacturer contacts and source access if they need it ? Again, the distributor for the linux used in that box seems to be Monta Vista. If you have a problem with the way it works or is distributed, write to them. Url: http://www.mvista.com/. Kits are available from: http://www.mvista.com/previewkit/ This is a commercial firm that provides advanced linux development packages. Here are a couple of links on embedded linux: http://lwn.net/Articles/17953/ Picture player ? Axis single chip embedded linux (is that *bundling*) or not ? Much more at linuxdevices.com . Just to cool you off: 1 dozen phones powered by linux: http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT9423084269.html I have no connection with ECI or Monta Vista. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Accessing eci b-focus 312+ ADSL Router/Modem
On Sat, 4 Jun 2005, Matan Ziv-Av wrote: It is best that you read the GPL, before you give opinions about it. The license says nothing about well-known code. If you commercially distribute a binary created from a GPL source to someone, you must either include a copy of the source (3a) or a written offer to provide the source (3b). I'll read it (again) after all these guys read it: http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT4936596231.html Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Accessing eci b-focus 312+ ADSL Router/Modem
On Sat, 4 Jun 2005, Peter wrote: On Sat, 4 Jun 2005, Matan Ziv-Av wrote: If it is an unmodified GPL version of well-known code like the kernel and busybox then there is no need to provide the source since the binaries are 'stock'. You can d/l the source elsewhere. It is best that you read the GPL, before you give opinions about it. The license says nothing about well-known code. If you commercially distribute a binary created from a GPL source to someone, you must either include a copy of the source (3a) or a written offer to provide the source (3b). Or you must make it available to the user on request. On your website, or someone else's. And it IS available. The GPL does not say anywhere that the Why do you invent something that is not written in the GPL? The only provision in the GPL for distributing the program in object code or executable form is in section 3. This section requires One of two things - source included (including scripts used to build), Or written promise to provide source. distributor must provide a CS degree with hardware consultation and assistance in building a complex aggregate hardware/software system. Nor a script for automatic building. The code is out there, the datasheets are out Did you actually read the GPL? there, you can buy bare development boards (for ~$10k fyi), go get them and do it yourself if you like. What has that got to do with the GPL? If they use proprietary programs then they are proprietary and that's that, and it's legal, and they do not need to publish any source. Only if the whole package is mere aggregation of the GPL and non-GPL parts. It is quite clear that a kernel module is a derived work of the kernel, and that the module exception from Linus does not cover modules that are distributed together with the kernel bianry they are supposed to run with. No it is not. There are many examples of kernel modules that provide support for modems, network drivers and other devices, which are NOT open source and NOT 'aggregations'. If you don't want to make your 802.11g wireless card work If the modules are distributed apart from the kernel itself (as is usually the case for the modules you speak of), then Linus allows this. Some other kernel specifically do not allow this, so anyone who distributes such modules is at risk. For modules that come together with the kernel, as is the case with the ECI router, this is not allowed by Linus' exception, nor by anything else. - don't use the modules! Suse, Red Hat and others regularly ship with such modules in the distribution. Some graphics card drivers (like nvidia) are notorious for this. Most 802.11g drivers available run the original (win32) driver in an emulation because they are closed source. And to top it all, you do not own the router, it is rented. So you are a 'user' and have no rights on the hardware or software in it, nor has anyone So I can create copies of CDs I buy in the store, and rent them to other people? ECI do not have a right to rent Linux kernel or Busybox, except if they follow the GPL, which they do not. an obligation to show you, as a user, anything. It's nice enough they did not hide the ssh, ftp and telnet interfaces, or alter the kernel /proc filesystem to hide its origins. I.e. they repect the IP. Would you expect to be able to see the source code of the interacting application in an ATM banking machine if it runs linux inside ? Want to bet that qualified Bezeq service personnel have manufacturer contacts and source access if they need it ? Again, the distributor for the linux used in that box seems to be Monta Vista. If you have a problem with the way it works or is distributed, write to them. Url: http://www.mvista.com/. Kits are available from: http://www.mvista.com/previewkit/ This is a commercial firm that provides advanced linux development packages. Monta Vista provides source with every binary of a GPL program that they provide. What has that got to do with ECI? What I can or can not find on the internet is irrelevant to the fact that ECI have to do specific things if they want to distributes Linux or Busybox, and the other fact, that they do not do those things. Here are a couple of links on embedded linux: http://lwn.net/Articles/17953/ Picture player ? Axis single chip embedded linux (is that *bundling*) or not ? Much more at linuxdevices.com . Just to cool you off: 1 dozen phones powered by linux: http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT9423084269.html I have no connection with ECI or Monta Vista. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Matan Ziv-Av. [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to
Re: Accessing eci b-focus 312+ ADSL Router/Modem
On Sat, 4 Jun 2005, Peter wrote: On Sat, 4 Jun 2005, Matan Ziv-Av wrote: It is best that you read the GPL, before you give opinions about it. The license says nothing about well-known code. If you commercially distribute a binary created from a GPL source to someone, you must either include a copy of the source (3a) or a written offer to provide the source (3b). I'll read it (again) after all these guys read it: Please read it if you discuss it, even if there are other people who violate it. http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT4936596231.html Did you ever see a Zaurus package? It includes a CD that includes source for all GPL programs that are included with the Zaurus. I'll bet that Motorola phones do as well. Amstrad do not include source with the E3, and are in violation of the GPL. -- Matan Ziv-Av. [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Accessing eci b-focus 312+ ADSL Router/Modem
On Sat, 4 Jun 2005, Matan Ziv-Av wrote: No it is not. There are many examples of kernel modules that provide support for modems, network drivers and other devices, which are NOT open source and NOT 'aggregations'. If you don't want to make your 802.11g wireless card work If the modules are distributed apart from the kernel itself (as is usually the case for the modules you speak of), then Linus allows this. Some other I.o.w., if the modules come on disk and are loaded at run time by a script it's ok. You know what ? That's exactly what they are doing. Unbelievable. What is 'distributed' in an embedded context ? An appliance is a device. It contains everything that needs to be in it to make it work. Even the batteries sometimes. And Linus and the authors of the libraries and of the utilities (and of busybox) know this and they are ok with this, as far as an open source solution does not exist. The LGPL was designed specifically to allow user applications to be linked against it for this purpose, and most libraries used in embedded are under LGPL. kernel specifically do not allow this, so anyone who distributes such modules is at risk. For modules that come together with the kernel, as is the case with the ECI router, this is not allowed by Linus' exception, nor by anything else. Would you mind my hearing this from Linus ? Because he knows about these embedded systems, and endorses them as far as I know. And the author of Busybox is quoted on linuxdevices.com as endorsing at least one of the products because it (the built in busybox) lets him work so well with it. So I can create copies of CDs I buy in the store, and rent them to other people? ECI do not have a right to rent Linux kernel or Busybox, except if they follow the GPL, which they do not. Yes, you can, if and only if it's linux or open source based and the license permits you to do that. You are allowed to charge money for it. You can copy it and sell the copies. This is explicitly specified in the GPL. The idea is that open competition will push the price down to the range where the product is sustainable. Be the price bandwidth and time for download, media, printing and distribution, added value, or all of these things. And it works that way because that's the way it was designed to work. In fact, that is the WHOLE POINT of it. http://www.mvista.com/previewkit/ This is a commercial firm that provides advanced linux development packages. Monta Vista provides source with every binary of a GPL program that they provide. What has that got to do with ECI? Hello ?! We are talking about an ECI router box that runs a Monta Vista Linux kernel and busybox, yes ? Don't lose focus on the original topic, I will not follow you in philosophical pursuits. What I can or can not find on the internet is irrelevant to the fact that ECI have to do specific things if they want to distributes Linux or Busybox, and the other fact, that they do not do those things. This is ridiculous. What do you expect them to do, email you a cdrom ? What do you mean what has this got to do with the ECI router ?!! Where do you think I got the information about Monta Vista on that box ?!! I ssh'd into it and typed cat /proc/version !!! You have no idea what you are talking about, you are interpreting things in ways that defy objective reality, and I think that threads like this can cause people who later find them in the archives to draw wrong conclusions as to the suitability of Linux for embedded appliances. Your kind of postings on this thread so far has been a disservice to Linux and to the spirit of the GPL in my opinion. Peter PS: One more thread like this and I will unsubscribe again, as I did years ago. I am a member of about 5 mailing lists in 3 countries and there is only one that has flamefests over cold water. Guess which. I have been using Linux as a desktop for 9 years now, talked to a lot of people over the internet, but there is only one place where such discussions are possible. Enough is enough. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Accessing eci b-focus 312+ ADSL Router/Modem
From the GPL: 2, bottom: In addition, mere aggregation of another work not based on the Program with the Program (or with a work based on the Program) on a volume of a storage or distribution medium does not bring the other work under the scope of this License. From Monta Vista FAQ: http://www.mvista.com/products/faq.html#q9 ECI can probably supply a source set for all gpl parts of the distribution if asked. That would be simply a copy of the media they received from Monta Vista. Q9 in that FAQ answers your module question. The key to using GPL without IP woes is to use *unmodified* GPL systems and build applications and kernel modules that run together with them, without modifying them. I don't see any problem with that, ECI seems to have done that. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Accessing eci b-focus 312+ ADSL Router/Modem
On Saturday 04 June 2005 20:47, Peter wrote: On Sat, 4 Jun 2005, Matan Ziv-Av wrote: If you commercially distribute a binary created from a GPL source to someone, you must either include a copy of the source (3a) or a written offer to provide the source (3b). Or you must make it available to the user on request. On your website, or someone else's. 1. Peter you forgot that in any case a copy of the LICENSE is required to be *provided* to the user (so he knows his rights). I just looked in the provided manual and there is no mention of it -- just the usual blurb about the rights of said company. A quick look at the product page on the company site hasn't shown up any mention either. 2. You are missleading. Of course they may point you to any web site they want but they didn't point to *any* web site for the source. As Matan correctly quoted -- the company must provide a *written* offer (valid for at least 3 years) to provide this source -- it's the company responsibility to provide the user with this details. There are many examples of kernel modules that provide support for modems, network drivers and other devices, which are NOT open source and NOT 'aggregations'. But judge, there are many who break the law, I *cannot* be guilty... If you don't want to make your 802.11g wireless card work - Good that you brought that example -- check your facts: 1. Head on to http://www.linksys.com/splash/54g_splash.asp 2. Press the support link 3. Look carefully at the GPL notice and start reading Cisco (after buying Linksys) had to clean up the errors of their predecessors. And to top it all, you do not own the router, it is rented. So you are a 'user' and have no rights on the hardware or software in it, nor has anyone an obligation to show you, as a user, anything. Hmmm... the one who distribute it (Bezeq) should have a valid license for the code and must be able to provide it. It's nice enough they did not hide the ssh, ftp and telnet interfaces, or alter the kernel /proc filesystem to hide its origins. I.e. they repect the IP. Hiding is very bad strategy when you violate copyright law: http://gpl-violations.org/news/20050414-fortinet-injunction.html BTW: AFAIK in the US the difference between unknowingly violating someones copyrights and *knowingly* infringing is the difference between a maximum 150,000 $ per infrigment and a maximum 5 years in jail. Would you expect to be able to see the source code of the interacting application in an ATM banking machine if it runs linux inside ? Want to bet that qualified Bezeq service personnel have manufacturer contacts and source access if they need it ? Did anyone say that the ATM source was derived from GPL'ed code? Why give false examples when a concrete case is shown? Axis single chip embedded linux (is that *bundling*) or not ? Funny you mention them, Axis port of the Linux kernel to their architecture is now an official part of Linux kernel for some time (the cris architecture) -- was this example meant to show contribution of companies to Linux or something else -- I'm puzzled. We did see violations of GPL by large and small companies. We are not completely *sure* that this case is a violation: - We first need to check our facts thoroughly. - Than think how to approach this -- Generally I do like the FSF way of handling these things -- trying to resolv these issues peacefully with the company lawyers (e.g: Cisco case). As we all witnessed though, sometimes a Harald Welte type of action is needed: http://gpl-violations.org/about.html Cheers, -- Oron Peled Voice/Fax: +972-4-8228492 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.actcom.co.il/~oron ICQ UIN: 16527398 When you understand UNIX, you will understand the world. When you understand NTyou will understand NT - Richard Thieme = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Accessing eci b-focus 312+ ADSL Router/Modem
Oh, and speaking of Monta Vista making source accessible: http://www.mvista.com/previewkit/index.html To download the MontaVista Linux Preview Kit, fill out the simple registration form below and you will be sent a download location and installation key. If you have problems downloading or using the Preview Kit, please read our Preview Kit FAQ. Thank you for your interest in MontaVista Software. (followed by 2 They seem to want to know a lot of things about me to allow a download. Maybe Matan has a point here. What can be done to clarify the problem ? I have sent a request to MV for their preview pack. I will see what happens. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Accessing eci b-focus 312+ ADSL Router/Modem
On Sat, 4 Jun 2005, Peter wrote: On Sat, 4 Jun 2005, Matan Ziv-Av wrote: No it is not. There are many examples of kernel modules that provide support for modems, network drivers and other devices, which are NOT open source and NOT 'aggregations'. If you don't want to make your 802.11g wireless card work If the modules are distributed apart from the kernel itself (as is usually the case for the modules you speak of), then Linus allows this. Some other I.o.w., if the modules come on disk and are loaded at run time by a script it's ok. You know what ? That's exactly what they are doing. Unbelievable. No. If they are distributed together (as in the case of an embedded device), it is surely not mere aggregation. What is 'distributed' in an embedded context ? An appliance is a device. It contains everything that needs to be in it to make it work. Even the Please read some theory of copyright law before puting your foot in your mouth. In order to create the device (the specific modem that is cuerrently in my closet), they made a copy a compiled linux kernel. By law they are not allowed to make such a copy, except if Linus (and all other linux developers, naturally) allows them. Linus allowed them under specific conditions, which they fail to meet, so they distribute without permissions. batteries sometimes. And Linus and the authors of the libraries and of the utilities (and of busybox) know this and they are ok with this, as far as an Alan Cox is not OK with this. Harald Welte is not OK with this. Erik Andersen is not OK with this. Just to name a few. kernel specifically do not allow this, so anyone who distributes such modules is at risk. For modules that come together with the kernel, as is the case with the ECI router, this is not allowed by Linus' exception, nor by anything else. Would you mind my hearing this from Linus ? Because he knows about these See what Linus shouts, loud and clear: http://www.ussg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0312.0/1014.html embedded systems, and endorses them as far as I know. And the author of Busybox is quoted on linuxdevices.com as endorsing at least one of the products because it (the built in busybox) lets him work so well with it. Andersen is OK with devices that include Busybox and comply with the GPL. He is very unhappy with devices that include Busybox and violate the GPL: http://busybox.net/shame.html So I can create copies of CDs I buy in the store, and rent them to other people? ECI do not have a right to rent Linux kernel or Busybox, except if they follow the GPL, which they do not. Yes, you can, if and only if it's linux or open source based and the license permits you to do that. You are allowed to charge money for it. You can copy it and sell the copies. This is explicitly specified in the GPL. The idea is Did you actually read the license? It does not say what you think it says. Monta Vista provides source with every binary of a GPL program that they provide. What has that got to do with ECI? Hello ?! We are talking about an ECI router box that runs a Monta Vista Linux kernel and busybox, yes ? Don't lose focus on the original topic, I will not follow you in philosophical pursuits. Try following this, it is not very hard. 1. The ECI router runs Linux. 2. ECI got a copy of Linux from Montavista. 3. Montavista gave ECI both binary and source, so they comply with the license. 4. ECI gave Matan a binary copy of Linux. 5. ECI did not give matan the corresponding source, and did not offer to give such source. 6. Therefore, they did not comply with the license. 7. Therefore, they copied Linux without having a legal right to do so. This is ridiculous. What do you expect them to do, email you a cdrom ? What do you mean what has this got to do with the ECI router ?!! Where do you think I got the information about Monta Vista on that box ?!! I ssh'd into it and typed cat /proc/version !!! I expect them to include on the CD, the source that the binaries were made of. But it does not matter what I expect, since I have no standing. Here is what two people that could sue them and win expect: http://www.gpl-violations.org/faq/vendor-faq.html http://busybox.net/license.html You have no idea what you are talking about, you are interpreting things in Funny, coming from someone who speaks about the GPL, but does not know what it says. -- Matan Ziv-Av. [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Accessing eci b-focus 312+ ADSL Router/Modem
On Saturday 04 June 2005 23:22, Peter wrote: Would you mind my hearing this from Linus ? Because he knows about these embedded systems, and endorses them as far as I know. You keep mixing aggregation and doing derived work. For people who'd rather read what he says and not what you *claim* that he says: Look no further than your kernel source tree in the Documentation/COPYING.modules file. A copy for kernel source challenged: http://people.redhat.com/arjanv/COPYING.modules And the author of... Looks more and more like a hearsay to me... You are allowed to charge money for it Sure, as long as you *FOLLOW THE LICENSE* which is the whole point we discuss -- it appears ECI did not follow it! This is ridiculous. What do you expect them to do, email you a cdrom ? On the first page of the user manual I currently read it says (in Hebrew): 2004 (c) all rights reserved to ECI Telecom Ltd. All rights Can you imagine now what is expected of them? They should respect other people copyrights just as they respect their own. What do you mean what has this got to do with the ECI router ?!! Where do you think I got the information about Monta Vista on that box ?!! I ssh'd into it and typed cat /proc/version !!! My mother does not know how to ssh and the only thing she knows about a cat is to feed them. Still the company is *required* by the GPL to notify her about the rights she get with GPL'ed source. You have no idea what you are talking about, you are interpreting things in ways that defy objective reality, and I think that threads like this can cause people who later find them in the archives to draw wrong conclusions as to the suitability of Linux for embedded appliances. Do you try to suggest that people should forgo law violations just becasue these companies do us the great favour to use our beloved OS? PS: One more thread like this and I will unsubscribe again, as I did years ago. Your subscription, your call. Just to make things clear, I'm not flaming you personally (don't even know you) -- just try to correct the factual errors that other people may read. Cheers, -- Oron Peled Voice/Fax: +972-4-8228492 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.actcom.co.il/~oron ICQ UIN: 16527398 Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. (H. Spencer) = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Accessing eci b-focus 312+ ADSL Router/Modem
On Sun, 5 Jun 2005, Oron Peled wrote: Or you must make it available to the user on request. On your website, or someone else's. 1. Peter you forgot that in any case a copy of the LICENSE is required to be *provided* to the user (so he knows his rights). I just looked in the provided manual and there is no mention of it -- just the usual blurb about the rights of said company. A quick look at the product page on the company site hasn't shown up any mention either. Correct. And I just looked and there is no license on the box either (at least none I could find with ls -lR). 2. You are missleading. Of course they may point you to any web site they want but they didn't point to *any* web site for the source. As Matan correctly quoted -- the company must provide a *written* offer (valid for at least 3 years) to provide this source -- it's the company responsibility to provide the user with this details. Ok, but imho this is a nuance. The information is there if you want to find it. There are many examples of kernel modules that provide support for modems, network drivers and other devices, which are NOT open source and NOT 'aggregations'. But judge, there are many who break the law, I *cannot* be guilty... Of course not. If you don't want to make your 802.11g wireless card work - Good that you brought that example -- check your facts: 1. Head on to http://www.linksys.com/splash/54g_splash.asp 2. Press the support link 3. Look carefully at the GPL notice and start reading Cisco (after buying Linksys) had to clean up the errors of their predecessors. You mean here: http://www.linksys.com/support/default.asp . Ok. So they fixed it. And to top it all, you do not own the router, it is rented. So you are a 'user' and have no rights on the hardware or software in it, nor has anyone an obligation to show you, as a user, anything. Hmmm... the one who distribute it (Bezeq) should have a valid license for the code and must be able to provide it. Together with about 500 other things that you only find out about in the phone bill after the fact. At least they are consequent ? ;-( It's nice enough they did not hide the ssh, ftp and telnet interfaces, or alter the kernel /proc filesystem to hide its origins. I.e. they repect the IP. Hiding is very bad strategy when you violate copyright law: http://gpl-violations.org/news/20050414-fortinet-injunction.html BTW: AFAIK in the US the difference between unknowingly violating someones copyrights and *knowingly* infringing is the difference between a maximum 150,000 $ per infrigment and a maximum 5 years in jail. And in one-diskette countries ? I even have a windows 95 license (that's how long ago I changed over to Linux). I don't know a lot of people who have one too. Some asked to borrow mine. No thanks. At least they don't want the WfWg3.11 license anymore, it's too old. Would you expect to be able to see the source code of the interacting application in an ATM banking machine if it runs linux inside ? Want to bet that qualified Bezeq service personnel have manufacturer contacts and source access if they need it ? Did anyone say that the ATM source was derived from GPL'ed code? Why give false examples when a concrete case is shown? Agree. I overdid it. Axis single chip embedded linux (is that *bundling*) or not ? Funny you mention them, Axis port of the Linux kernel to their architecture is now an official part of Linux kernel for some time (the cris architecture) -- was this example meant to show contribution of companies to Linux or something else -- I'm puzzled. I think that it is the easiest way to ensure your IP at low cost. Once it's a part of the better borg it takes care of itself in a way. We did see violations of GPL by large and small companies. We are not completely *sure* that this case is a violation: - We first need to check our facts thoroughly. - Than think how to approach this -- Generally I do like the FSF way of handling these things -- trying to resolv these issues peacefully with the company lawyers (e.g: Cisco case). As we all witnessed though, sometimes a Harald Welte type of action is needed: http://gpl-violations.org/about.html Ok, I will follow this. Meanwhile I got the password from MV and am getting the source. It is accompanied by a password and the equivalent of an nda. I intend to respect it but what if I write code based on it (it being an application designed to work with that code) and distribute it (on a small scale). Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Accessing eci b-focus 312+ ADSL Router/Modem
Matan Ziv-Av wrote: - don't use the modules! Suse, Red Hat and others regularly ship with such modules in the distribution. Some graphics card drivers (like nvidia) are notorious for this. Most 802.11g drivers available run the original (win32) driver in an emulation because they are closed source. And to top it all, you do not own the router, it is rented. So you are a 'user' and have no rights on the hardware or software in it, nor has anyone So I can create copies of CDs I buy in the store, and rent them to other people? ECI do not have a right to rent Linux kernel or Busybox, except if they follow the GPL, which they do not. Well, it is perfectly legal to lend (or even rent) your physical original CD to other people. And you did get ECI's original box - not a copy made by Bezeq (and you do rent it from bezeq, not eci, right?) Now, I don't want to be blamed for keeping this thread alive, so please don't post any IP-law related replys to the list. It's just that I've been wondering: do they (bezeq) offer you the option to BUY the 312 box? I know I bought my Alcatel from them at the time (this option was available, it's just that not many people chose to take it). p.s. is there a list that would welcome these threads? Maybe we should open e.g. iplaw-il/holyflamewars-il (this is semi-serious, but I might actually consider subscribing) = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Accessing eci b-focus 312+ ADSL Router/Modem
On Sun, 5 Jun 2005, Matan Ziv-Av wrote: I.o.w., if the modules come on disk and are loaded at run time by a script it's ok. You know what ? That's exactly what they are doing. Unbelievable. No. If they are distributed together (as in the case of an embedded device), it is surely not mere aggregation. Well, what the f** is it then ? Did you know that the mips architecture has separate flash spaces for each item ? The kernel is flashed in a different chip than the compressed root fs for example. How do you measure the distance between them to define 'non-aggregated' ? mm ? inches ? microns if its a stacked flash ? Alan Cox is not OK with this. Harald Welte is not OK with this. Erik Andersen is not OK with this. Just to name a few. Ok. See what Linus shouts, loud and clear: http://www.ussg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0312.0/1014.html This makes it clearer. Andersen is OK with devices that include Busybox and comply with the GPL. He is very unhappy with devices that include Busybox and violate the GPL: http://busybox.net/shame.html Reading it up ... Yes, you can, if and only if it's linux or open source based and the license permits you to do that. You are allowed to charge money for it. You can copy it and sell the copies. This is explicitly specified in the GPL. The idea is Did you actually read the license? It does not say what you think it says. I thought that the part about copying is clear. The only people who decide how much it costs to compile, copy, print and mail an item are the distributors. How else could you explain the $100 price tag of a Suse or Red Hat box. But you can always go with cheapbytes. Try following this, it is not very hard. 1. The ECI router runs Linux. 2. ECI got a copy of Linux from Montavista. 3. Montavista gave ECI both binary and source, so they comply with the license. 4. ECI gave Matan a binary copy of Linux. 5. ECI did not give matan the corresponding source, and did not offer to give such source. 6. Therefore, they did not comply with the license. 7. Therefore, they copied Linux without having a legal right to do so. Hmm. Ok, I see the point. Maybe the license 'got lost' somewhere on the way. It would be interesting to know if there is something on the b-focus cdrom. I will look tomorrow if I have time. Funny, coming from someone who speaks about the GPL, but does not know what it says. Ok, I overreacted. Sorry. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Accessing eci b-focus 312+ ADSL Router/Modem
Matan Ziv-Av wrote: On Sat, 4 Jun 2005, Gilad Ben-Yossef wrote: It's sort of funny in a way that it runs Linux - think for example how many Israeli high ranking Microsoft execs connect to the internet using this Bezeq provided Linux box and don't even realise it... :-) I guess they would actually be happy, if they knew. The modem is distributed in violation of the GPL. There is no mention of the GPL, Linux or Busybox, even though binaries of Linux and Busybox are included. There is also no source included, and no written offer to provide the source. I agree that Bezeq is violating the GPL with their distribution of the router. Note that it is Bezeq, not ECI - you get the modem from them. I have already given the matter some thought as part of Hamamor activities. I was planning to make a background check to see if ECI supplies the GPLed parts source code somehow (if so it will still be a violation, but not a very interesting one). If they don't then this is something that we should approach very very carefully. Accusing a major corp with GPL violation (even though it's true) should not be done lightly. For example, to have a standaing in court, we actually need to find someone with code in the GPLed parts of that product - anyone here has code in the kernel/busybox/glibc? Is anyone able to locate on ECI web site any refernce to the GPL components source code? Gilad = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Accessing eci b-focus 312+ ADSL Router/Modem
Aharon Schkolnik escribió/wrote/a écrit: Hi. Just received an eci b-focus 312+ ADSL Router/Modem. It is installed, configured, up and running. However, I would like to be able to play around with it, and don't know how to access it. ifconfig shows: ppp0 Link encap:Point-to-Point Protocol inet addr:85.64.138.230 P-t-P:62.90.133.69 Mask:255.255.255.255 ping 62.90.133.69 works telnet 62.90.133.69 Trying 62.90.133.69... telnet: connect to address 62.90.133.69: Connection refused telnet 62.90.133.69 80 Trying 62.90.133.69... This is not your modem IP! It's the other point of your point to point (ppp) connection, your provider's one. What you need to do is to setup an IP on your network card, the one you use to dial ppp on. The problem is you must investigate what IP your modem has. This info is provided by the modem's manual. They often use 10.0.0.1, 192.168.1.1, 192.168.100.1, c. You need to find this info first and setup your ethernet card in the same network. HTH, - Roberto = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
