Re: Email Lists

[Gary Kramlich]

On Fri, Oct 14, 2022, 08:27 Haudy Kazemi  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> A few thoughts:
>
> Is the idea that this will be self-hosted somewhere?
>

Self hosted, our infrastructure is sponsored by DigitalOcean. Apparently I
should be mentioning that here too instead of just in our blog ;-)

>
> Or that it will be small enough to fit on the free service tiers? That is
> 50k monthly content requests like page/message/thread views and 5 GB
> storage.
> https://free.discourse.group
>
> The paid tiers can get pricey:
> https://www.discourse.org/pricing
>
> Discourse does appear to offer email to forum bridging for those who
> prefer to receive and send messages via an email client of their choice.
> Here is one group's info about this topic:
> https://gramps.discourse.group/t/discourse-email-settings/116
>
> As long as the list archives are available somewhere, I don't think it is
> necessary to actually import those archives into a replacement tool or
> forum.
>

The problem is the archives aren't static and need abandoned software to
"stay as the are". I can dump then in a container to limit risk, but that's
still not ideal.

I personally prefer email, at least for lower volume groups like this. It
> seems a forum with a full bidirectional bridge to email would be
> functionally equivalent.
>
> I am not sure user import is necessary. Also, some people may not want to
> be signed up on hosted Discourse or another service with their current
> names/user accounts/email addresses.
>
> An alternative approach is a self-signup period, announced regularly on
> the current list, where everyone is encouraged to signup in the new space
> but not use it for posting except testing.
>
> Then follow up with a cutover date where all posts should go to the new
> system, and old system is made read only (except for sending a few more
> sign up reminder messages).
>
I've been considering something like this, thanks for your input.

> -hk
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 6, 2022, 05:00 Gary Kramlich  wrote:
>
>> Greetings Programs!
>>
>> As some of you may be aware, we've been in the process of transitioning
>> our email lists to a new server. Well, managing email in 2022 is tedious
>> and unforgiving so it's taking forever and I always have a ton more on
>> my plate that's easier to do.
>>
>> As such, the idea has come up to migrate to Discource instead. Because
>> of this, I'm trying to see how others feel about this and how we should
>> go about importing things. They are listed below.
>>
>> I've tried looking to see if I can anonymize the archive, but haven't
>> found anything mentioning that as a possibility yet.
>>
>> Please respond as soon as possible as I would really like to start on
>> this migration no later than 2022-10-14.
>>
>> When it comes to this migration, are you for or against it? (Please
>> answer yes/no/doesn't matter)
>>
>> When it comes to this migration, would you like to have users imported
>> into the new system? (Please answer yes/no/doesn't matter)
>>
>
> It is pretty to not require signing up again.
>
>
>>
>> When it comes to the archives, would you prefer to have it imported into
>> the new system? (Please answer yes/no/doesn't matter)
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> --
>> Gary Kramlich 
>> ___
>> Devel mailing list
>> de...@pidgin.im
>> https://lists.pidgin.im/listinfo/devel
>
>
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Re: Email Lists

[Haudy Kazemi]

Hello,

A few thoughts:

Is the idea that this will be self-hosted somewhere?

Or that it will be small enough to fit on the free service tiers? That is
50k monthly content requests like page/message/thread views and 5 GB
storage.
https://free.discourse.group

The paid tiers can get pricey:
https://www.discourse.org/pricing

Discourse does appear to offer email to forum bridging for those who prefer
to receive and send messages via an email client of their choice. Here is
one group's info about this topic:
https://gramps.discourse.group/t/discourse-email-settings/116

As long as the list archives are available somewhere, I don't think it is
necessary to actually import those archives into a replacement tool or
forum.

I personally prefer email, at least for lower volume groups like this. It
seems a forum with a full bidirectional bridge to email would be
functionally equivalent.

I am not sure user import is necessary. Also, some people may not want to
be signed up on hosted Discourse or another service with their current
names/user accounts/email addresses.

An alternative approach is a self-signup period, announced regularly on the
current list, where everyone is encouraged to signup in the new space but
not use it for posting except testing.

Then follow up with a cutover date where all posts should go to the new
system, and old system is made read only (except for sending a few more
sign up reminder messages).

-hk



On Thu, Oct 6, 2022, 05:00 Gary Kramlich  wrote:

> Greetings Programs!
>
> As some of you may be aware, we've been in the process of transitioning
> our email lists to a new server. Well, managing email in 2022 is tedious
> and unforgiving so it's taking forever and I always have a ton more on
> my plate that's easier to do.
>
> As such, the idea has come up to migrate to Discource instead. Because
> of this, I'm trying to see how others feel about this and how we should
> go about importing things. They are listed below.
>
> I've tried looking to see if I can anonymize the archive, but haven't
> found anything mentioning that as a possibility yet.
>
> Please respond as soon as possible as I would really like to start on
> this migration no later than 2022-10-14.
>
> When it comes to this migration, are you for or against it? (Please
> answer yes/no/doesn't matter)
>
> When it comes to this migration, would you like to have users imported
> into the new system? (Please answer yes/no/doesn't matter)
>

It is pretty to not require signing up again.


>
> When it comes to the archives, would you prefer to have it imported into
> the new system? (Please answer yes/no/doesn't matter)
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Gary Kramlich 
> ___
> Devel mailing list
> de...@pidgin.im
> https://lists.pidgin.im/listinfo/devel
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Re: Email Lists

[pidgin]

On 2022-10-07 12:11, Brian Morrison wrote:

Moderation? Count me out then!


Why?

If Gary removes a spammer's post from the the forum, how would it affect you?
It's not like he can reach into your mailbox and undeliver the message.


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Re: Email Lists

[Brian Morrison]

On Thu, 6 Oct 2022 17:24:34 -0600
Dave Warren  wrote:

> On 2022-10-06 12:14, pid...@alexoren.com wrote:
> > On 2022-10-06 12:39, Brian Morrison wrote:  
> >> Exactly like? So it's a mailing list manager...  
> > 
> > Apparently a hybrid.  I don't know how well they managed to pull
> > that off, but they claim they have.  
> 
> Better than anything else I have seen. Possibly not the best. It
> isn't perfect, especially because of things that happen on the web
> that can't in email (edits and moderation being prime examples).

Moderation? Count me out then!

-- 

Brian Morrison

"I am not young enough to know everything"
  Oscar Wilde

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Re: Email Lists

[David Woolley]

On 07/10/2022 16:52, pid...@alexoren.com wrote:
The current archives are not searchable (or if they are, I could not 
find a way to easily search them), so I don't see a reason to keep them 
as they are.




I generally find Google is better at searching most sites than the 
sites' own search feature.


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Re: Email Lists

[pidgin]

On 2022-10-07 08:37, Gary Kramlich wrote:

On Fri, Oct 7, 2022 at 6:35 AM Mark Rousell  wrote:


On 06/10/2022 17:12, pid...@alexoren.com wrote:



I've tried looking to see if I can anonymize the archive, but haven't
found anything mentioning that as a possibility yet.


Why does it matter?  Currently, the archives are open for the whole
Internet to see.


Agreed. There is no need to change the state of the archives (especially
if they stay where they currently are).


The issue with the current archives is that pipermail is a mailman 2
thing, and mailman 2 has been deprecated for mailman 3 for a while now
and it's not available in distro packager managers anymore. So
something needs to be figured out to turn it into a static site or
something else that's actually maintained.


The current archives are not searchable (or if they are, I could not find a way 
to easily search them), so I don't see a reason to keep them as they are.

My comment only concerned the anonymization.  I feel that anonymizing them any 
further than the current publicly-accessible archives is kind of pointless.

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Re: Email Lists

[Gary Kramlich]

On Fri, Oct 7, 2022 at 6:35 AM Mark Rousell  wrote:
>
> On 06/10/2022 17:12, pid...@alexoren.com wrote:
> >
> >> I've tried looking to see if I can anonymize the archive, but haven't
> >> found anything mentioning that as a possibility yet.
> >
> > Why does it matter?  Currently, the archives are open for the whole
> > Internet to see.
> >
> Agreed. There is no need to change the state of the archives (especially
> if they stay where they currently are).

The issue with the current archives is that pipermail is a mailman 2
thing, and mailman 2 has been deprecated for mailman 3 for a while now
and it's not available in distro packager managers anymore. So
something needs to be figured out to turn it into a static site or
something else that's actually maintained.

> --
> Mark Rousell

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Re: Email Lists

[Mark Rousell]

On 06/10/2022 17:12, pid...@alexoren.com wrote:
>
>> I've tried looking to see if I can anonymize the archive, but haven't
>> found anything mentioning that as a possibility yet.
>
> Why does it matter?  Currently, the archives are open for the whole
> Internet to see.
>
Agreed. There is no need to change the state of the archives (especially
if they stay where they currently are).


-- 
Mark Rousell
 
 
 

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Re: Email Lists

[Mark Rousell]

As long as I can automatically read all messages and post to the list
entirely and solely by email then I vote yes to the migration.

I am not interested in a web UI other for one-off configuration jobs.

I would hope that users were transparently imported into the new system
with no user interaction required.

As for archives from before the migration, it seems to me that these do
not need to be imported into the new system; they can stay where they are.



On 06/10/2022 10:52, Gary Kramlich wrote:
> Greetings Programs!
>
> As some of you may be aware, we've been in the process of
> transitioning our email lists to a new server. Well, managing email in
> 2022 is tedious and unforgiving so it's taking forever and I always
> have a ton more on my plate that's easier to do.
>
> As such, the idea has come up to migrate to Discource instead. Because
> of this, I'm trying to see how others feel about this and how we
> should go about importing things. They are listed below.
>
> I've tried looking to see if I can anonymize the archive, but haven't
> found anything mentioning that as a possibility yet.
>
> Please respond as soon as possible as I would really like to start on
> this migration no later than 2022-10-14.
>
> When it comes to this migration, are you for or against it? (Please
> answer yes/no/doesn't matter)
>
> When it comes to this migration, would you like to have users imported
> into the new system? (Please answer yes/no/doesn't matter)
>
> When it comes to the archives, would you prefer to have it imported
> into the new system? (Please answer yes/no/doesn't matter)
>
> Thanks! 

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Re: Email Lists

[pidgin]

On 2022-10-06 19:24, Dave Warren wrote:

On 2022-10-06 12:14, pid...@alexoren.com wrote:

On 2022-10-06 12:39, Brian Morrison wrote:

Exactly like? So it's a mailing list manager...


Apparently a hybrid.  I don't know how well they managed to pull that off, but 
they claim they have.


Better than anything else I have seen. Possibly not the best. It isn't perfect, 
especially because of things that happen on the web that can't in email (edits 
and moderation being prime examples).


Pidgin could use more users, and after Miranda NG gave up on Discord support, 
some people may decide to switch.  Having newbie-friendly support is important, 
and who knows, today's newbie may be tomorrow's contributor.


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Re: Email Lists

[Dave Warren]

On 2022-10-06 12:14, pid...@alexoren.com wrote:

On 2022-10-06 12:39, Brian Morrison wrote:

Exactly like? So it's a mailing list manager...


Apparently a hybrid.  I don't know how well they managed to pull that 
off, but they claim they have.


Better than anything else I have seen. Possibly not the best. It isn't 
perfect, especially because of things that happen on the web that can't 
in email (edits and moderation being prime examples).


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Re: Email Lists

[pidgin]

On 2022-10-06 12:53, David Woolley wrote:

The problem I'd have with pidgin as anything but pure email format would be 
that it is very low volume.  I don't like web sites being able to intrude, with 
notifications.


I fail to follow.  If anything, a web forum is /less/ intrusive than an email 
list, as you have better control over notifications.


Typically, what I find with support forums, is that the people making one time 
appearances, to ask a question, prefer forums, because they are fashionable, 
but those who stick around and answer tend to prefer mailing lists.  However 
both mailing list and forum camps can have a serious amount of religious 
fervour.


I prefer forums because they make it easier for me to find what I am looking 
for, even when it is questions to answer.


The risk with forums in high volume cases, is that they fragment, because lots 
of people want to own their own forum.


That may be true for purely social ones, but there is little reason for 
technical forums to fragment.


Even if mailing lists fragment, you can use mail filters to put them back 
together, albeit you still run the risk of the same question getting asked on 
all of them, and the complete answer being spread across them.


Pidgin is not that popular so there is little risk of its support forum/list to get 
anywhere close to "high volume".
(Compare to, say, Red Flag Deals https://forums.redflagdeals.com - 1.9M 
threads, 30M posts, 1.3M registered users.  Imagine managing that in a mailing 
list)

I would even say that the fact that Pidgin doesn't have a discussion forum more 
accessible to new users is more than a contributing factor.

Fragmenting is also not a risk, since the people will go where the developers 
are to answer their questions.

If Discourse can provide the mailing list experience to some and a web forum 
experience to others, I see it as the best compromise.

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Re: Email Lists

[pidgin]

On 2022-10-06 12:39, Brian Morrison wrote:

Exactly like? So it's a mailing list manager...


Apparently a hybrid.  I don't know how well they managed to pull that off, but 
they claim they have.


I use the email interface to groups.io (I'd prefer not to have to, but
it is what it is) and I find that email to the groups.io group usually
have broken references headers and the threading is broken because of
this. I also see lots of replies to list and to me as well and it
drives me crazy.


Those are valid concerns, and I have asked on the Discourse metaforum.
I will follow up when I get a reply.


Mailing lists have worked for me for way over 35 years so I am
resistant to change.


I've used BBSes (V.22bis dial-up), mailing lists, Usenet, various proprietary 
"groups", and Web Forums of all kinds.  I find Web forums vastly more 
convenient than mailing lists for multiple reasons, but I have no interest to convert 
others, so a solution that can work for both would be best.

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Re: Email Lists

[Dave Warren]

On 2022-10-06 10:53, David Woolley wrote:
Typically, what I find with support forums, is that the people making 
one time appearances, to ask a question, prefer forums, because they are 
fashionable, but those who stick around and answer tend to prefer 
mailing lists.  However both mailing list and forum camps can have a 
serious amount of religious fervour.


I absolutely agree with this.

In fact, this is part of why I like Discourse, I follow as a mailing 
list user to discover what I want to interact with and reply by email 
the majority of the time, so it mostly is just a mailing list, but it 
has the forum-based features for those needing support.


Neither side can do without the other.


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Re: Email Lists

[Dave Warren]

On 2022-10-06 05:10, Brian Morrison wrote:

On Thu, 6 Oct 2022 04:52:14 -0500
Gary Kramlich  wrote:


When it comes to this migration, are you for or against it? (Please
answer yes/no/doesn't matter)


No. It seems to be a forum, much prefer mailing lists, forums always
treat email as a second-class (or worse) add-on.


Discourse is one of the best if not the best of the web-based forums in 
terms of supporting mailing-list mode. I participate in a couple where I 
operate primarily or exclusively by email.


But, it needs the email feature to actually be enabled and a lot of 
Discouse installations don't bother, in which case you can read via 
email but need to pop into the web interface to post.


While I actively prefer mailing lists, the reality is what it is: Forums 
work better for new users, and for one-off question askers.


As someone who enjoys supporting and helping others, the forum has 
another perk: Users can actually search and find related topics to have 
a chance at solving their own issue. Discourse offers up suggestions for 
related posts automatically.



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Re: Email Lists

[David Woolley]

On 06/10/2022 17:39, Brian Morrison wrote:

Exactly like? So it's a mailing list manager...



I've used it in a high volume context, where I make several posts a day, 
and it seems to me that many of the features only make sense as a web 
forum.  I haven't looked at email, except for its notifications of 
tagged messages, and replies to my postings.


The problem I'd have with pidgin as anything but pure email format would 
be that it is very low volume.  I don't like web sites being able to 
intrude, with notifications.


Typically, what I find with support forums, is that the people making 
one time appearances, to ask a question, prefer forums, because they are 
fashionable, but those who stick around and answer tend to prefer 
mailing lists.  However both mailing list and forum camps can have a 
serious amount of religious fervour.


The risk with forums in high volume cases, is that they fragment, 
because lots of people want to own their own forum.  Historically, at 
least, the reason for actually providing forum infrastructure was 
targetting, although the Discourse ones I'm on are only used to 
advertise the company owning the official version of the OS software.


Even if mailing lists fragment, you can use mail filters to put them 
back together, albeit you still run the risk of the same question 
getting asked on all of them, and the complete answer being spread 
across them.


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Re: Email Lists

[Brian Morrison]

On Thu, 6 Oct 2022 12:31:40 -0400
pid...@alexoren.com wrote:

> > I'm also against any type of forum and prefer stay with the list.  
> 
> I understand your reluctance to use a web interface, but Discourse
> can be configured to behave exactly like a mailing list for the
> people that prefer that mode of communication.

Exactly like? So it's a mailing list manager...

> 
> If you can continue using it that way, communicating via email
> without having to deal with a web interface, would it bother you that
> other people can have different options?

I use the email interface to groups.io (I'd prefer not to have to, but
it is what it is) and I find that email to the groups.io group usually
have broken references headers and the threading is broken because of
this. I also see lots of replies to list and to me as well and it
drives me crazy.

I don't think I have any experience of Discourse.

Mailing lists have worked for me for way over 35 years so I am
resistant to change.

-- 

Brian Morrison

"I am not young enough to know everything"
  Oscar Wilde

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Re: Email Lists

[pidgin]

On 2022-10-06 07:40, Matthias Apitz wrote:

El día Donnerstag, Oktober 06, 2022 a las 12:33:30 +0100, Brian Morrison 
escribió:


On Thu, 06 Oct 2022 14:28:27 +0300
Konstantin Kharlamov  wrote:


On Thu, 2022-10-06 at 12:10 +0100, Brian Morrison wrote:

On Thu, 6 Oct 2022 04:52:14 -0500
Gary Kramlich  wrote:
   

When it comes to this migration, are you for or against it?
(Please answer yes/no/doesn't matter)


No. It seems to be a forum, much prefer mailing lists, forums always
treat email as a second-class (or worse) add-on.


I don't see a problem as long as a forum allows to emulate a mailing
list. If Discourse allows one to subscribe "to everything" and reply
to posts with email, then you get pretty much a mailing list in your
email client.

I don't know if Discourse allows that, but if somebody confirms, then
there should be no problem.


I can confirm. See my other email to this list for details.

Discourse bills itself as a mailing lit alternative, and as such offers a 
smooth and gradual transition, allowing people that prefer the mailing list 
experience to keep it.


We were asked to vote, I vote against anything that looks like a forum
and has a web interface. YMMV.


I'm also against any type of forum and prefer stay with the list.


I understand your reluctance to use a web interface, but Discourse can be 
configured to behave exactly like a mailing list for the people that prefer 
that mode of communication.

If you can continue using it that way, communicating via email without having 
to deal with a web interface, would it bother you that other people can have 
different options?

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Re: Email Lists

[pidgin]

On 2022-10-06 05:52, Gary Kramlich wrote:

Greetings Programs!

As some of you may be aware, we've been in the process of transitioning our 
email lists to a new server. Well, managing email in 2022 is tedious and 
unforgiving so it's taking forever and I always have a ton more on my plate 
that's easier to do.

As such, the idea has come up to migrate to Discource instead. Because of this, 
I'm trying to see how others feel about this and how we should go about 
importing things. They are listed below.

I've tried looking to see if I can anonymize the archive, but haven't found 
anything mentioning that as a possibility yet.


Why does it matter?  Currently, the archives are open for the whole Internet to 
see.


Please respond as soon as possible as I would really like to start on this 
migration no later than 2022-10-14.

When it comes to this migration, are you for or against it? (Please answer 
yes/no/doesn't matter)


I have always been in favour of forums over mailing lists due to the added 
flexibility and control that they offer, so this is a resounding YES from me.

I am not familiar with Discourse in particular, but I checked their web site, 
and they say that the platform integrates with email:

| Reply via email
|
| When you aren’t active on the website, your notifications will be 
automatically sent to you via email. Reply via email from anywhere, on any 
device.

So the people that prefer to use email can continue with their current workflow.

*Edit before sending*

I dug a bit deeper and this is what their FAQ says:

| Discourse can be used as a mailing list
|
| With properly configured incoming mail, Discourse can be used just like a 
mailing list. If you’ll be interacting with Discourse exclusively by email, 
consider enabling Mailing list mode in your personal preferences, provided it’s 
enabled on your forum.

I registered an account on a Discourse board to check, and indeed there is this 
setting:

| Mailing list mode
| [_] Enable mailing list mode
| This setting overrides the activity summary.
| Muted topics and categories are not included in these emails.

And most interestingly, if the server is configured to allow it, you don't even 
have to set up an account!

| Enable “Accept emails from anonymous users with no accounts” if you want 
staged users to be created when an incoming email address does not exists yet.


When it comes to this migration, would you like to have users imported into the 
new system? (Please answer yes/no/doesn't matter)


It does not matter to me.  Registering an account with the same email takes 2 
minutes.

That said, if makes it transparent and zero-effort for the people that prefer 
to continue using email, then I am all for it.


When it comes to the archives, would you prefer to have it imported into the 
new system? (Please answer yes/no/doesn't matter)


It does not matter to me.  If it makes the archives searchable and minimizes 
the number of times that the same questions need to be answered over and over 
again, then I am for it.  If it makes the migration more complicated, then it 
can be dropped.


Thank you,
Alex.

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Re: Email Lists

[Robert Moskowitz]

On 10/6/22 05:52, Gary Kramlich wrote:

Greetings Programs!

As some of you may be aware, we've been in the process of 
transitioning our email lists to a new server. Well, managing email in 
2022 is tedious and unforgiving so it's taking forever and I always 
have a ton more on my plate that's easier to do.


As such, the idea has come up to migrate to Discource instead. Because 
of this, I'm trying to see how others feel about this and how we 
should go about importing things. They are listed below.


I am always against forums.  Exception when it is for a vendor's product 
and they have lots of separate forum based on user issues.


But forum means there is somewhere else I need to look to participate, 
or if it is low volume as here, to note that there is something I need 
to think about.


Also many forum software eat up processor resources and I watch my 
Firefox grow in memory consumption to the point I have to kill it and 
restart to get rid of all sorts of cruft.  Thunderbird by itself is bad 
enough.  ;)


So if you switch to forum, it is goodby.  Actually my mine use of, for 
IETF Jabber access, has gone away, so there is a real question if I 
really need pidgin at all now...


My opinion for what it is worth.





I've tried looking to see if I can anonymize the archive, but haven't 
found anything mentioning that as a possibility yet.


Please respond as soon as possible as I would really like to start on 
this migration no later than 2022-10-14.


When it comes to this migration, are you for or against it? (Please 
answer yes/no/doesn't matter)


When it comes to this migration, would you like to have users imported 
into the new system? (Please answer yes/no/doesn't matter)


When it comes to the archives, would you prefer to have it imported 
into the new system? (Please answer yes/no/doesn't matter)


Thanks!

--
Gary Kramlich 
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Re: Email Lists

[Matthias Apitz]

El día Donnerstag, Oktober 06, 2022 a las 12:33:30 +0100, Brian Morrison 
escribió:

> On Thu, 06 Oct 2022 14:28:27 +0300
> Konstantin Kharlamov  wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, 2022-10-06 at 12:10 +0100, Brian Morrison wrote:
> > > On Thu, 6 Oct 2022 04:52:14 -0500
> > > Gary Kramlich  wrote:
> > >   
> > > > When it comes to this migration, are you for or against it?
> > > > (Please answer yes/no/doesn't matter)  
> > > 
> > > No. It seems to be a forum, much prefer mailing lists, forums always
> > > treat email as a second-class (or worse) add-on.  
> > 
> > I don't see a problem as long as a forum allows to emulate a mailing
> > list. If Discourse allows one to subscribe "to everything" and reply
> > to posts with email, then you get pretty much a mailing list in your
> > email client.
> > 
> > I don't know if Discourse allows that, but if somebody confirms, then
> > there should be no problem.
> > 
> 
> We were asked to vote, I vote against anything that looks like a forum
> and has a web interface. YMMV.

I'm also against any type of forum and prefer stay with the list.

matthias

-- 
Matthias Apitz, ✉ g...@unixarea.de, http://www.unixarea.de/ +49-176-38902045
Public GnuPG key: http://www.unixarea.de/key.pub
May, 9: Спаси́бо освободители! Thank you very much, Russian liberators!

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Re: Email Lists

[Konstantin Kharlamov]

On Thu, 2022-10-06 at 04:52 -0500, Gary Kramlich wrote:
> Greetings Programs!
> 
> As some of you may be aware, we've been in the process of transitioning 
> our email lists to a new server. Well, managing email in 2022 is tedious 
> and unforgiving so it's taking forever and I always have a ton more on 
> my plate that's easier to do.
> 
> As such, the idea has come up to migrate to Discource instead. Because 
> of this, I'm trying to see how others feel about this and how we should 
> go about importing things. They are listed below.
> 
> I've tried looking to see if I can anonymize the archive, but haven't 
> found anything mentioning that as a possibility yet.
> 
> Please respond as soon as possible as I would really like to start on 
> this migration no later than 2022-10-14.
> 
> When it comes to this migration, are you for or against it? (Please 
> answer yes/no/doesn't matter)

Yes.

As someone who often has to subscribe to various mailing lists, I can say they
are very annoying. And the reason is that, often times you want to track only a
single topic and nothing else. But you can't: you either get everything or
nothing at all. You either subscribed, or you are not, and just hope that you
email will pass spam-filters and that people who reply to you wouldn't forget to
add you to CC. It is an unwieldy system.

As a disclaimer though, I probably won't subscribe to Discourse myslelf, Idk if
that matters. I still only subscribed here just because it's a very low-activity
list, so I didn't even have to create filters for it, etc. But at the moment I
don't develop a Pidgin addon (I did at the past, but not anymore), so my
presence here is not justified. So, here's that, just FTR.

> When it comes to this migration, would you like to have users imported 
> into the new system? (Please answer yes/no/doesn't matter)

Yes.

If it's possible, then sounds fun, why not. It would mean people won't even
notice that migration happened, sure.

> When it comes to the archives, would you prefer to have it imported into 
> the new system? (Please answer yes/no/doesn't matter)

Yes.

It's good for indexing by search engines, as a bunch of useful information would
appear on the new Discorse system.

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Re: Email Lists

[Brian Morrison]

On Thu, 06 Oct 2022 14:28:27 +0300
Konstantin Kharlamov  wrote:

> On Thu, 2022-10-06 at 12:10 +0100, Brian Morrison wrote:
> > On Thu, 6 Oct 2022 04:52:14 -0500
> > Gary Kramlich  wrote:
> >   
> > > When it comes to this migration, are you for or against it?
> > > (Please answer yes/no/doesn't matter)  
> > 
> > No. It seems to be a forum, much prefer mailing lists, forums always
> > treat email as a second-class (or worse) add-on.  
> 
> I don't see a problem as long as a forum allows to emulate a mailing
> list. If Discourse allows one to subscribe "to everything" and reply
> to posts with email, then you get pretty much a mailing list in your
> email client.
> 
> I don't know if Discourse allows that, but if somebody confirms, then
> there should be no problem.
> 

We were asked to vote, I vote against anything that looks like a forum
and has a web interface. YMMV.

-- 

Brian Morrison

"I am not young enough to know everything"
  Oscar Wilde

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Re: Email Lists

[Konstantin Kharlamov]

On Thu, 2022-10-06 at 12:10 +0100, Brian Morrison wrote:
> On Thu, 6 Oct 2022 04:52:14 -0500
> Gary Kramlich  wrote:
> 
> > When it comes to this migration, are you for or against it? (Please 
> > answer yes/no/doesn't matter)
> 
> No. It seems to be a forum, much prefer mailing lists, forums always
> treat email as a second-class (or worse) add-on.

I don't see a problem as long as a forum allows to emulate a mailing list. If
Discourse allows one to subscribe "to everything" and reply to posts with email,
then you get pretty much a mailing list in your email client.

I don't know if Discourse allows that, but if somebody confirms, then there
should be no problem.

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Re: Email Lists

[Brian Morrison]

On Thu, 6 Oct 2022 04:52:14 -0500
Gary Kramlich  wrote:

> When it comes to this migration, are you for or against it? (Please 
> answer yes/no/doesn't matter)

No. It seems to be a forum, much prefer mailing lists, forums always
treat email as a second-class (or worse) add-on.

> 
> When it comes to this migration, would you like to have users
> imported into the new system? (Please answer yes/no/doesn't matter)

Doesn't matter, see above.

> 
> When it comes to the archives, would you prefer to have it imported
> into the new system? (Please answer yes/no/doesn't matter)

No, please leave the existing archive where it is.

-- 

Brian Morrison

"I am not young enough to know everything"
  Oscar Wilde

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Email Lists

[Gary Kramlich]

Greetings Programs!

As some of you may be aware, we've been in the process of transitioning 
our email lists to a new server. Well, managing email in 2022 is tedious 
and unforgiving so it's taking forever and I always have a ton more on 
my plate that's easier to do.


As such, the idea has come up to migrate to Discource instead. Because 
of this, I'm trying to see how others feel about this and how we should 
go about importing things. They are listed below.


I've tried looking to see if I can anonymize the archive, but haven't 
found anything mentioning that as a possibility yet.


Please respond as soon as possible as I would really like to start on 
this migration no later than 2022-10-14.


When it comes to this migration, are you for or against it? (Please 
answer yes/no/doesn't matter)


When it comes to this migration, would you like to have users imported 
into the new system? (Please answer yes/no/doesn't matter)


When it comes to the archives, would you prefer to have it imported into 
the new system? (Please answer yes/no/doesn't matter)


Thanks!

--
Gary Kramlich 
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