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There seems to be a pervasive belief amongst Baha'is that if a lot of Baha'is
pray in unison for something
This notion is not pervasive in my experience. I have not heard of this
praying in unison; it's not something that is discussed or done in my area.
Why do
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
few would agree that the internet functions with marvellous swiftness
everywhere.
Compared to what we had 40 years ago -U.S. Postal mail - the paper kind,
compared to that, the internet is truly marvelously swift.
It used to take a week or more to mail a
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
For several months I have had my mail filter set so that anything from Stephen
goes straight to my trash folder.
Tim
All good art is about something deeper than it admits.
--Roger Ebert
From: Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Why do and why should non-Bahais
become Bahais?
People embrace the cause of Baha'u'llah for many different reasons,
and everyone is welcome.
But there is only one reason that is solid, in my view.
The only solid foundation for becoming a Baha'i is belief
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Because of the deterioration of this discussion group, and
because there are technical difficulties preventing unsubscribing
or shutting down this list, I have set my mail filters so that
any message with bahai-st@list.jccc.edu in the To: field
will go straight to my
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
non-Baha'is are going to require something more neutral. I can't use the term
covenant-breaker in an academic setting, for instance.
Susan,
Suppose there is a small group of people who called themselves chemists,
but they reject the periodic table of elements, and
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
With regard to the Seal of the Prophets
Did Baha'u'llah refer to Himself as a nabi or a rasul?
If he did not, then this whole question is moot.
Tim
All good art is about something deeper than it admits.
--Roger Ebert
- Original Message
From: Susan
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
But Bahais generally don't just stop here, and instead
would insist that Bahaullah etc. were messengers and prophets and so
Muslims must be wrong/confused/wanting to tie the hands of God, etc.
As I see it, the Qur'an contains the authentic revelation of God to
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Hi Kathryn
I understand we are to be obedient, and we are not to take offense,
but this dogmatic approach raised bitterness, resentment
One of the things I have had to learn in my Baha'i life,
is that while we are to be obedient to the *institutions* and
to the
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
If we're only counting active Baha'is, which country in the world has the
most
Baha'is?
There is no generally agreed upon definition of the term active Baha'i, so
it's not possible
to give a specific answer to this question. How many Feasts and study classes
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
In the USA, the number of Baha'is is shrinking for sure, as new declarants are
well below
the replacement level due to deaths.
What is your reference for this? I don't know that this is a fact.
referring to the Baha'i Faith as a fast growing community.
In the
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
so many people have declared their Faith in Baha'u'llah, but in practice many
of
these new declarants
become inactive in few months
I have seen this same thing. Finding someone to enroll is relatively easy if
you talk to enough people.
But getting newly enrolled
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
I recently participated in a discussion about Muhammad.
One person in the discussion stated over and over that
Muhammad was immoral because he married a girl aged 6,
and had intimate relations with her when she was only 9.
This particular person in the discussion was
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
And there is a difference between being male and men or being female or women?
To my mind, yes there is a difference. I would use male and female
to refer to horses or dogs or plants. I would use man or woman to
refer to human beings.
Tim
All good art is about
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
how much emphasis on laws do Baha'is have?
From the beginning of the Kitab-i-Aqdas:
The first duty prescribed by God for His servants is the recognition of Him
Who
is
the Dayspring of His Revelation and the Fountain of His laws, Who representeth
the
Godhead
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
What pratices would cause a Baha'i to qualify for devout devotee status?
Who cares? I don't think that's important. Following in God's path
has nothing to do with qualifying for some status.
I don't think this is anything to be concerned about.
Being a good Baha'i
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Why doesn't the Baha'i Faith have a Ten Commandents
Why should it have them? Baha'u'llah revealed what God willed
for our age. I think it's a mistake to try to make the Baha'i revelation
fit into any conceptual boxes we invent.
Tim
All good art is about something
Message
From: Tim Nolan tnola...@yahoo.com
To: bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Tue, November 2, 2010 5:37:11 PM
Subject: Re: Devout Religiousity
What pratices would cause a Baha'i to qualify for devout devotee status?
Who cares? I don't think that's important. Following in God's path
has
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
The point is that from the standpoint of Baha'is something
went terribly wrong in Islamic history.
I am ignorant about Islamic history. Could you tell me what went
terribly wrong? And what's so bad about the Umayyads?
Tim
- Original Message
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Haifan Baha'is is a misnomer because it implies that those Baha'is who are
faithful
to the covenmant are just one of several legitimate Baha'i groups.
That is not the case. The Baha'i community that follows the covenant, and
turns to the Universal House of Justice
-Bahai refer to the various
groups which all claim to be Bahais and follow the teachings of
Bahaullah?
On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 1:54 PM, Tim Nolan tnola...@yahoo.com wrote:
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Haifan Baha'is is a misnomer because it implies that those Baha'is who are
faithful
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
I'm leaving this thread for now; I have nothing to contribute beyond what
I've already said.
Tim
All good art is about something deeper than it admits.
--Roger Ebert
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Shoghi Effendi was the great grandson of Baha'u'llah and the grandson of Abdu'l
Baha,
so he was an Aghsan. He was also an Afnan, descended from the Bab's family.
He no longer metions the Aghsan in this part, implying he wrote them out of it.
I don't think that's a
be a matrilineal Aghsan given the fact
that
like in tree leaves stop lineage grwoth. Abdu'l-Baha nver refers to him as an
Agshan, just an Afnan.
From: Tim Nolan tnola...@yahoo.com
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Thu, September 2, 2010 12:18:00 PM
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
That fiveelders link doesn't work for me. Who are they, and what is
their relation to the Baha'i covenant? I never heard of this
Universal Senate of Justice. Can you give sources from the
writings of Baha'u'llah or Abdu'l Baha or Shoghi Effendi?
Tim
All good
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
I went to the site through Google. I only looked at the first page.
It definitely looks like a covenant breaker website. On the
first page it says copyright The International Institution of the Guardianship.
So, Mr. Stephen Grey, why are you posting links to
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
They aren't covenant breakers in that:
What, specifically, is their relation to the Universal House of Justice?
Do they accept its authority without reservation? Are they submissive and
obedient to it? What is this so-called International Institution of the
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Bill
I also remember Rosemary passing on some information that day
that could be considered Loaded.
So...what was this loaded information?
Tim
All good art is about something deeper than it admits.
--Roger Ebert
- Original Message
From: Skygram
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
I was brought up as a Catholic, and now I am a Baha'i. When I was a
Catholic boy, I was taught
to despise Muhammad and to look on the Qur'an as a strange book that should be
avoided.
Now *because* of accepting Baha'i teachings, I believe Muhammad was a
Messenger
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
If I may jump in here.
I suggest it's the wrong question to ask whether God has a particuar quality,
unless
a Manifestation of God refers to it. God is not a person who has or does not
have
qualities.
We can never understand God. I have reached the conclusion
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
The example which comes to mind is smoking in the Bahai
faith. It isn't prohibited but it isn't exactly A-OK either.
I read an interesting story about how Shoghi Effendi showed kindness to a
pilgrim,
Charles Dunning, when he came to the Holy Land from the British
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
From the Letter to the World's Religious Leaders, published by the House of
Justice:
religion and science are the two indispensable knowledge systems through
which the potentialities of consciousness develop.
Far from being in conflict with one another, these
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Hi Brent,
Baha'u'llah said the day will come when a woman traveling alone will be able
to traverse
the entire surface of the earth ... and without a single man having looked
upon her with lust.
While men have a responsibility for this, it would also help if
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
not enrolled, but then neither are the Bahais in China or Iran.
That's because in Iran it is dangerous if your name is found
on a Baha'i membership list. In China, according to what I've read,
believers are not enrolled because of some policies of the Chinese
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
not enrolled, but then neither are the Bahais in China or Iran.
That's because in Iran it is dangerous if your name is found
on a Baha'i membership list. In China, according to what I've read,
believers are not enrolled because of some policies of the Chinese
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
I live in Mississippi. Even though blacks make up 30% of the
population no black man has ever been elected to a state-wide office here.
Has any black woman been elected to state office?
Tim
All good art is about something deeper than it admits.
--Roger Ebert
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Alledgedly killing Shoghi
Effendi, I say allegedly... She was with him the most and he
was standing between her and the Fund money.
Mr. Gray,
This is an outrageous and contemptible accusation,
and don't try to weasel out of it by saying allegedly.
There is zero
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Why is Covenant Breaker material being allowed on this list?
Tim
All good art is about something deeper than it admits.
--Roger Ebert
--- On Thu, 1/21/10, Stephen Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote:
From: Stephen Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: RE: Sects
To: Baha'i
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Know that you are where you are, not by chance, but by the
design of your Creator, for your development and for the
development of those around you.
Ocean did not find this. I hope it's not an authentic quote
of Abdu'l Baha, because while it may contain some truth,
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Hi Susan,
Can't we let science decide the issue?
The physical aspect of evolution is certainly a scientific
question, not a religious one.
they say men and apes share a common ancestor.
Our bodies have evolved from an ancestor we share with apes.
But we are not our
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Hello David,
a campaign requiring us to go to houses
You may have felt required to go door to door, but in fact
you were not. I understand it's hard to resist the pressure
that others may put on you, but you can just say no
if you don't want to do this.
When I was
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Hello Matt,
In some neighborhoods, people like visitors coming over and
talking to them.
There is a large difference between having a visit from
someone who lives in your neighborhood, and having a total
stranger -who may even be from a different city - knock on
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
what specifically was the relation of the other descendants of
Bahaullah to the Bahai faith? In what way were they unsuitable to
succeed Shoghi Effendi?
All the other male descendants of Baha'u'llah had
broken the Covenant.
Tim
All good art is about something
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
In view of the powerful, exalted description of the Guardian
in the Will and Testament, I suggest it is fruitless for us to try to
limit Shoghi Effendi's infallibility or to try to figure whether he
was infallible before November 29, 1921. I don't care.
First of
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Hello Susan,
1) the affirmation that, regardless of cultural shifts and temporal
exigencies and notwithstanding critiques of essentialism,
the center does indeed hold;
Could you explain this more? I'd like to understand this better.
I understand the allusion to
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
The members of a set (Creation) can not prove the existence of
something (God) outside the set.
An excellent point. I think there will never be a convincing, logical
proof of God's existence, because humans have been attempting
this for centuries, and still not
Have you looked in Portals to Freedom?
Tim--- On Sat, 4/19/08, Larry Marquardt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From: Larry Marquardt [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: 'Abdul-Baha teaching how to prayTo: "Baha'i Studies" bahai-st@list.jccc.eduDate: Saturday, April 19, 2008, 11:02 PMDear Friends,
I tried several
I'm not a Baha'i, by the way, so it felt somewhat insulting to hear someone
say that the reason why there is conflict is because they haven't accepted
the Faith.
**Somewhat** insulting? I'd say *very* insulting. Baha'is are not
necessarily better than other people. We are all in this boat
I would like to point out that Richard is forwarding the messages
posted here onto another list without the permission of the authors.
Thanks for letting us know, Susan. I won't respond to him.
Tim
All good art is about something deeper than it admits.
Page number please?
firestorm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: don,
it's in lights of Guidance, towards the bottom left of the page...across from
the cite saying that reasons for delaying marriage in the west were normally
economic and...pifffle (that may be a paraphrase.)
Tim
Change means
David,
I don't know the source of that comment. The Baha'i writings say
clearly that although to married is desirable, it is not the central purpose
of life. It's not obligatory for Baha'is to marry.
Mirza Abu'l Fadl, the great Baha'i scholar never married.
Hands of the Cause
As a rule, I never open attachments unless I am sure it's from
someone I know personally. Knowing a person only through the internet
is not enough; I have to know the sender from face to face human
contact before I'll open an attachment. Otherwise I just delete the email.
Even that rule
It does matter, in my opinion, whether knowledgeable Baha'is think my views
and understandings, the very ones that caused me to declare, are within
acceptable norms or not. I have no desire to be a Baha'i whose views are
contrary to what normative
Baha'is are striving to achieve.
Dear
Hello maidenhairleaf,
I have come to fear that many Baha'is, while they might say they agree with
the four things above, in practice seem to me to not believe as such.
So what? Is your faith based on what Baha'is do or on belief in Baha'u'llah?
I fear that, as soon as one
I agree that by nature truths are not absolute and that absolutes are
illusions in a world that is relative in nature...
I agree that many things are relative, but what about these statements.
Are there any circumstances in which these are not true?
--God is the Source of all good.
Hi Susan,
Given enough generations, everyone is related to everyone else.
I agree in general; almost all of us are probably related to Genghiz Khan
or to Alexander the Great. But I wonder if this is true of populations
that until 200 years ago, were relatively isolated, for
Since Baha'is aren't allowed to renounce our religion how can we say that it
is better to do away with religion if it is not the cause of unity? I don't
see how this makes sense.
The Baha'i teachings are not, and never will be the cause of disunity.
In fact the true teachings of Judaism,
Hello David,
I know that the infallibility of the House is dependent on the
information received.
I understand this principle differently. As I see it, there is never a
problem
with the House's infallibility. Every statement or decision they make is
protected
from error and
hold for some open
ended questions, but for certain questions, that notion is silly.
Tim Nolan
-
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suicide. In
that case,
God did not test the person beyond his capacity, because by choosing not to
turn to God, the person did not use the full capacity (God's help) that was
available to him.
Tim Nolan
-
Any questions? Get answers on any topic
Hello Susan,
Tests don't stop until we die in any case.
Would you please tell me where in the writings it says that there will
be no more tests in the worlds after this one?
Thanks,
Tim
-
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and faster, have better eyesight and
hearing and sense of smell than humans have. It is our souls that give us
human capacity; the body is secondary.
Tim Nolan
-
We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
(and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty
I have been thinking about this question for a few weeks.
To what extent is modern global Islamic culture based on
Arab culture? For example this busines of women dressing
so they are covered from head to toe? I think the U.S. could certainly
benefit from more modesty, but the burkha
Don, Thanks for the references. Tim Don Calkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:"In considering matters of this sort the beloved Guardian has instructed that each case must be considered on its own merits, and that a decision in one case is not to act as precedent in another. Hence, in
Hello Scott,there is no such thing as 'precedent' in Baha`i jurisprudenceI have heard this many times but I have never seen it in the authoritative writings. Can you give a reference?Thanks, Tim Nolan
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ho had a vision uses that to tell other people what to do, then I would want evidence that the visionary's message was good and true. What about these resurrectionexperiences? Physical?Shoghi Effendi said the
stories about Christ's resurrection are symbolic; the resurrection was spiritual,
Hello Scott, to announce the publication of a novel I have written, with some references and quotes from the Baha`i faith tucked away within the story, Since it contains quotes and referencesabout the Faith, did you have to get approval from the Baha'i review committeewhere you
Hi Susan,Words in and of themselves have no instinsic meaning; they are just sounds.Yes. I think the book Finnegans Wake is a good example of this.But those that use them intend things by those sounds, and what they intend is the meaning. I see this the same way. Words do
all the divine qualities will also become realized." (Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha Section, p. 384)I agree with Margaret that real unity is impossible without truthfulness. However, it is possible to
tell the truth with courtesy and kindness; it is not usually necessary to be
m, as well as of the Baha'i Faith.I agree that if I pretended to be Christian, that would be dishonest on my part. As to what others do, that's not my concern. Tim Nolan
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Hi Gilberto,I think certain omissions are definitely the moral equivalent of lying.In the Bahai case we are talking about Bahai preacher not telling their audience thatthey were a different religion. I don't know the facts about Jamal Effendi, so I cannot comment on that.
ately to be God. So crude and fantastic a theory of Divine incarnation is as removed from, and incompatible with, the essentials of Bah' belief as are the no less inadmissible pantheistic and anthropomorphic conceptions of God -- " (Shoghi
Effendi, The World Order of Baha'u'llah, p. 112)
marry one another. That's not novel today, but in 1912, that was shocking.The Baha'i teachings say we should be truthful, but kind and loving at the same time.Tim Nolan
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to emulate His example, by following the guidance in the hadiths?Tim Nolan
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next world, how is it possible that there are no tests and trials there? It seems likely to me that we will not have free will in the next life. What do others think?Tim Nolan
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.Tim Nolan
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Thank you for letting me know."Richard H. Gravelly" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am in receipt thereof.Richard.- Original Message - From: Tim Nolan To: Baha'i Studies Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 6:36 PM Subject: How to know if your prayers are bein
ceive an email copy of my postings". It was already set to that, but I saved it just to be sure.So, this is not the source of the problem.Thanks for trying to help though. Tim Nolan
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sharing my experience.Tim Nolan
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Hi Gilberto,That's why I don't think that a newManifestation who will change things around is all that necessary.While remaining faithful to Islam, the rulings of scholars will takenew realities into account.You certainly have a right to your opinion. It seems that God does not
as changed everything. The telegraph was an important invention, but the internet has made it mostly irrelevant. We are at the dawn of a new age; the old categories no longer fit. Tim Nolan
Yahoo! Mail goes everywhere you do. Get it on your phone.
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Susan and Marleen,Could your own messages be going into your spam folder? I don't think so; I have no rule set up to do that. But I'll keep an eye out for this.Could yourpreferences or the settings of the list have been altered?That could be the reason. How do I see my list
the sameproblem?Tim Nolan
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otherwise. Tim Nolan
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Are there any proofs that we can produce that Bahai is an independentreligion? The Shaykh of the Al Azhar university in Cairo does not seem to think so.What proofs would he accept? The Baha'i Faith has independent sacred texts, a new calendar, a new Qiblih, laws which differ in some
Hello Janine,He feels that the Bahai faith is just a reiteration of Islam, nothing new. The Baha'i Faith has an explicit, written Covenant, which preserves the unity of the Baha'is. Islam doesn't have this, which is why there are rival Islamic factions. The Baha'i Covenant also
s why it's important to reflect on Baha'u'llah's words and the Guardian's words about Abdu'l Baha. Those quotes establish the framework within which to understand, however dimly, Abdu'l
Baha's statements. That's how I see it.With affectionate thoughts, Tim Nolan
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e or Paris Talks can be used as examples of errors, because those are not authenticated scripture. So what errors are you talking about?These are merely my personal views; I have no comment about what
others should believe. Tim Nolan
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bdu'l Baha was nothing more than a Great Guy. That's why it's important to reflect on Baha'u'llah's words and the Guardian's words about Abdu'l Baha. Those quotes establish the
framework within which to understand, however dimly, Abdu'l Baha's statements. That's how I see it.With affectionate thou
ld believe. Tim Nolan
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As I see it, any attempt to understand a Figure as noble, as pure, as majestic as Abdu'l Baha should rest on the foundation of what the sacred text says about Him. If a person takes these words to heart, it will help clear up misunderstandings, in my opinion.PRAISE be to Him Who hath
hat errors are you talking about?These are merely my personal views; I have no comment about what others should believe. Tim Nolan
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. But they are not omniscient. If better information comes along, the House maydecide to change a decision. That does not indicate that the first decision was wrong, it does indicate the first batch of information was not accurate.Tim Nolan
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tatement of profound importance, but I will miss that wisdom if I insist either that Abdu'l Baha was just "wrong", or if I insist that science must be wrong because it contradicts what Abdu'l Baha said. Either extreme leads me astray, as extremes usually do. With good wishes, Tim Nolan
Bl
I don't know, really. But, I wonder if a no-descendant could attain that "hereditary principle" which "sustains the law of God" as the Master said.This whole heredity issue becomes irrelevant after a few hundred years because, as others have said, everyone is related to everyone
the Covenant was also crystal clear about a continuing line of Guardians, so I don't think that really addresses Hasan's question about badaa. The Will and Testament is clear about how future Guardians were to be chosen, but that document does not guarantee that there will always be a
I am curious about the purpose of discussing this topic, given that none of us will be around in 900 years to see what happens.If in a discussion, someone raises the possibility that the House of Justice might lose its infallibility after the thousand years have passed, how does that
come later, usually in a gradual way.With Friendly Thoughts, Tim Nolan
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nsure their appropriate application; religious convictions, no matterhow cherished they may be, must submit, willingly and gratefully, toimpartial testing by scientific methods." Tim Nolan
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nsure their appropriate application; religious convictions, no matterhow cherished they may be, must submit, willingly and gratefully, toimpartial testing by scientific methods." Tim Nolan
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