[cctalk] Re: BASIC and other languraes

I very much miss CMS PIPELINES which was ported to MVS, but afaik never beyond IBM mainframes.

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

I recall IITRAN for the IBM 7044, and am i correct that there was an IITRAN for the Univac 1108, which was significantly different? --Carey > On 05/01/2024 6:37 PM CDT Sellam Abraham via cctalk > wrote: > > > On Wed, May 1, 2024 at 4:36 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk > wrote: > > > To be

[cctalk] Re: Diablo Model 40 Series - Disturbed head positioning

Hi Marc ! It should be so great if it was just the PSU, everything else is hyper overkill in terms of complexity but on the multimeter all the voltages show the correct values, including +15V and -15V (generated from the +24V and -24V of the power supply). But is it possible that one of these

[cctalk] Re: What to take to a vintage computer show

And a long scarf? --Carey > On 05/02/2024 12:26 AM CDT Ali via cctalk wrote: > > > > > > Don't forget to bring a towel. > > > > Sellam > > The fact that we all probably got that reference is the amazing part. > > -Ali

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

Gavin Scott via cctalk [02/05/2024 05.44]: BASIC was always a popular language in the Hewlett-Packard world. From the HP 2000 timesharing BASIC that was popular in educational settings similar to the original DTSS, To BASIC/3000 on the HP 3000 which was a first-class language with both

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

I learnt to program at uni on prompt-48, an 8048 development system. Hand-coded assembly, entered in hex and saved to EPROM. Later I moved to z80 with an assembler hosted on a pdp 11/34. Later still I had to do a customer project specified to be written in BASIC on an apple II (no square brackets

[cctalk] Re: APL (Was: BASIC

On Thu, 2 May 2024 at 00:51, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > > What would our world be like if the first home computers were to have had > APL, instead of BASIC? To be perfectly honest I think the home computer boom wouldn't have happened, and it would have crashed and burned in the 1970s, with

[cctalk] Re: What to take to a vintage computer show

A lot of people regret it later because they dont think they'll need it when packing but I always bring a bathing suit just in case. The vcf exhibitor pool is a nice way to relax after a long day of showing. On Thu, May 2, 2024, 1:13 AM Sellam Abraham via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

> On May 1, 2024, at 6:26 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk > wrote: > > The Beginners All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code (BASIC) > > Developed by John G. Kemeny and Thomas E. Kurtz at Dartmouth College in 1963. > This ran on the Dartmouth Time Sharing System (DTSS) which was an early time >

[cctalk] Re: APL (Was: BASIC

> On May 2, 2024, at 6:55 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk > wrote: > > On Thu, 2 May 2024 at 00:51, Fred Cisin via cctalk > wrote: >> >> What would our world be like if the first home computers were to have had >> APL, instead of BASIC? > > To be perfectly honest I think the home computer boom

[cctalk] Re: APL (Was: BASIC

On 5/2/24 07:02, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > > My guess is that the languages you use routinely are the ones that work best, > and which languages those are depends on where you work and on what projects. > For example, I don't *like* C (I call it a "feebly typed language") and C++ > not

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

On 5/1/24 18:43, Norman Jaffe via cctalk wrote: APL is very much alive - it was invented in the '60s. Lisp is slightly older and it, as well, is still in active use - and it's older than FORTRAN, which was the inspiration for BASIC. Lisp is VERY VERY much alive, but rarely seen.  The emacs

[cctalk] Re: MS-DOS source code

On Thu, 2 May 2024, Will Cooke via cctalk wrote: Some may find this interesting. Microsoft has released the source for MS-DOS versions 1.25, 2, and 4. https://github.com/microsoft/MS-DOS I think the most interesting thing about this is that they published it under an actual open source

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

Gavin Scott via cctalk wrote: BASIC was always a popular language in the Hewlett-Packard world. From the HP 2000 timesharing BASIC that was popular in educational settings similar to the original DTSS, To BASIC/3000 on the HP 3000 which was a first-class language with both interpreter and

[cctalk] Re: APL (Was: BASIC

On 02/05/2024 01:51, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: What would our world be like if the first home computers were to have had APL, instead of BASIC? I don't know, but if you had asked "What would our world be like if the first home computers were to have had SmallTalk or even ALGOL instead of

[cctalk] Re: APL (Was: BASIC

On 5/2/24 05:55, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: On Thu, 2 May 2024 at 00:51, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: What would our world be like if the first home computers were to have had APL, instead of BASIC? To be perfectly honest I think the home computer boom wouldn't have happened, and it would

[cctalk] Re: MS-DOS source code

It's historically interesting, plus it might help the FreeDOS folks plug some compatibility holes since they can now legally look at the old code to see how it does things. Mike On Thu, May 2, 2024, 9:53 AM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > On 5/2/2024 9:27 AM,

[cctalk] Re: APL (Was: BASIC

I was lucky enough to have worked initially in Focal and FORTRAN at UW (Seattle) and moved on to PL/I, Pascal and APL at SFU (Burnaby, B.C.) while being exposed to Algol, BASIC, C, GPSS, Smalltalk, Simula, SNOBOL4, XPL and many other 'esoteric' languages. Of course, various Assemblers were in

[cctalk] Re: MS-DOS source code

On 5/2/2024 9:27 AM, geneb via cctalk wrote: On Thu, 2 May 2024, Will Cooke via cctalk wrote: Some may find this interesting.  Microsoft has released the source for MS-DOS versions 1.25, 2, and 4. https://github.com/microsoft/MS-DOS I think the most interesting thing about this is that

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

> On May 1, 2024, at 6:44 PM, Wayne S via cctalk wrote: > > IMHO, “C” nomenclature really screwed up the equality vs assignment > statements. The == made it difficult to understand especially if you came > from a language that didn’t have it. Basically all languages before “C”. Well, sort

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

On 5/1/24 23:00, CAREY SCHUG via cctalk wrote: > I recall IITRAN for the IBM 7044, and am i correct that there was an IITRAN > for the Univac 1108, which was significantly different? I believe that IITRAN was moved from the 7040 to a 360/40 for a few years, then to an Univac 1108. All

[cctalk] Re: What to take to a vintage computer show

I learned at VCF East this year that I should have brought an UPS to make sure that my vintage equipment had good, clean AC power.  My PDP11 kept on resetting during the show. Doug On 5/1/2024 9:53 PM, Brad H via cctalk wrote: Just reaching out to anyone who has exhibited at a vintage

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

I'll add a postscript with my reaction upon seeing my first Microsoft Visual BASIC program code: "What the hell is this? It's not BASIC!" --Chuck

[cctalk] Re: APL (Was: BASIC

I’m not certain what constitutes the original foundations of BASIC(Beginner’s All-Purpose Symbolic Instruction Code) but to my knowledge it began with J. G. Kemeny and T. E. Kurtz at Dartmouth College in 1964. Apple BASIC and GWBASIC were well established when I began experimenting with them in

[cctalk] MS-DOS source code

Some may find this interesting. Microsoft has released the source for MS-DOS versions 1.25, 2, and 4. https://github.com/microsoft/MS-DOS Will Grownups never understand anything by themselves and it is tiresome for children to be always and forever explaining things to them, Antoine de

[cctalk] Re: MS-DOS source code

On Thu, May 2, 2024, 7:27 AM geneb via cctalk wrote: > On Thu, 2 May 2024, Will Cooke via cctalk wrote: > > > Some may find this interesting. Microsoft has released the source for > MS-DOS versions 1.25, 2, and 4. > > > > https://github.com/microsoft/MS-DOS > > > > I think the most interesting

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

> On May 2, 2024, at 2:30 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk > wrote: > > Microsoft loves to take languages developed by others and transmogrify them > into the "Microsoft Universe". > > Quick Basic, Visual Java, Visual Basic, Visual C# (barely resembles C) and > the worst offender of all Visual

[cctalk] Re: What to take to a vintage computer show

Less interesting answer but being multiples of any cables you're relying on. If presenting, multiple HDMI/output cables (I've seen HDMI cables not work in specific setups and another cable would for unknown reasons). Display cards or tags describing what you have on the table and what is

[cctalk] Re: APL (Was: BASIC

The first "professional software" I wrote (almost) out of University in 1979 was a package to emulate the mainframe APL\Plus file primitives on a CP/M APL variant. Used to facilitate porting of mainframe APL applications to microcomputers. I'm still an APL adherent since the late 1960s, but it

[cctalk] Re: APL (Was: BASIC

> On May 2, 2024, at 3:50 PM, Lee Courtney via cctalk > wrote: > > The first "professional software" I wrote (almost) out of University in > 1979 was a package to emulate the mainframe APL\Plus file primitives on a > CP/M APL variant. Used to facilitate porting of mainframe APL applications

[cctalk] Re: What to take to a vintage computer show

On 2024-05-01 11:26 p.m., Ali via cctalk wrote: Don't forget to bring a towel. Sellam The fact that we all probably got that reference is the amazing part. -Ali What no white mouse trap!

[cctalk] Re: BASIC and other languraes

> On May 1, 2024, at 11:03 PM, CAREY SCHUG via cctalk > wrote: > > I very much miss CMS PIPELINES which was ported to MVS, but afaik never > beyond IBM mainframes. > CMS PIPELINES was a mainframe implementation of a “standard" UNIX facility (with some small extensions, e.g. multiplexed

[cctalk] Re: APL (Was: BASIC

On 2024-05-02 4:55 a.m., Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: On Thu, 2 May 2024 at 00:51, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: What would our world be like if the first home computers were to have had APL, instead of BASIC? To be perfectly honest I think the home computer boom wouldn't have happened, and

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

> On May 2, 2024, at 4:23 PM, Gordon Henderson via cctalk > wrote: > > ... > I'm told Lua is the new Basic or Python is the new Basic, but the best thing > for me about Basic on the old micros was being able to turn the computer on > and type Basic into it immediately And to that end,

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

On Wed, 1 May 2024, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: Let's hear your earliest introduction to BASIC. The first computer I used ran BASIC - HP9830A. I was at school in Edinburgh in '77/'78. I was 15/16 at the time. The "stupid computer" beat me at "NIM" then the teacher showed me the listing -

[cctalk] Re: What to take to a vintage computer show

I agree on the UPS! Power can be inconsistent at shows On Thu, May 2, 2024, 12:02 PM Douglas Taylor via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > I learned at VCF East this year that I should have brought an UPS to > make sure that my vintage equipment had good, clean AC power. My PDP11 > kept

[cctalk] Re: What to take to a vintage computer show

I had a similar experience at VCF Midwest where the line voltage was as low as 90 VAC.  My area was without power for about 2 hours during setup. On 5/2/2024 11:01 AM, Douglas Taylor via cctalk wrote: I learned at VCF East this year that I should have brought an UPS to make sure that my

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

Microsoft loves to take languages developed by others and transmogrify them into the "Microsoft Universe". Quick Basic, Visual Java, Visual Basic, Visual C# (barely resembles C) and the worst offender of all Visual C++ .NET. Your post reminded me that Postscript is an actual programming

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

On 5/2/24 13:59, Gavin Scott via cctalk wrote: > There's also Geoff Graham's BASIC for the Pi Pico. > > https://geoffg.net/picomite.html Then there's the 8042 MCU-embedded BASIC, the BASIC stamp, etc. I have a little MicroPy board here that's fun to play with. --Chuck

[cctalk] Re: APL (Was: BASIC

Paul, Is this the Lambda/VLSI Design magazine you refer to: Lynn Conway's VLSI Archive: Main Links (umich.edu) ? Thanks! Lee On Thu, May 2, 2024 at 1:00 PM Paul Koning wrote: > > > > On May 2, 2024, at

[cctalk] Re: APL (Was: BASIC

> On May 2, 2024, at 8:45 PM, Paul Koning wrote: > > Yes, it sure is. I was mistaken about it being the first issue. Instead, > the RSA article appears in Vol. 1 No. 3 (4Q80). Too bad the article itself > isn't included in the scanned material. Ah, but it does show up elsewhere:

[cctalk] Re: APL (Was: BASIC

Yes, it sure is. I was mistaken about it being the first issue. Instead, the RSA article appears in Vol. 1 No. 3 (4Q80). Too bad the article itself isn't included in the scanned material. paul > On May 2, 2024, at 8:39 PM, Lee Courtney wrote: > > Paul, > > Is this the Lambda/VLSI

[cctalk] Re: IITRAN [was: BASIC

Thanks, I was kind of thinking there was a 360 in the middle, but... Now that you mention it, I remember the 360 being added to the basement computer center. I think they moved the 78044 to the back and put the 360 where it used to be, or maybe first installed the 360 in the back, then

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

Thinking back over the last couple of months, I realize that most of my recent programming has been in Linux Bash scripts. --Chuck

[cctalk] Re: pipelines [was:BASIC and other languages]

Can you direct me to documenation for UNIX pipelines that includes even 10% as much as CURRENT mainframe PIPELINES? Which is at least 10x what mainframe was when I lost access to it. Multiplexing alone is an order of magnitude increase in the power of pipelines, not something which is only

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

There's also Geoff Graham's BASIC for the Pi Pico. https://geoffg.net/picomite.html On Thu, May 2, 2024 at 3:32 PM Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > > > > > On May 2, 2024, at 4:23 PM, Gordon Henderson via cctalk > > wrote: > > > > ... > > I'm told Lua is the new Basic or Python is the new

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

compiled basics too longer to run and debug because of the compile time. Anything I did was limited to floppy disk, or later even hard disk speed, the greater speed from compiling could not be noticed. --Carey > On 05/02/2024 9:51 PM CDT Just Kant via cctalk wrote: > > > BASICs available

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

BASICs available at bootup were nice, but really were only useful with 8 bit micros. IBM ROM BASIC was hobbled until you ran BASICA from disk. And if you had a floppy it only made sense to buy a cheap compiler (Quick Basic, Turbo Basic, etc.). Whatever you were missing by not dropping 4-500$

[cctalk] Re: Diablo Model 40 Series - Disturbed head positioning

Yes the oscilloscope are your eyes and ears for electrons… Marc > On May 1, 2024, at 11:44 PM, Dominique Carlier wrote: > > Hi Marc ! > > It should be so great if it was just the PSU, everything else is hyper > overkill in terms of complexity but on the multimeter all the voltages show >