Re: [coreboot] coreboot is going to make kcma-d8 obsolete

[Leah Rowe]

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On 07/04/18 16:03, Ward Vandewege wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 02:25:19PM +0100, Leah Rowe wrote:
>> If you've got a D16 to submit reports on, that'd also be great.
> 
> I just pushed one on the D16.
> 
> Thanks, Ward.
> 

thanks! :)



- -- 
Leah Rowe

Libreboot developer and project founder.

Use free software. Free as in freedom.
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Re: [coreboot] coreboot is going to make kcma-d8 obsolete

[David Hendricks]

>
> There's obviously a few people on this list using the Asus boards mentioned
> which is great. The issue we need to solve is getting more people to submit
> test results so that this isn't a problem in the future.
>
> Even if I didn't use mine for something important I am unable to submit
> results because I refuse to provide my "real" name and am too honest to use
> a fake name.
>

As I understand the DCO is only required for code submissions, while
board_status results are auto-generated and don't require a sign-off. Not
sure how Patrick and others feel about allowing aliases to be used for
gerrit accounts though.
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Re: [coreboot] coreboot is going to make kcma-d8 obsolete

[taii...@gmx.com]

Thanks for everyone who has submitted status reports and now proved that
they work.

BTW the boards devices support ASPM so you can remove the pcie_aspm=off
in your kernel command line - I like to force it on myself with
pcie_aspm=force.

On 04/06/2018 09:54 PM, David Hendricks wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 6, 2018 at 3:40 PM, taii...@gmx.com  wrote:
>> Like I have said before these types of policies are eventually going to
>> result in coreboot only having unobtainable development boards in the
>> tree (that are of course not owner controlled)
>>
>> It simply isn't right.
> Indeed, this isn't right (as in correct) so don't spread this FUD. The
> boards are still in the tree, you just need to check out whatever coreboot
> version is known to actually work with the board. For example if a board
> was last reported working in coreboot-4.6, then `git checkout 4.6` or
> checkout a specific hash reported on the board_status repo.
I swear I heard "removed from the tree" somewhere - irregardless only
unobtainable closed-source development boards will benefit from new
coreboot features.

Eventually the old versions of coreboot will become non-functional for
whatever reason so it won't be that simple (ie: don't checkout master)
if one doesn't require the new features - already for example there are
various old libs that coreboot requires which are only available
*unsigned* from a single site.
> It does no good for users to have hundreds of boards in master that fail to
> boot, and no good for developers who need to maintain and refactor code for
> boards that nobody tests and have been abandoned.
I am not complaining because some random boards from 2005 that no one
uses are being removed - this is because the last owner controlled
x86_64 boards will eventually be functionally removed (and would have
been if no one had submitted status for the D8).

This isn't hundreds of boards that fail to boot - it is a few boards
that do boot - and people know that they do (as everyone can see now
that status have been submitted :D)

As an example I don't mind the removal of the H8SCM because AGESA
doesn't support IOMMU and the boards are now quite expensive (and not
worth it for the money).
> There's obviously a few people on this list using the Asus boards mentioned
> which is great. The issue we need to solve is getting more people to submit
> test results so that this isn't a problem in the future.
Even if I didn't use mine for something important I am unable to submit
results because I refuse to provide my "real" name and am too honest to
use a fake name.


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Re: [coreboot] coreboot is going to make kcma-d8 obsolete

[Patrick Georgi via coreboot]

taii...@gmx.com  schrieb am Sa., 7. Apr. 2018, 14:39:

> that doesn't mean boards that people
> know are functional should be removed from coreboot just because.
>
> I highly doubt these policies happen in a vacuum.

That particular policy was created because we consider it worse to pretend
that we support boards on master that are untested for a long time just to
inflate numbers and to keep personal pet projects around long after their
due date.

The simple solution is to show every now and then that the board still
boots with master (and fix up issues). Which is exactly what we ask for.

Patrick
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Re: [coreboot] coreboot is going to make kcma-d8 obsolete

[Ward Vandewege]

On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 02:25:19PM +0100, Leah Rowe wrote:
> If you've got a D16 to submit reports on, that'd also be great.

I just pushed one on the D16.

Thanks,
Ward.

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Re: [coreboot] coreboot is going to make kcma-d8 obsolete

[ron minnich]

On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 2:54 AM Leah Rowe  wrote:

>
>
> I'll be really upset if D8/D16, or any libreboot-supported hardware,
> is removed from coreboot.git.
>
>
>

and as David has pointed, it never is or will be. It's always there. I
don't understand your point here. LinuxBIOS V1 is in git, and everything in
between. So why do you say that things are being "removed"?
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Re: [coreboot] coreboot is going to make kcma-d8 obsolete

[Carl-Daniel Hailfinger]

On 07.04.2018 14:37, taii...@gmx.com wrote:
> Yeah x86 is dead freedomwise but that doesn't mean boards that people
> know are functional should be removed from coreboot just because.

If people knew that those boards are functional, they would not get
removed from git master.

Sorry, lots of testimonies from people running ancient versions of
coreboot on any given board does by definition not constitute knowledge
about the functionality of current git master on that board.

Regards,
Carl-Daniel

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Re: [coreboot] coreboot is going to make kcma-d8 obsolete

[Peter Stuge]

Leah Rowe wrote:
> I'll be really upset if D8/D16, or any libreboot-supported hardware,
> is removed from coreboot.git.

It's straightforward for you to avoid that: Contribute board status information.

Open source only works reliably for me when I accept that I am responsible
for my own needs.

Unfortunately, what that means gets underestimated quite often, by
newcomers and experienced experts alike, and many organizations already
got really upset when they couldn't merely consume open source.

Please stay proactive to avoid such problems; at a minimum they cause
undue stress both for you and for communities which don't work exactly
as you would like.


Thanks a lot and take care

//Peter

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Re: [coreboot] coreboot is going to make kcma-d8 obsolete

[Leah Rowe]

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Hi Daniel

On 07/04/18 14:13, Daniel Gröber wrote:
> Anyways, I figured it out now and uploadded the status report.
> 
> --Daniel
> 

Thanks :)

Can you also do this on a periodic basis?

If you've got a D16 to submit reports on, that'd also be great.

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Leah Rowe

Libreboot developer and project founder.

Use free software. Free as in freedom.
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html

Use a free BIOS - https://libreboot.org/
Use a free operating system, GNU+Linux.

Support computer user freedom
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Re: [coreboot] coreboot is going to make kcma-d8 obsolete

[Daniel Gröber]

On Fri, Apr 06, 2018 at 07:14:47PM -0700, David Hendricks wrote:
> Which wiki? For commit rights, have you tried https://www.coreboot.org/Git#
> Register_with_gerrit ? I just updated the board status wiki to hopefully make 
> that step
> easier to follow.

Ah, I was looking all over "Developer Guide", "Getting Started" type
things and somehow did't see the Git page :)

Having a pointer in the Board Status description straight to the Git
page is definetly better though.

> Please let us know where you get stuck. Many of us set up our accounts years 
> ago and the
> documentation may be stale or non-obvious to newcomers, so a fresh 
> perspective is
> welcome.

I just didn't realise all that was needed is a gerrit account, I
though the board status would be some seperate repo where you can push
directly without review.

Anyways, I figured it out now and uploadded the status report.

--Daniel



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Re: [coreboot] coreboot is going to make kcma-d8 obsolete

[taii...@gmx.com]

On 04/06/2018 09:06 PM, ron minnich wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 6, 2018 at 5:45 PM Thierry Laurion  
> wrote:
>
>> I agree. This is wrong.
>> Kgpe-d16 and alike are the last resorts for x86 blob free hardware.
>>
>> This NEEDS to be kept maintained and upstreamed.
> I like the board too. I have one. I have no time to keep it going. I have
> not even turned it on in months.
>
> Now that I think about it, my board has an EM100. I can try to automate the
> mess if I can remember where the directions are. I also need to work out
> remote reset :-) -- any hints on what to buy to make that go?
>
> Realistically, though, if you want blob free, I think you need power9 or
> riscv.
Of course, but the D16/D8 are fine for legacy x86 applications that some
people need to run and they are both blob free, the last x86 boards that
are.
> I've written x86 off for blob free. I'm sad about that, given where
> we were in 2000 and where we are today, but there's not much to be done for
> it. AMD and Intel just don't see this as a priority :-(
Yeah x86 is dead freedomwise but that doesn't mean boards that people
know are functional should be removed from coreboot just because.

I highly doubt these policies happen in a vacuum.


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Re: [coreboot] coreboot is going to make kcma-d8 obsolete

[Leah Rowe]

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On 07/04/18 01:43, Daniel Gröber wrote:
> I'd be happy to upload a board-status report if someone can give
> me (or tell me how to get) commit rights for the appropriate repo.
> I cannot for the life of me figure out what the proper procedure
> for that is just from the wiki.
> 
> I just recently started playing around with my KCMA-D8 and
> coreboot, so I still got it right here on my desk :)
> 
> --Daniel

Thank you Daniel.

if anyone can test D16 too, that'd be great.

I'll be really upset if D8/D16, or any libreboot-supported hardware,
is removed from coreboot.git.

- -- 
Leah Rowe

Libreboot developer and project founder.

Use free software. Free as in freedom.
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html

Use a free BIOS - https://libreboot.org/
Use a free operating system, GNU+Linux.

Support computer user freedom
https://sfconservancy.org/
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Re: [coreboot] coreboot is going to make kcma-d8 obsolete

[Leah Rowe]

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sorry, i emailed the wrong person. i meant to email someone else


On 06/04/18 22:14, Leah Rowe wrote:
> hi,
> 
> https://mail.coreboot.org/pipermail/coreboot/2018-April/086449.html
>
>  please do all relevant tests and submit a "coreboot status" report
> on asus kgpe-dcma8. you use this board for "critical" applications 
> relative to your own interests, 
> e.d.ghttps://mail.coreboot.org/pipermail/coreboot/2018-April/086449.ht
ml
>
> 
.
> asus kgpe dpge-d16 d16
> 
> coreboot has a policy of deleting source code (read: maintenance)
> of "unmaintained" boards). please test coreboot (per coreboot
> policies) on this board, and submit "board status" information, so
> that the asus kcma-d8 source code isn't (literally. please read
> that literally) deleted from coreboot.bit
> 
> (by extension, this applies to ASUS KGPE D16)
> 
> Don't blame me for coreboot's shortsightedness on this matter. I 
> simply wish for coreboot.git to continue remaining official 
> maintenance of what remains of the maintenance of libre-friendly 
> hardware, within the coreboot project)
> 

- -- 
Leah Rowe

Libreboot developer and project founder.

Use free software. Free as in freedom.
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html

Use a free BIOS - https://libreboot.org/
Use a free operating system, GNU+Linux.

Support computer user freedom
https://sfconservancy.org/
https://fsf.org/ - https://gnu.org/

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Re: [coreboot] coreboot is going to make kcma-d8 obsolete

[David Hendricks]

On Fri, Apr 6, 2018 at 5:43 PM, Daniel Gröber  wrote:

> I'd be happy to upload a board-status report if someone can give me
> (or tell me how to get) commit rights for the appropriate repo. I
> cannot for the life of me figure out what the proper procedure for
> that is just from the wiki.
>
> I just recently started playing around with my KCMA-D8 and coreboot,
> so I still got it right here on my desk :)
>

Hi Daniel,
Thanks for volunteering!

Which wiki? For commit rights, have you tried
https://www.coreboot.org/Git#Register_with_gerrit ? I just updated the
board status wiki to hopefully make that step easier to follow.

Please let us know where you get stuck. Many of us set up our accounts
years ago and the documentation may be stale or non-obvious to newcomers,
so a fresh perspective is welcome.
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Re: [coreboot] coreboot is going to make kcma-d8 obsolete

[David Hendricks]

On Fri, Apr 6, 2018 at 3:40 PM, taii...@gmx.com  wrote:

> Like I have said before these types of policies are eventually going to
> result in coreboot only having unobtainable development boards in the
> tree (that are of course not owner controlled)
>
> It simply isn't right.
>

Indeed, this isn't right (as in correct) so don't spread this FUD. The
boards are still in the tree, you just need to check out whatever coreboot
version is known to actually work with the board. For example if a board
was last reported working in coreboot-4.6, then `git checkout 4.6` or
checkout a specific hash reported on the board_status repo.

It does no good for users to have hundreds of boards in master that fail to
boot, and no good for developers who need to maintain and refactor code for
boards that nobody tests and have been abandoned.

There's obviously a few people on this list using the Asus boards mentioned
which is great. The issue we need to solve is getting more people to submit
test results so that this isn't a problem in the future.
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Re: [coreboot] coreboot is going to make kcma-d8 obsolete

[ron minnich]

On Fri, Apr 6, 2018 at 5:45 PM Thierry Laurion 
wrote:

> I agree. This is wrong.
> Kgpe-d16 and alike are the last resorts for x86 blob free hardware.
>
> This NEEDS to be kept maintained and upstreamed.
>
>
>
I like the board too. I have one. I have no time to keep it going. I have
not even turned it on in months.

Now that I think about it, my board has an EM100. I can try to automate the
mess if I can remember where the directions are. I also need to work out
remote reset :-) -- any hints on what to buy to make that go?

Realistically, though, if you want blob free, I think you need power9 or
riscv. I've written x86 off for blob free. I'm sad about that, given where
we were in 2000 and where we are today, but there's not much to be done for
it. AMD and Intel just don't see this as a priority :-(

ron
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Re: [coreboot] coreboot is going to make kcma-d8 obsolete

[Daniel Gröber]

I'd be happy to upload a board-status report if someone can give me
(or tell me how to get) commit rights for the appropriate repo. I
cannot for the life of me figure out what the proper procedure for
that is just from the wiki.

I just recently started playing around with my KCMA-D8 and coreboot,
so I still got it right here on my desk :)

--Daniel

On Fri, Apr 06, 2018 at 04:44:35PM -0500, Timothy Pearson wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> I might be able to get a report in.  Need to pull a machine out of
> production though to do it, so it could be a bit (have to wait for a
> maintainance window).
> 
> On 04/06/2018 04:18 PM, Felipe Sanches wrote:
> > isn't git commit history forever?
> > 
> > 2018-04-06 18:14 GMT-03:00 Leah Rowe  > >:
> > 
> > hi,
> > 
> > https://mail.coreboot.org/pipermail/coreboot/2018-April/086449.html
> > 
> > 
> > please do all relevant tests and submit a "coreboot status" report on
> > asus kgpe-dcma8. you use this board for "critical" applications
> > relative to your own interests,
> > e.d.ghttps://mail.coreboot.org/pipermail/coreboot/2018-April/086449.html
> > 
> > .
> > asus kgpe dpge-d16 d16
> > 
> > coreboot has a policy of deleting source code (read: maintenance) of
> > "unmaintained" boards). please test coreboot (per coreboot policies)
> > on this board, and submit "board status" information, so that the asus
> > kcma-d8 source code isn't (literally. please read that literally)
> > deleted from coreboot.bit
> > 
> > (by extension, this applies to ASUS KGPE D16)
> > 
> > Don't blame me for coreboot's shortsightedness on this matter. I
> > simply wish for coreboot.git to continue remaining official
> > maintenance of what remains of the maintenance of libre-friendly
> > hardware, within the coreboot project)
> 
> - --
> coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org
> 
> https://mail.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - -- 
> Timothy Pearson
> Raptor Engineering
> +1 (415) 727-8645 (direct line)
> +1 (512) 690-0200 (switchboard)
> https://www.raptorengineering.com
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> 
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Re: [coreboot] coreboot is going to make kcma-d8 obsolete

[Thierry Laurion]

I agree. This is wrong.
Kgpe-d16 and alike are the last resorts for x86 blob free hardware.

This NEEDS to be kept maintained and upstreamed.

Le ven. 6 avr. 2018 18:41, taii...@gmx.com  a écrit :

> Like I have said before these types of policies are eventually going to
> result in coreboot only having unobtainable development boards in the
> tree (that are of course not owner controlled)
>
> It simply isn't right.
>
> How can one learn firmware programming when all the available boards
> have hardware initiated via binary blobs? This is what the standards
> create.
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> https://mail.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
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Re: [coreboot] coreboot is going to make kcma-d8 obsolete

[taii...@gmx.com]

Like I have said before these types of policies are eventually going to
result in coreboot only having unobtainable development boards in the
tree (that are of course not owner controlled)

It simply isn't right.

How can one learn firmware programming when all the available boards
have hardware initiated via binary blobs? This is what the standards create.


0xDF372A17.asc
Description: application/pgp-keys
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Re: [coreboot] coreboot is going to make kcma-d8 obsolete

[Timothy Pearson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

I might be able to get a report in.  Need to pull a machine out of
production though to do it, so it could be a bit (have to wait for a
maintainance window).

On 04/06/2018 04:18 PM, Felipe Sanches wrote:
> isn't git commit history forever?
> 
> 2018-04-06 18:14 GMT-03:00 Leah Rowe  >:
> 
> hi,
> 
> https://mail.coreboot.org/pipermail/coreboot/2018-April/086449.html
> 
> 
> please do all relevant tests and submit a "coreboot status" report on
> asus kgpe-dcma8. you use this board for "critical" applications
> relative to your own interests,
> e.d.ghttps://mail.coreboot.org/pipermail/coreboot/2018-April/086449.html
> 
> .
> asus kgpe dpge-d16 d16
> 
> coreboot has a policy of deleting source code (read: maintenance) of
> "unmaintained" boards). please test coreboot (per coreboot policies)
> on this board, and submit "board status" information, so that the asus
> kcma-d8 source code isn't (literally. please read that literally)
> deleted from coreboot.bit
> 
> (by extension, this applies to ASUS KGPE D16)
> 
> Don't blame me for coreboot's shortsightedness on this matter. I
> simply wish for coreboot.git to continue remaining official
> maintenance of what remains of the maintenance of libre-friendly
> hardware, within the coreboot project)

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- -- 
Timothy Pearson
Raptor Engineering
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+1 (512) 690-0200 (switchboard)
https://www.raptorengineering.com
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Re: [coreboot] coreboot is going to make kcma-d8 obsolete

[Felipe Sanches]

isn't git commit history forever?

2018-04-06 18:14 GMT-03:00 Leah Rowe :

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA256
>
> hi,
>
> https://mail.coreboot.org/pipermail/coreboot/2018-April/086449.html
>
> please do all relevant tests and submit a "coreboot status" report on
> asus kgpe-dcma8. you use this board for "critical" applications
> relative to your own interests,
> e.d.ghttps://mail.coreboot.org/pipermail/coreboot/2018-April/086449.html
> .
> asus kgpe dpge-d16 d16
>
> coreboot has a policy of deleting source code (read: maintenance) of
> "unmaintained" boards). please test coreboot (per coreboot policies)
> on this board, and submit "board status" information, so that the asus
> kcma-d8 source code isn't (literally. please read that literally)
> deleted from coreboot.bit
>
> (by extension, this applies to ASUS KGPE D16)
>
> Don't blame me for coreboot's shortsightedness on this matter. I
> simply wish for coreboot.git to continue remaining official
> maintenance of what remains of the maintenance of libre-friendly
> hardware, within the coreboot project)
> - --
> Leah Rowe
>
> Libreboot developer and project founder.
>
> Use free software. Free as in freedom.
> https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
>
> Use a free BIOS - https://libreboot.org/
> Use a free operating system, GNU+Linux.
>
> Support computer user freedom
> https://sfconservancy.org/
> https://fsf.org/ - https://gnu.org/
>
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> No. 9361826 | VAT No. GB202190462
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>
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