Re: [LincolnTalk] Planning Board Meeting, Tuesday 5/14 at 7 p.

2024-05-14 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
Thanks so much Deb! This looks like an important meeting! On Mon, May 13, 2024 at 11:09 PM Deborah Howe via Lincoln < lincoln@lincolntalk.org> wrote: > Hi, Lincoln Talkers — > > Private citizen writing to let you know that the Planning Board will > convene Tuesday night (5/14) at 7 pm in a

Re: [LincolnTalk] Lincoln's Governance

2024-01-03 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
residents. This should be published on the town website and available to residents at town meeting with the official meeting materials. Sarah Postlethwait On Wed, Jan 3, 2024 at 7:15 PM Robert Domnitz wrote: > On December 8, 2023, WBUR's On Point posted a podcast of a discussion > betwee

Re: [LincolnTalk] Planning Board meeting Friday morning

2024-01-03 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
Good afternoon! Is there any update on the site plan at the mall? Ms Barnes stated designs would be released in Early December, and they haven’t been shown to the public at this point, a month later. Thank you! Sarah Postlethwait On Wed, Jan 3, 2024 at 11:23 AM Jennifer Glass via Lincoln

Re: [LincolnTalk] squirrels

2023-12-31 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
I’m not really sure how anyone can defend inhumanly and illegally drowning animals. It’s a cruel death with or without antifreeze, and is universally considered inhumane, which is why it was banned in 2018 in MA. As seen in this thread, much better solutions exist that don’t even involve killing

Re: [LincolnTalk] Town Meeting- Big Picture

2023-12-22 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
I can agree with that Adam! It would be great if presentations were also limited to 20 minutes. Sarah Postlethwait On Fri, Dec 22, 2023 at 4:56 PM Adam M Hogue wrote: > Another big suggestion would be move the recognition of people to the > end. Last town meeting we spent close to 2

Re: [LincolnTalk] HCA revolt in Milton

2023-12-20 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
in Lincoln in decades. Sarah Postlethwait Lewis St On Wed, Dec 20, 2023 at 12:37 PM Laura Glynn wrote: > I may be wrong (as usual) but the refusal of the opponents to Option C to > accept that Option C was duly passed at a duly called and held town meeting > is eerily similar to those

Re: [LincolnTalk] Zoom: Select discussion on Town Meeting 12/18/2023

2023-12-19 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
Like all things in Lincoln- if you want it, you’ll have to fight for it. The moderator is against change in general, and it seems that the “clickers” are unlikely to be purchased until after March, if at all. There was debate about town meeting being a time to “stand and make your voice heard”

Re: [LincolnTalk] Wow 800 Lincoln folk vote at STM

2023-12-18 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
Jim- Thanks so much for taking the lead on revamping Lincoln’s town meeting process. It’s truly appreciated! Sarah Postlethwait On Mon, Dec 18, 2023 at 7:25 AM Jim Hutchinson wrote: > Hi to all those interested in voting technology and process, > > > > We’ll be discussing these

Re: [LincolnTalk] Retail/Mall

2023-12-16 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
, if they can afford a rent increase, and if they plan to stay after the redevelopment. Sarah Postlethwait Lewis Street On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 4:33 PM Karla Gravis wrote: > “Do the stores get enough foot traffic to remain viable? Is the mall > considered high enough quality space to attract new

Re: [LincolnTalk] Way back machine help

2023-12-10 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
No llamas, but seasons four in Lexington has goats you can feed and pet. On Sun, Dec 10, 2023 at 10:56 AM wayne vetrone wrote: > I am hoping someone can help me with my faulty memory. My oldest son, 22, > reminded us of a garden center that we got a tree at about 15 years ago > that had small

[LincolnTalk] ISO magnatiles (or similar)

2023-12-08 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
more sets would be much appreciated so all the kids can build their awesome creations! Feel free to message me privately and I would be more than happy to pick them up! Sarah Postlethwait -- The LincolnTalk mailing list. To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org. Browse the archives at https

Re: [LincolnTalk] Possible to vote early today?

2023-12-02 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
; Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 2, 2023, at 8:09 AM, ٍSarah Postlethwait wrote: > >  > > Sarah Cannon Holden, > > Just to clarify with those unfamiliar with the town meeting process. Can > people show up anytime today and check in? Or is there a designated time > per

Re: [LincolnTalk] Possible to vote early today?

2023-12-02 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
Sarah Cannon Holden, Just to clarify with those unfamiliar with the town meeting process. Can people show up anytime today and check in? Or is there a designated time period to check in to be given a ballot? Thank you Sarah Postlethwait On Sat, Dec 2, 2023 at 7:40 AM Sarah Cannon Holden

Re: [LincolnTalk] Possible to vote early today?

2023-12-02 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
if town meeting were more inclusive in the future, however that is not how it is set up now. Sarah Postlethwait Lewis St On Sat, Dec 2, 2023 at 7:06 AM Pat Gray wrote: > Can someone confirm if a resident can register this morning and at the > same time get a ballot and vote? I hope so, b

Re: [LincolnTalk] Voting on incomplete options

2023-12-01 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
for the development at the mall, so the site plans do exist already. Sarah Postlethwait Lewis St On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 9:06 PM Sara Lupkas wrote: > There are no basic site plans for the mall because there is no > redevelopment plan for the mall right now. The HCA options that we will be &g

Re: [LincolnTalk] Voting on incomplete options

2023-12-01 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
with the model, It’s unfortunate that the HCAWG members refused to sit down with us weeks ago when the issue was detected. So if you call that disruptive, so be it. Sarah Postlethwait Lewis Street Anyone interested in learning more about Option E and

Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

2023-12-01 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
There are already 4 story buildings being proposed at the mall to be able to fit the 100 units Civico is insisting on… the only way the mall could add a community center is if another floor was added, making it 5 stories. At what point do we say that’s enough? Sarah Postlethwait Lewis Street

Re: [LincolnTalk] Don’t box out yourself, Lincoln.

2023-12-01 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
it set in stone, rather than just crossing our fingers and hoping they have good intentions? The only way to truly ensure affordable housing will be built is to separate the “village center” into a separate rezoning warrant at March Town meeting. The only way to do that is to vote for Option E. Sarah

Re: [LincolnTalk] Fwd: Lincoln HCA Org

2023-11-25 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
an overview of Option E in the first set of links: https://www.lincolntown.org/1327/Housing-Choice-Act-Working-Group And here is a link to the LRHA’s website if you would like a more in depth explanation: https://sites.google.com/view/lincoln-hca-info/home Sarah Postlethwait Lewis St On Sat, Nov 25

Re: [LincolnTalk] Mass. Investment in Communities that Build Around Commuter Rail Stations

2023-11-22 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
, as there are on LincolnTalk. This is why I think it’s important to also include the board(s) or committee(s) that you represent when sharing your opinions on town matters (especially those topics that are in your committee’s purview). Sarah Postlethwait Lewis Street On Wed, Nov 22, 2023 at 9:31 PM Rich Rosenbaum

Re: [LincolnTalk] Mass. Investment in Communities that Build Around Commuter Rail Stations

2023-11-22 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
in compliance? This rush towards December 2024 is unnecessary. Especially when 4 story 48’ buildings with no lot limits (besides 25’ setbacks) at the mall are being discussed in planning board meetings… Sarah Postlethwait On Wed, Nov 22, 2023 at 5:47 PM Rich Rosenbaum wrote: > > *It’s a

Re: [LincolnTalk] Radical change in Lincoln

2023-11-20 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
to vote for other > extremely important town changes - ones that will impact our everyday > living here and our taxes? > > Respectfully, > Margo Fisher-Martin > > > On Mon, Nov 20, 2023 at 5:22 PM ٍSarah Postlethwait > wrote: > >> A town wide secret ballot would

Re: [LincolnTalk] Radical change in Lincoln

2023-11-20 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
impacted position. LincolnHCA.org Sarah Postlethwait On Mon, Nov 20, 2023 at 4:17 PM Tom Kennedy wrote: > Part of the discussion at last weeks planning board meeting is noteworthy, > but has not been mentioned here. > There was substantial discussion, maybe even consensus,

Re: [LincolnTalk] Let’s use the HCA to create affordable housing in Lincoln

2023-11-17 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
The HCA was absolutely not written with affordable housing in mind. It has ZERO requirements for affordable housing written into it and it caps the amount of affordable housing that most towns can require at 10%. You also have to keep in mind that “affordable income units” are capped at 80% of

Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.

2023-11-12 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
, or does the lot coverage only apply to buildings? Thank you! Sarah Postlethwait On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 2:35 PM Margaret Olson wrote: > The proposed zoning for the mall has a mandatory retail component. > > On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 2:13 PM Sara Mattes wrote: > >> So, are we no

Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.

2023-11-12 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
. If the point of having all of this housing around the mall is to encourage people to walk to the amenities and not use a car, why are we reducing the already very limited amount of retail businesses? Sarah Postlethwait On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 2:35 PM Margaret Olson wrote: > The proposed zon

Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice Act and Exclusionary Zoning Report-the HAC will make us even more exclusive.

2023-11-12 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
Are you saying that the survey and report are not accurate? None of the days listed in the survey are a public holiday. April 12, 13, 16, 17, 24, 27, and 29, and May 8, 2013 The only public holiday around that time is Patriots day, April 15, which was not a day listed. On Sun, Nov 12, 2023

Re: [LincolnTalk] Recommended reading for those grappling with the HCA

2023-11-10 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
Absolutely agree that sharing plans would be a positive. I was very alarmed by the Chair of the RLF saying in Wednesday evening’s meeting that commercial space will be *reduced* in the new development to help “derisk” the property, as residential units are less risky than commercial. I thought

Re: [LincolnTalk] Many more than 640 units may be developed. An explanation

2023-11-07 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
Ben, this is a really great explanation of the major flaw of the state compliance model, and why the modeled units are not the same as maximum possible units. Thanks for taking the time to make this! Sarah On Tue, Nov 7, 2023 at 9:26 AM Benjamin Shiller wrote: > I spent substantial efforts to

Re: [LincolnTalk] HCAWG Open Meeting Violation and Misconduct

2023-11-02 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
t; I appreciate your engagement with the process, and hope to see you on the > 8th. > > Jennifer > > On Nov 2, 2023, at 8:06 PM, ٍSarah Postlethwait wrote: > > To all Lincoln residents, > > I want to to bring to your attention that as I send this email someone is > co

Re: [LincolnTalk] the Rural Land Foundation and the Housing Choice Act

2023-11-02 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
so it should be done in the least impactful way to comply with the HCA, and if the town or a developer wants to peruse further rezoning it should be done through the traditional town meeting process. Sarah Postlethwait On Thu, Nov 2, 2023 at 1:50 PM Pastor Allen wrote: > One must remem

Re: [LincolnTalk] Missing stuffy - last seen at DeCordova

2023-11-02 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
That’s the wholesome ending we needed… now who is going to write a children’s book about Lamby’s adventure? Thanks for the update! Sarah On Thu, Nov 2, 2023 at 9:12 AM Mary Balogh wrote: > Good morning! > > I wanted to let everyone know that the lost lamb stuffie was FOUND > recently by a

Re: [LincolnTalk] Rank choice voting at TM?

2023-10-30 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
in September, the “none of these options” or “I don’t support” should be a completely separate question. Sarah Postlethwait On Mon, Oct 30, 2023 at 1:30 PM Edward Young via Lincoln < lincoln@lincolntalk.org> wrote: > This suggestion from Barbara Peskin raises an important issue t

Re: [LincolnTalk] tweedlededum and tweedlededee

2023-10-29 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
Don, The law only requires the REZONING to not be restricted by age or affordability. What is built on it CAN be restricted by age or a higher affordability and comply with the “letter of the law”. This was stated by a board member during one of the meetings. In fact- Lincoln woods is included

Re: [LincolnTalk] tweedlededum and tweedlededee

2023-10-28 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
Carol, The state is only looking at the parcels of land and what could potentially be built on them if they were empty. It doesn’t require any units to be built, and doesn’t take into account any units that are currently there. It just requires rezoning to a higher density allowed “by right”. So

Re: [LincolnTalk] Inaccuracies in rezoning proposals submitted to the State

2023-10-28 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
as well as storm water, wetlands, setbacks, story, and > height restrictions. > > On Fri, Oct 27, 2023 at 11:59 PM ٍSarah Postlethwait > wrote: > >> Peter- >> 100% agree with all of your points, and I support your nomination of >> David to the HCAWG. >>

Re: [LincolnTalk] Inaccuracies in rezoning proposals submitted to the State

2023-10-28 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
> >> Also, the mall/village center actually has 42’ height restrictions >> instead of 36’ in other subdistricts. >> >> Sarah Postlethwait >> >> On Fri, Oct 27, 2023 at 3:58 PM Peter Buchthal >> wrote: >> >>> I believe I speak for many residents th

Re: [LincolnTalk] Inaccuracies in rezoning proposals submitted to the State

2023-10-27 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
has 42’ height restrictions instead of 36’ in other subdistricts. Sarah Postlethwait On Fri, Oct 27, 2023 at 3:58 PM Peter Buchthal wrote: > I believe I speak for many residents that we are all concerned with not > just the problems of our state submission, but with the process, and >

Re: [LincolnTalk] Inaccuracies in rezoning proposals submitted to the State

2023-10-27 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
they get any answers. This rezoning will shape our town dramatically for decades to come- we have a right to have our concerns heard and answered in an open forum. Sarah Postlethwait On Fri, Oct 27, 2023 at 3:05 PM RAandBOB wrote: > I attended the last forum, which had 45 minutes for o

Re: [LincolnTalk] Inaccuracies in rezoning proposals submitted to the State

2023-10-26 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
to comply with the HCA have been proposed. Stop rushing to get a RLF centric rezoning passed and get a better Working group in place. *This rezoning is going to shape the future decades of Lincoln- let’s do it thoughtfully and purposefully. * Sarah Postlethwait On Thu, Oct 26, 2023 at 10:37 AM

Re: [LincolnTalk] Wildlife Will Be Indebted to You

2023-10-26 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
supporting these options with a yes vote at the March Town meeting or voting no. I fear if the “no” is included in the options, as it was on the last ballot, it will split the vote of anyone who doesn’t love any of the current options or who don’t support the HCA rezoning at all. Sarah Postlethwait

Re: [LincolnTalk] HCA: Zoom link for Planning Board meeting on Tuesday October 24th

2023-10-19 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
Im aware that there are 6 total meetings posted since December 2022, and 5 are missing meeting minutes that must be posted within 30 days of the meeting per the open meeting law in MA. Since their last posted working meeting was almost 2 months ago on August 22- I’m also finding it hard to

Re: [LincolnTalk] HCA: Zoom link for Planning Board meeting on Tuesday October 24th

2023-10-19 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
Margaret can you please confirm if the HCAWG is meeting on their own or not. I tried to request it privately and have emailed both Paula and Jennifer Curtain and not received a response. It’s very odd that no meeting in between the last presentation and the upcoming presentation has happened.

Re: [LincolnTalk] Excellent story on the housing crisis, affordable housing & zoning

2023-10-19 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
Nicole- you can’t age restrict the rezoned area. Doing so is against the HCA. On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 3:22 PM Nicole Kaplan wrote: > I was wondering the same thing. Or maybe make all of the units 55+? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Oct 19, 2023, at 11:48 AM, Michael Dembowski > wrote: > > 

Re: [LincolnTalk] HCA: Zoom link for Planning Board meeting on Tuesday October 24th

2023-10-19 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
When does the HCAWG meet? There isn’t an agenda posted on the town minutes/agenda page. Thanks! On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 11:17 AM Margaret Olson wrote: > I expect that this will be a report to the PB. There may be materials in > advance but my expectation is that we will all be hearing it for

Re: [LincolnTalk] Missing stuffy - last seen at DeCordova

2023-10-17 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
Maybe try reaching out to the preschool there and see if it ended up in their lost and found. Good luck!! On Tue, Oct 17, 2023 at 6:53 AM Holly Hazelton wrote: > Hello - Consider this a desperatee mom post: I'm searching for a Missing > lovey Please message me with any details

Re: [LincolnTalk] Yet another HCA email

2023-10-14 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
bile device - please excuse typos and errors > > On Fri, Oct 13, 2023, 2:26 PM ٍSarah Postlethwait > wrote: > >> Robert >> >> “That is $32 million split three ways. And for this prime in-town >> location, I’m guessing the selling price would be even hig

Re: [LincolnTalk] Yet another HCA email

2023-10-13 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
Robert “That is $32 million split three ways. And for this prime in-town location, I’m guessing the selling price would be even higher.” Just to clarify- the property owners only got 2 million and some change for their property. It honestly was likely undervalued since it was almost 6 acres in

Re: [LincolnTalk] question

2023-10-11 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
an impending lawsuit… Sarah Postlethwait On Wed, Oct 11, 2023 at 11:18 AM Sara Mattes wrote: > Yes, we are only allowed to require UP TO 10%. > The exception would be a prospective developer approving an economic > analysis that proved the 15% usually required by Lincoln be profitable. >

Re: [LincolnTalk] question

2023-10-11 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
units, which is why many of us are opposed to complying at all- and if we do comply we feel it should be done in the most minimal way, and then we should handle rezoning on our terms at a higher mandatory affordability rate. Sarah Postlethwait On Wed, Oct 11, 2023 at 10:40 AM Colleen Katsuki wrote

Re: [LincolnTalk] Thoughts on the Housing Choice Act and the October 10th Multi-Board Meeting

2023-10-11 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
mongering that it’s being presented to residents with to scare us into thinking compliance is mandatory is not ok. High density and low affordability new development is not the Lincoln way. Sarah Postlethwait On Wed, Oct 11, 2023 at 9:55 AM Margaret Olson wrote: > If we require 25% afforda

Re: [LincolnTalk] Thoughts on the Housing Choice Act and the October 10th Multi-Board Meeting

2023-10-11 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
t;>>>> >>>>>>>> Rob >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 10, 2023 at 9:41 AM Susanna Szeto >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> A developer’s

Re: [LincolnTalk] Thoughts on the Housing Choice Act and the October 10th Multi-Board Meeting

2023-10-11 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
Lincoln station… but only if they can make it 25% affordable housing by right. Otherwise we are just creating overpriced inventory that will not benefit the people it’s intended to benefit. Sarah Postlethwait On Wed, Oct 11, 2023 at 7:34 AM John Mendelson wrote: > Thank you, Carl. Wise wo

Re: [LincolnTalk] Yet another HCA email

2023-10-10 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
Scott- that’s the perfect way to state what we are all looking for! On Tue, Oct 10, 2023 at 8:59 PM Scott Clary wrote: > Good eye Sarah. I had missed "sale," and one would certainly have to > assume that means there's at least a letter of intent in place. Should not > we, the townspeople, know

Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center and Last night at Twisted Tree DeCordova

2023-10-10 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
We have a variety of places for unstructured spur of the moment meeting spaces. •The library •Decordova museum and cafe- free admission for Lincoln residents! •Codman farm grocery store •twisted tree •the tack room •Drumlin Farm •3 playgrounds at the school If these places that offer more than

Re: [LincolnTalk] Thoughts on the Housing Choice Act and the October 10th Multi-Board Meeting

2023-10-10 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
area. We have the option to have 80% of the rezoning scattered throughout the rest of the town- why was this not presented as an option? Sarah Postlethwait Lewis Street On Tue, Oct 10, 2023 at 11:21 AM Bob Kupperstein wrote: > I applaud John's thoughts. > > There is a real, endurin

Re: [LincolnTalk] Thoughts on the Housing Choice Act and the October 10th Multi-Board Meeting

2023-10-10 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
. Sarah Postlethwait Lewis Street On Tue, Oct 10, 2023 at 9:55 AM John Mendelson wrote: > Save it from what? Progress? Working to help solve the regional > challenges of housing, traffic, environment? Providing housing > alternatives? > > Or should we just continue to approve 20,0

Re: [LincolnTalk] Thoughts on the Housing Choice Act and the October 10th Multi-Board Meeting

2023-10-07 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
restrictions, and put these affordable housing units at risk (I know everyone says it’s unlikely it will be redeveloped- but why take the risk??). Sarah Postlethwait Lewis Street On Fri, Oct 6, 2023 at 1:30 PM Robert Domnitz wrote: > As a recently-retired member of the Planning Bo

Re: [LincolnTalk] 15 units per acre (Gross)

2023-10-03 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
r district AND the businesses of this district to share? Sarah Postlethwait Lewis Street On Tue, Oct 3, 2023 at 5:57 PM Margaret Olson wrote: > That article uses a somewhat different definition of gross density and > refers to the state’s highly complicated set of calculations. Any zoning >

Re: [LincolnTalk] 15 units per acre (Gross)

2023-10-03 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
The highest density provided in that presentation is 18.5 units per acre. Do you have an example of what 25 units per acre mixed use zoning, as proposed for Lincoln center, would look like? Thanks Sarah Postlethwait Lewis Street On Tue, Oct 3, 2023 at 3:38 PM Margaret Olson wrote: >

Re: [LincolnTalk] Updated Housing Choice Act Zoning FAQs

2023-09-18 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
is not a reliable source of transportation. Currently our units average 2 cars per unit. So assuming anything less than 1.5 vehicles per unit is naive, IMO. Sarah Postlethwait On Fri, Sep 8, 2023 at 9:14 AM Jennifer Glass via Lincoln < lincoln@lincolntalk.org> wrote: > Good morning! > A new

Re: [LincolnTalk] Housing Choice act and misunderstandings...and Flint's record

2022-03-28 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
Unfortunately this is not accurate. The HCA makes it so changes to *zoning* only require a simple majority- it no longer needs a supermajority. This is the law, it is in place. A supermajority is not needed any longer for zoning changes. To be in compliance with the HCA, a town must allow, by

Re: [LincolnTalk] concern for the diversity of our town, but economic and racially

2021-07-27 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait
The reports on the Sudbury development do say it will help the town reach its 10% affordable housing, but it doesn’t actually specify how many units that includes. It’s worth noting that the actual affordableness of affordable housing is subjective. For instance when Oriele landing listed it’s