Re: [sage-devel] ping - please cast you vote: VOTE: Follow NEP 29: Recommended Python version

On Wednesday, 31 May 2023 at 03:00:53 UTC+8 Nils Bruin wrote: On Tuesday, 30 May 2023 at 11:13:27 UTC-7 tobia...@gmx.de wrote: that we normally drop support for older versions right after this support window (i.e. also adapt the drop schedule

[sage-devel] Re: Segmentation Fault

I opened issue #35696 for this, and put a diagnosis there. On Monday, May 29, 2023 at 10:00:05 PM UTC-6 dmo...@deductivepress.ca wrote: > I'm surprised that this hasn't been reported previously, because we can > get a crash even without atan or

Re: [sage-devel] Re: ping - please cast you vote: VOTE: Follow NEP 29: Recommended Python version

Hi, you managed to make me laugh… Thanks. Anyway, we need you. Both of you. Best, Guillermo On Wed, 31 May 2023 at 02:17, Matthias Koeppe wrote: > Hi Guillermo, > > On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 12:59:54 PM UTC-7 G. M.-S. wrote: > > Could you (both of you) take a short vacation from

Re: [sage-devel] Re: ping - please cast you vote: VOTE: Follow NEP 29: Recommended Python version

Hi Guillermo, On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 12:59:54 PM UTC-7 G. M.-S. wrote: Could you (both of you) take a short vacation from SageMath, please? Thanks, that's an interesting suggestion. But I think Dima would prefer to go on vacation with his family, not with me. ;) Matthias -- You

Re: [sage-devel] Re: ping - please cast you vote: VOTE: Follow NEP 29: Recommended Python version

Dima and Matthias, I completely agree with Nils. Could you (both of you) take a short vacation from SageMath, please? More globally, I propose to stop this discussion completely for a few days. Thanks in advance. Guillermo On Tue, 30 May 2023 at 21:14, Nils Bruin wrote: > @dima, @matthias

Re: [sage-devel] ping - please cast you vote: VOTE: Follow NEP 29: Recommended Python version

On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 8:19 PM Matthias Koeppe wrote: > > On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 12:00:53 PM UTC-7 Nils Bruin wrote: > > On Tuesday, 30 May 2023 at 11:13:27 UTC-7 tobia...@gmx.de wrote: > > that we normally drop support for older versions right after this support > window (i.e. also adapt

Re: [sage-devel] ping - please cast you vote: VOTE: Follow NEP 29: Recommended Python version

On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 8:01 PM Nils Bruin wrote: > > On Tuesday, 30 May 2023 at 11:13:27 UTC-7 tobia...@gmx.de wrote: > > that we normally drop support for older versions right after this support > window (i.e. also adapt the drop schedule >

Re: [sage-devel] ping - please cast you vote: VOTE: Follow NEP 29: Recommended Python version

On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 12:00:53 PM UTC-7 Nils Bruin wrote: On Tuesday, 30 May 2023 at 11:13:27 UTC-7 tobia...@gmx.de wrote: that we normally drop support for older versions right after this support window (i.e. also adapt the drop schedule

Re: [sage-devel] Re: ping - please cast you vote: VOTE: Follow NEP 29: Recommended Python version

@dima, @matthias : this public forum is not an appropriate venue to discuss personal disagreements. From what you both write I get the impression you actually have a lot of common ground and only a few differences in opinion, but that personalities and discussion styles exaggerate the

Re: [sage-devel] Re: ping - please cast you vote: VOTE: Follow NEP 29: Recommended Python version

On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 8:04 PM Matthias Koeppe wrote: > > On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 11:56:15 AM UTC-7 Dima Pasechnik wrote: > > On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 5:53 PM Matthias Koeppe > wrote: > > You are *assuming* that you are right, and then accuse me of blocking > > progress, and of wasting your

Re: [sage-devel] ping - please cast you vote: VOTE: Follow NEP 29: Recommended Python version

"proponents of a radical step", Removing support for the oldest Python3 version Sage supports IS NOT A RADICAL STEP. Stop this bs please. On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 8:06 PM Dima Pasechnik wrote: > > On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 8:01 PM Matthias Koeppe > wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at

Re: [sage-devel] ping - please cast you vote: VOTE: Follow NEP 29: Recommended Python version

On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 8:01 PM Matthias Koeppe wrote: > > On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 10:40:36 AM UTC-7 Nils Bruin wrote: > > (I doubt anyone is advocating to actively break support for python versions > outside of the NEP 29 support window. Breakage will happen as-needed) > > > Actually this

Re: [sage-devel] Re: ping - please cast you vote: VOTE: Follow NEP 29: Recommended Python version

On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 11:56:15 AM UTC-7 Dima Pasechnik wrote: On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 5:53 PM Matthias Koeppe wrote: > You are *assuming* that you are right, and then accuse me of blocking progress, and of wasting your time with the discussion; and then you demand that I give in, based

Re: [sage-devel] ping - please cast you vote: VOTE: Follow NEP 29: Recommended Python version

On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 10:40:36 AM UTC-7 Nils Bruin wrote: (I doubt anyone is advocating to actively break support for python versions outside of the NEP 29 support window. Breakage will happen as-needed) Actually this is exactly what Tobias's PR

Re: [sage-devel] ping - please cast you vote: VOTE: Follow NEP 29: Recommended Python version

On Tuesday, 30 May 2023 at 11:13:27 UTC-7 tobia...@gmx.de wrote: that we normally drop support for older versions right after this support window (i.e. also adapt the drop schedule https://numpy.org/neps/nep-0029-deprecation_policy.html#drop-schedule). I've formulated an improved formulation

Re: [sage-devel] Re: ping - please cast you vote: VOTE: Follow NEP 29: Recommended Python version

On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 5:53 PM Matthias Koeppe wrote: > > On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 9:14:14 AM UTC-7 Dima Pasechnik wrote: > > already the discussion on these minor points has taken so much time that we > could have instead done 10 or 20 PRs > > > This line of reasoning has been used several

Re: [sage-devel] ping - please cast you vote: VOTE: Follow NEP 29: Recommended Python version

On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 1:20:51 AM UTC+8 Matthias Koeppe wrote: But the proposed vote (Tobias's PR https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/35403/files) proposes to write a strict, prescriptive interpretation into the project''s policies. The policy should serve as a guideline for "normal

Re: [sage-devel] ping - please cast you vote: VOTE: Follow NEP 29: Recommended Python version

Sorry for the confusion. I forgot that there are different readings of NEP29 and that this lead to misunderstandings before. The proposed policy is that all python versions supported by NEP29 are also supported by sage (this is the lower bound) and that we normally drop support for older

Re: [sage-devel] ping - please cast you vote: VOTE: Follow NEP 29: Recommended Python version

On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 12:01:04 AM UTC+8 Nils Bruin wrote: I'd say the process for NEP 29 has now become so muddled that it's better to start clean: Set a week (is that enough? do we need more?) for discussion, then open a thread collecting votes *ONLY* (no comments) for another week,

Re: [sage-devel] ping - please cast you vote: VOTE: Follow NEP 29: Recommended Python version

Can we please clearly formulate what the motion is that is being discussed and voted on? As Volker pointed out, NEP 29 guarantees what versions are supported, i.e., it gives a lower bound to what we support. If we are adopting that, it would seem that we are trying to solve a problem that sage

Re: [sage-devel] ping - please cast you vote: VOTE: Follow NEP 29: Recommended Python version

On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 2:26:02 AM UTC-7 David Joyner wrote: I vote for following NEP 29, or, at the very least, staying as coordinated with numpy as possible. Note that our current practice does already coordinate with numpy/scipy: The developers who engage in the maintenance of the

Re: [sage-devel] Re: ping - please cast you vote: VOTE: Follow NEP 29: Recommended Python version

On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 9:53 AM Matthias Koeppe wrote: > On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 9:14:14 AM UTC-7 Dima Pasechnik wrote: > > already the discussion on these minor points has taken so much time that > we could have instead done 10 or 20 PRs > > > This line of reasoning has been used several

Re: [sage-devel] Re: ping - please cast you vote: VOTE: Follow NEP 29: Recommended Python version

On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 9:14:14 AM UTC-7 Dima Pasechnik wrote: already the discussion on these minor points has taken so much time that we could have instead done 10 or 20 PRs This line of reasoning has been used several times already, including by you. I have to point out that it is an

Re: [sage-devel] Re: ping - please cast you vote: VOTE: Follow NEP 29: Recommended Python version

already the discussion on these minor points has taken so much time that we could have instead done 10 or 20 PRs, but apparently for you, Matthias, the priorities are elsewhere - defending your point of view takes precedence over everything else. I find it hugely damaging to the project. On

[sage-devel] Re: ping - please cast you vote: VOTE: Follow NEP 29: Recommended Python version

On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 2:15:57 AM UTC-7 Dima Pasechnik wrote: Once again, I think we should close ranks with the rest of scientific python people and start following NEP 29. We have much more urgent stuff to work on - buggy Pynac, buggy Singular interface, etc, than the Python 3.8

Re: [sage-devel] ping - please cast you vote: VOTE: Follow NEP 29: Recommended Python version

On Tuesday, 30 May 2023 at 07:17:17 UTC-7 Dima Pasechnik wrote: While in my "ballot" I added a couple of sentenses, they were meant to rectify the original post requesting the vote. I think it's clear that the vote was called prematurely -- there was clearly a need for people on the forum

Re: [sage-devel] ping - please cast you vote: VOTE: Follow NEP 29: Recommended Python version

On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 2:39 PM William Stein wrote: > > On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 2:15 AM Dima Pasechnik wrote: > > > > So far we only had very few votes cast. > > You might want to consider structuring the voting process more. Well, have you notiiced that while casting his vote, Matthias wrote

Re: [sage-devel] ping - please cast you vote: VOTE: Follow NEP 29: Recommended Python version

On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 2:15 AM Dima Pasechnik wrote: > > So far we only had very few votes cast. You might want to consider structuring the voting process more. For example, David Roe did a great job with this for the "move sage to github" vote, including a clear deadline, a thread where no

Re: [sage-devel] ping - please cast you vote: VOTE: Follow NEP 29: Recommended Python version

On Tue, 2023-05-30 at 10:15 +0100, Dima Pasechnik wrote: > So far we only had very few votes cast. > We probably should have started with the discussion and then voted afterwards. FWIW I'm still not sure. I basically agree with Matthias's points. If (for example) supporting python-3.8 costs us

Re: [sage-devel] VOTE: Follow NEP 29: Recommended Python version

My vote is empty, for the following reasons: —I think the question asked is not clear enough, as per reactions. —My "dream" is having an easy to install recent version of SageMath for everybody wishing to do mathematics with it. Currently this is only the case for macOS and perhaps some flavours

Re: [sage-devel] ping - please cast you vote: VOTE: Follow NEP 29: Recommended Python version

On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 5:15 AM Dima Pasechnik wrote: > So far we only had very few votes cast. > > I vote for following NEP 29, or, at the very least, staying as coordinated with numpy as possible. > Once again, I think we should close ranks with the rest of scientific > python people and

[sage-devel] ping - please cast you vote: VOTE: Follow NEP 29: Recommended Python version

So far we only had very few votes cast. Once again, I think we should close ranks with the rest of scientific python people and start following NEP 29. We have much more urgent stuff to work on - buggy Pynac, buggy Singular interface, etc, than the Python 3.8 retrocomputing. Dima -- You