Mario O. Pipkin
Director, Microsoft e*BIS
Electronic Business Integration Services
Intranet: <http://itgweb/ebis>
Phone: (425) 936-0200
-----Original Message-----
From: Welsh, David [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 1:37 PM
To: 'Anthony Beecher'; '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: The XML/EDI has no Clothes!
Hey Anthony,good point. You're absolutely right and if the Redmond crew misses that target (say the DOJ breaks them up as the Judge wants them to) I guess IBM can build a mammoth mainframe for everyone in the universe to use. Maybe we can all use the same program on a mainframe !! Now you've me going, let's just do away with users and ...Hey by the way, I haven't heard anything on Biztalk these last few months, after they announced that expensive pricing scheme and it's move to manufacturing. Is it even alive or are we in for another "track betting exercise" when we were all betting when Windows 98 & Windows 2000 would hit the street.Dave-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Beecher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 1:19 PM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: The XML/EDI has no Clothes!
Steve,
The "real" problem is caused by differing backend systems and backend capability. From there stem the different messages, mapping work and expense. XML will do nothing to solve this.
This holy grail of plug and play integration will be achieved in the Microsoft centric world that is coming. Microsoft's next targets, via .net initiative, will be SAP, etc - (recall that they recently bought great plains.) I estimate they will cover Enterprise, SME and mom and pop.
They will copy the concept of mysap.com where ERPs are hosted and developed as a service, then participants will all use Biztalk and there will be no incompatability.
This is my hunch.
Anthony
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rachel Foerster [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 11:10 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: The XML/EDI has no Clothes!
>
>
> Steve,
>
> You are totally on the mark. It is, was, and will be the challenge of
> semantic alignment of the business information being
> exchanged and then the
> mapping of that to the backend systems, that is the heartburn
> of EDI, edi,
> XML, or any other flavor of file structure/format. This still
> requires human
> intelligence, evaluation and judgment. It's this challenge
> that the hypsters
> just refuse to recognize. This is also where all of the major
> expense comes
> in.
>
> Also, has anyone taken a look recently at the "family" of XML
> standards now
> available? It's not just XML, but DTD, Schema, DOM, DOM-2,
> DOM-3, XSL, XSLT,
> RDT, Namespace, to name just a few. Just think about trying
> to understand
> the whole array, figure out which ones are needed, architect
> a system and
> then assemble/acquire/implement the tools. What a nightmare!
> And they told
> us EDI was too complex, costly and time consuming. We haven't
> seen anything
> yet! Who wants to bet on the SME's going down this path?
>
> But, so what....it's the new kid on the
> block....perhaps/hopefully these new
> kids will enable new ways of business information/message
> exchanges. They're
> just the natural progression of things. Who remembers board-wiring to
> program computers? And then writing in Assembler, PL/1, Algol, Cobol,
> Fortan, Pascal, C, C++, Java, and perhaps, soon C#!!!!
>
> Ain't this fun!
>
> Rachel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve L. Bollinger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 9:00 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: The XML/EDI has no Clothes!
>
>
> At 06:26 PM 1/31/2001 -0800, Ken North wrote:
> >Steve,
> >Keep the discussion going.... Don't know if you saw this
> reply in another
> >thread.
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Ken! I did see it. It is well written. I think ebXML
> and UDDI are
> good standards and are things that everyone around the world
> will be able
> to use unchanged. i.e. there will not be the variance in
> standards that I
> was talking about. Just like in the X12 world, everyone uses
> the ISA and
> GS enveloping headers exactly the same around the world.
> ebXML likewise
> defines enveloping structures that can be used by all around the world
> without change. ebXML and UDDL go further of course and I
> think they will
> be good standards.
>
> All of my comments about variances in established standards
> are directed
> exclusively to the payload. AKA the Business Object,
> Business Document,
> message and in X12 parlance, the "Transaction Set".
> Competition will always
> demand flavors of these established standards. Thus the
> concept of a world
> wide PO is a great idea but is not real world practical and
> won't happen.
>
> The XML/edi concept of XML data and rules combined that somehow auto
> convert to the Partners backend without a programmer mapping and
> maintaining this, I think is another great idea that will never
> happen. Multiple flavors of a PO in XML because they each
> contain their
> own data with rules will self map somehow?
>
> This is the point of expense in X12 that will carry over to
> XML/edi. I
> have yet to see anything that indicates otherwise.
>
>
> At 06:26 PM 1/31/2001 -0800, Ken North wrote:
> >Steve,
> >
> >Keep the discussion going.... Don't know if you saw this
> reply in another
> >thread.
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >Consider this a reply for both your message and Steve Bollinger's.
> >
> >It's premature to judge the effect XML/EDI 'had' on
> eBusiness. That's like
> >suggesting in 1906 (three years after Kitty Hawk) that
> aviation is a flop.
> >
> >Why? The XML spec was released in 1998. There were some
> lessons learned in
> >the 1999 European XML/EDI Pilot Project, but much of the
> activity during
> >2000 has been focused on creating standards for an eBusiness
> infrastructure.
> >XML Schema is a few months old. Two major eBusiness
> initiatives (ebXML and
> >UDDI) have drawn participation from key players, but they are still
> infants.
> >
> >If you're interested in emerging eBusiness technologies, you
> might want to
> >attend ebXML Day or UDDI Day at XML DevCon 2001 in New York
> City. On April
> >9, ebXML instructors will be rolling out the specifications for ebXML
> >Registry/Repository, Message Service, and Collaborative
> (Trading) Partner
> >Agreements.
> >
> >On UDDI Day (April 10), a team of IBM and Microsoft
> instructors will teach
> a
> >UDDI programming workshop (the APIs, the payload, how to use
> the IBM and
> >Microsoft toolkits, and so on).
> >
> >Registration for either event (UDDI Day, ebXML Day) is
> included with the
> >Special Events pass. The Special Events pass is free if you
> pre-register.
> >
> >There are other eBusiness, ebXML, UDDI classes and workshop
> in the main
> >conference program, so you might want to check that out
> before deciding to
> >attend only the free events. We'll have people such as Peter
> Chen teaching
> >conceptual modeling, Jonathan Robie doing a tutorial on XML
> Query, Steve
> >Melton unveiling SQLX, three of the XML/EDI founders doing
> an eBusiness
> >Workshop, and a workshop on business transformations with XSLT:
> >http://www.xmldevcon2001.com/NY/html/conference.php
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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>
>
>
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