Robi,
I certainly don't want to kick sand in your eyes, but have you really
read/looked at the W3C Schema Candidate specification? It's incredibly
complex. So is the DTD specification. Becoming truly proficient in these two
specifications, and then applying them and integrating all of this into an
automated business process is not that simple. I truly question that these
"new hires" are truly proficient in ALL of what you listed in just one week!
I bet they walk on water too!
Rachel
-----Original Message-----
From: robi sen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 2:02 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: The XML/EDI has no Clothes!
Racheal,
Just thought I would comment on XML learning curve since you mention XML
"standards". Recently the company I work for trained some of our new hires
in
XML technologies which included XSLT, DOM, DTD's, XML, and SCHEMEs as well
as
how to work with apache and IBM tools in JAVA. Almost all of the new hires
where proficient and comfortable with the technologies with in a week! XML
and
XML related technologies are incredible simple and easy to learn in fact the
most common utterance from people that I hear including clients is that it
can
not be that easy.
As for thinking about "the whole array, figure out which ones are needed,
architect a system and
then assemble/acquire/implement the tool". I am very happy to since its so
simple and straight forward. What is also a refreashing experiance for me
is
that clients with a little education are even able to become part of the
development process since they seem to pick it up very quickly as well.
Robi
Rachel Foerster wrote:
> Steve,
>
> You are totally on the mark. It is, was, and will be the challenge of
> semantic alignment of the business information being exchanged and then
the
> mapping of that to the backend systems, that is the heartburn of EDI, edi,
> XML, or any other flavor of file structure/format. This still requires
human
> intelligence, evaluation and judgment. It's this challenge that the
hypsters
> just refuse to recognize. This is also where all of the major expense
comes
> in.
>
> Also, has anyone taken a look recently at the "family" of XML standards
now
> available? It's not just XML, but DTD, Schema, DOM, DOM-2, DOM-3, XSL,
XSLT,
> RDT, Namespace, to name just a few. Just think about trying to understand
> the whole array, figure out which ones are needed, architect a system and
> then assemble/acquire/implement the tools. What a nightmare! And they told
> us EDI was too complex, costly and time consuming. We haven't seen
anything
> yet! Who wants to bet on the SME's going down this path?
>
> But, so what....it's the new kid on the block....perhaps/hopefully these
new
> kids will enable new ways of business information/message exchanges.
They're
> just the natural progression of things. Who remembers board-wiring to
> program computers? And then writing in Assembler, PL/1, Algol, Cobol,
> Fortan, Pascal, C, C++, Java, and perhaps, soon C#!!!!
>
> Ain't this fun!
>
> Rachel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve L. Bollinger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 9:00 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: The XML/EDI has no Clothes!
>
> At 06:26 PM 1/31/2001 -0800, Ken North wrote:
> >Steve,
> >Keep the discussion going.... Don't know if you saw this reply in another
> >thread.
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Ken! I did see it. It is well written. I think ebXML and UDDI are
> good standards and are things that everyone around the world will be able
> to use unchanged. i.e. there will not be the variance in standards that I
> was talking about. Just like in the X12 world, everyone uses the ISA and
> GS enveloping headers exactly the same around the world. ebXML likewise
> defines enveloping structures that can be used by all around the world
> without change. ebXML and UDDL go further of course and I think they will
> be good standards.
>
> All of my comments about variances in established standards are directed
> exclusively to the payload. AKA the Business Object, Business Document,
> message and in X12 parlance, the "Transaction Set". Competition will
always
> demand flavors of these established standards. Thus the concept of a
world
> wide PO is a great idea but is not real world practical and won't happen.
>
> The XML/edi concept of XML data and rules combined that somehow auto
> convert to the Partners backend without a programmer mapping and
> maintaining this, I think is another great idea that will never
> happen. Multiple flavors of a PO in XML because they each contain their
> own data with rules will self map somehow?
>
> This is the point of expense in X12 that will carry over to XML/edi. I
> have yet to see anything that indicates otherwise.
>
> At 06:26 PM 1/31/2001 -0800, Ken North wrote:
> >Steve,
> >
> >Keep the discussion going.... Don't know if you saw this reply in another
> >thread.
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >Consider this a reply for both your message and Steve Bollinger's.
> >
> >It's premature to judge the effect XML/EDI 'had' on eBusiness. That's
like
> >suggesting in 1906 (three years after Kitty Hawk) that aviation is a
flop.
> >
> >Why? The XML spec was released in 1998. There were some lessons learned
in
> >the 1999 European XML/EDI Pilot Project, but much of the activity during
> >2000 has been focused on creating standards for an eBusiness
> infrastructure.
> >XML Schema is a few months old. Two major eBusiness initiatives (ebXML
and
> >UDDI) have drawn participation from key players, but they are still
> infants.
> >
> >If you're interested in emerging eBusiness technologies, you might want
to
> >attend ebXML Day or UDDI Day at XML DevCon 2001 in New York City. On
April
> >9, ebXML instructors will be rolling out the specifications for ebXML
> >Registry/Repository, Message Service, and Collaborative (Trading) Partner
> >Agreements.
> >
> >On UDDI Day (April 10), a team of IBM and Microsoft instructors will
teach
> a
> >UDDI programming workshop (the APIs, the payload, how to use the IBM and
> >Microsoft toolkits, and so on).
> >
> >Registration for either event (UDDI Day, ebXML Day) is included with the
> >Special Events pass. The Special Events pass is free if you pre-register.
> >
> >There are other eBusiness, ebXML, UDDI classes and workshop in the main
> >conference program, so you might want to check that out before deciding
to
> >attend only the free events. We'll have people such as Peter Chen
teaching
> >conceptual modeling, Jonathan Robie doing a tutorial on XML Query, Steve
> >Melton unveiling SQLX, three of the XML/EDI founders doing an eBusiness
> >Workshop, and a workshop on business transformations with XSLT:
> >http://www.xmldevcon2001.com/NY/html/conference.php
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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