[EMAIL PROTECTED] please...take this thread private.
> -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 5:42 PM > To: Kent williams > Cc: Martin; 313 mailing list > Subject: Re: (313) Kraftwerk last night > > i think at this point- most of the german i meet, when the > topic turns to war and such things, are actually more opposed > to it than most, having seen the horror of it first hand (the > fact that they always lose probably doesn't help much > either). There are still buildings in East Berlin where you > can see the bullet holes. Tha tmakes a pretty good argument > against war I should think. > > However- its also true that Germna children (at least people > my age were taught as children) that because of WWII, that > the German people are bad. > This is unfortunate as it became rather uncomfortable when > some of them found out I was jewish. They were convinced I > must hate them because of something that their grandparents > did, although nothing could be farther from the truth. Its > also scary because its usually in places where the population > doesn't have a lot of respect where facists are able to rally > the depressed nation into a frenzy of nationalism. Remember- > Germans were downtrodden after loosing WWI, which is why the > Nazis were able to take power under the allusion of German > superiority. Kinda an overcompensation if you wanna get > Freudian about it. > > Not that this has anything to do with Kraftwerk mind you. But > having just spent a weekend in Berlin- a place where people > are impossibly kind and trusting (hell- we paid at a > resturant with a hand written IOU), I think anyone who holds > the past against these people is really missing out. And in > fact is probably a cause of the problem more than a solution. > > America is certainly the closest thing to facist we have in > the Westernized world. Left unchecked, might the powers start > executing Arabs enmass? I suspect that some people in power > wouldn't blink twice at 'cleansing' the evil Muslims who wish > to destroy our way of life. > > Scary and sad. > > > On Sun, 21 Mar 2004, Kent williams wrote: > > > On Sun, 21 Mar 2004, Martin wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Simon Price and Kitty Empire) repeating the tired old cliche > > > > > that - to quote Empire by way of example - > 'Kraftwerk's austere > > > > > music has brought them misguided accusations of being > fascists'. > > > > > > > > And neither am I, nor are you ... but Stockhausen has > said that he > > > > dislikes all music with a steady beat because it reminds him of > > > > the martial drumbeats of fascism. > > > > > > Then he must hate most music, as there's nearly alway's > "something" > > > holding time and the beat. > > > > Arguably, Stockhausen's music often sounds like music composed by > > someone who hates music. > > > > > The problem is people seem to tar everyone German with the same > > > brush. > > > > Now here's a off-topic tangent, but here goes: Much has > been made of > > the collective guilt of Germans for the Nazi period, but in > my opinion > > Hitler only exploited and amplified the worst tendencies of > the people > > under his rule. Hitler's rhetoric -- and the rhetoric of > the fascists > > everywhere, sound disturbingly similar to the rhetoric of > the United State's conservatives. > > I've always wondered how big a shove it would take to push > America's > > right wingers (or for that matter, left wingers) into forming El > > Salvador-style death squads. I suspect not very big. > > > > Germans are just people; to the extent that they're > different from any > > other homogenous population, it's the little things that make them > > different, like toilets with a little shelf in the bowl for > your poop > > to sit on. People are just fooling themselves if they > think there's > > anything peculiarly German about what happened between 1933 > and 1945. > > > > And since I immediately brought up Nazis, this thread > should be over > > ;-) > > > > > >
