Probably a dumb question, but the guys that play later time slots, close the night etc...do they get paid more money? -----Original Message----- From: Stoddard, Kamal [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 19 May 2006 3:14 a.m. To: disrupt; Thomas D. Cox, Jr. Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: RE: (313) a question regarding DEMF and the history of Detroit techno
I agree that influences are ubiquitous. The question here is about the weighting of importance. Using your own analogy, even though all the early guys have basically admitted to trying to imitate italo trax when coming up with "the detroit techno sound" I would find it just as odd to see the Rome Italo Fest(hypothetical event, don't pm me asking when it takes place :) headlined by cybotron while the originators of the italo sound pushed to play at noon. Even though they definitely took the italo sound and helped it grow into something more. I really would think it odd. Same thing here. Nobody's arguing for the exclusion of detoit influenced artists who are relevant to the sound we love, but the argument is that first priority should be given to the originators, then the hometown sound pushers, then the out of town sound pushers, and LASTLY the filler sideshow acts (breakcore, trance acts, etc). even though I know some feel that it has absolutely no place at the fest, I'd put money down that it wouldn't be much of an issue if they were all given the early slots and the respect chain was obvious. Now for all I know, paxahaus may have all the respect in the world for the real D (hell, rob hood anyone?) but I'm saying it's not as obvious as it should be in the lineup. A simple case of them not putting the money where their mouth is (in the hands of Detroit techno). I mean correct me if I'm wrong, but does anyone here think that POTD and the rest are really relevant to Detroit? k -----Original Message----- From: disrupt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 10:15 AM To: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) a question regarding DEMF and the history of Detroit techno Yes Tom! Highly interesting discussion, with all its ups and downs, ultimately about the state of Detroit today. Maybe a new line of thought on this: for sure Detroit music influenced many people around the globe, many ripped it off, some took it and went forward (like the Dutch crew, Berlin, etc.), the whole plus and minus of it revealed itself over the last years. BUT: didn't Detroit music got influenced by other music as well over the time? Sucking those influences in, processing and using them in it's unique way? For sure it didn't 100% generate from Zero and from itself only. It's not a closed-in microcosm, completely sealed off from the world. So: shouldn't this fact be reflected in the DEMF lineup somehow? Detroit certainly gave a lot but I think it also 'took', works both channels. What can be discussed, of course, are the porportions of this give/take share and how it ultimately is weighed in the lineup. Anyway, keep it going. Such thoughts have to be processed. Jan On Thu, 18 May 2006 08:22:54 -0400, "Thomas D. Cox, Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote : > On 5/17/06, as if .. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Tom .. for starters I like you passion .. ' > > thanks ;) > > > You are suggesting that the only people who can call their Techno "Detroit Techno" > > are people who are born and raised in Detroit. > > ummm, that is a bit obvious, right? i mean i guess you dont > necessarily have to have lived every second of your life in detroit to > qualify, but certainly a long term connection with the city and its > culture should be a requirement. say techno artist X moves to detroit, > his music is not now "detroit techno", thats for sure. in fact, to me > someone like 4 Hero has more to do with detroit techno than someone > like the Beretta music people. > > > In a commercial sense you are probably following a clean line of thought. On a > > personal level I see you trying to protect the energy and truth of the early Detroit > > Techno. I see you also trying to protect the interests of local Detroit Artists. > > for me its not only about techno though, its about house and electro > and ghetto tech and even soul and hiphop. anything that has a > distinctly detroit flavour that is recognizable! every one of those > genres that has a sound associated with detroit has been ripped off by > and also influenced people outside of detroit. > > > These are all valid things to do. However in order to protect these things you will > > need to essentially crush what is "Detroit Techno" into a can cover it in a series of > > warning labels and putting it on a special shelf for everyone to purchase. > > i dont necessarily think that is true. the good thing about something > as generic as "detroit music" is ever changing, and will grow to > include different genres and different ideas. but it certainly doesnt > need to include every single style of music made in detroit. detroit > is a large city, im sure theres some polka players there. but there's > no detroit polka sound! > > > But unless "Detroit Techno" took the legal steps to protect the labeling of music > > under that title then all you are left with is some assumed level of respect from > > artists outside Detroit that the label belongs only to Detroit artists. > > > > I believe if "Detroit Techno" had done this. If it had protected by legal means the > > labeling of music as "Detroit Techno" we would not be seeing what we are seeing > > today, which is a global interest and support for the music form. > > hmm, i dont agree. look at "baltimore club music". its now hip to be > down with that, and plenty of people outside of baltimore are doing > so. but there arent b-more club tracks made anywhere outside of > baltimore. there are people ripping that sound off, but without the > culture and the place that birthed it, all it is is a cheap knockoff. > > > Tom ' I think you are totally on the correct wave length in terms of trying to gain > > the correct attention for Detroit Music people ... > > > > But I also think you are missing the point. The DEMF regardless of the play list > > is drawing a huge amount of attention from around the globe towards Detroit and > > the modern music form of Techno that is related to Detroit. > > but my argument is that most of this stuff has nothing to do with > detroit. POTD has nothing to do with detroit on any level. photek > might have 10 years ago, but not today. ditto donald glaude and doc > martin and josh wink (well, i guess he has something to do with it in > the manner of ripping off specific tracks!) and otto von shirach and > etcetc. why these people who have NOTHING to do with detroit are > playing at the exclusion of those people who DO have something very > essential to do with detroit is what im peeved about. there's no > connection to be made from listening to those artists to get to the > detroit artists. whats really sad is that if you wanted to have > breakcore represented, you could get the low res people to do > something since theyve been doing their thing in detroit since 1998 or > so. and jungle wise, soundmurderer definitely has something going on > that is much more related to detroit simply because the guy's life has > obviously been influenced by growing up in/around detroit. so drawing > attention to these other people is serving absolutely no one except > those whose name will now be associated with something they had > nothing to do with. and thats wack. > > > No other city in the world can boast to be what Detroit is .. and from where I am > > standing the DEMF is a celebration of what Detroit has started, and the fact that > > the festival is in the heart of the city is testament to what Detroit has committed > > to continue. > > > > While I respect you are upset, and for many good reasons. Until they start holding > > the DEMF in New York or Berlin I think you should work on the positives. > > look, since they announced paxahau was doing the festival this year, > ive given them the benefit of the doubt at every stage. initially i > said "well, i know what theyre known for, but hopefully theyll keep > the big picture in mind when picking the acts to play." then the > initial lineup came out, and it was obvious that they had done no such > thing. they said they would announce more lineup later, so i held out > that they would add much more detroit stuff. then the full lineup was > released, with only a few good additions and lots of other extraneous > nonsense piled on. so i assumed that with so few detroit > representations that theyd give those people whose blood sweat and > tears they owed the existance of the festival to SOME iota of credit > by giving them good timeslots to rock the crowds. of course, i was > wrong yet again. they have had numerous chances to do ANYTHING right, > and aside from booking rob hood and giving him a good timeslot, they > have screwed everything else up! > > > But .. perhaps you think I have no right to comment because I don't live in Detroit. > > nah, i dont think anything of the sort. in case you didnt know, im not > from detroit, nor do i have any connection to it outside of my deeply > held passion for its music and by extension its culture and it. > > > If thats the case then Detroit Techno should have never been played outside the > > city limits. > > let me state how i feel about people outside detroit playing at the > festival: i dont mind it at all. last year was a great case with all > the dutch people playing who obviously have enough connection in their > music (even though it is not music i buy, or listen to on anything > resembling a regular basis) to deserve to be there. same thing with > past performers like 4 hero and rhythm and sound and even richie > hawtin. however, i dont feel like the festival should be concentrated > on those people. they should be given their due respect as great > artists, but this is DETROIT'S electronic music festival. this should > be all about the detroit artists. and now its just not. taking the > "detroit" out of it and all youve got is some random electronic music. > and thats a rave. what that has to do with detroit, i'm not sure. but > i guess we'll all find out in a couple days! > > tom > > > -- (disrupt) www.jahtari.org This e-mail message and any accompanying attachments may contain information that is confidential and subject to legal privilege. 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