Hello, All! This topic, debate, concept is at the heart of the colonial experience, every culture that has been colonized has been marginalized too, it is a part of colonization that changes the paradigm such that their colonizers involvement in whatever culture becomes the norm, for example - Australia.
What happens during marginalization? ----------------------------------------- www.dictionary.com mar·gin·al·ize ( P ) Pronunciation Key (märj-n-lz) tr.v. mar·gin·al·ized, mar·gin·al·iz·ing, mar·gin·al·iz·es To relegate or confine to a lower or outer limit or edge, as of social standing. margin·al·i·zation (-l-zshn) n. marginalization n : the social process of becoming or being made marginal (especially as a group within the larger society); "the marginalization of the underclass"; "the marginalization of literature" [syn: marginalisation] --------------------------------------------------------------------------- During the marginalization process you create an environment that reduces those outside of the culture of the colonizers impotent. For example the colonization process of Hawaii, the native culture of Hawaii was marginalized by colonization / occupation of those Islands, after the culture was marginalized the King was only a figurehead. I would say the Detroit Artists that created the "Detroit Techno music Industry" (because that's what it is, by the time your art form get's to be a genre it's already an industry) have been marginalized from access to the fruits of those labors, if this were an "Electronic Music Festival" that was not developed off of the Genre "Detroit Techno" music, then there would be little expectation of seeing any "Detroit Techno" artists, DJs, performing. How did we get here? After Derrick May was signed to Kool Kat for management everything changed, as the UK began to embrace the "Detroit sound" they now had a local goto...Kool Kat, so through Kool Kat the "Detroit Techno" music genre was infectiously introduced to the UK and as the European label with the main connection to this sound Kool Kat became the European label well known for acces to this sound too. Before Kool Kat there was no direct connection to "Detroit Techno" nor any way to control the paradigm that "Detroit Techno" had created which was those Blacks in Detroit sholl is Funky! As Kool Kat provided management they setup remixes and production for DM, KS and JA as this happened the UK Electronic sound was changing, they now had direct access to the Detroit recording process so now Nexus 21 becomes Altern 8 and the "Detroit Techno" genre becomes "Electronica", that would be where the serious marginalization of "Detroit Techno" truly started. All the "Techno" charts Kevin Saunderson topped as "Inner City" were now "Electronica" charts and it was a lot more fodder there too because with the genre name change you got a whole new set of players added, not from Detroit. After "Electronica" was established as a genre, the Indie dominance of it would then be marginalized by larger labels and better distribution such that Kool Kat gives way to Ten Virgin Records, and now, other countries in Europe can get their local record labels to see what's possible with this new genre of "Electronica" it's no longer just about "those funky Blacks from Detroit" but electronic artists of any color could be a part of the "Electronica" experience / genre. After fixing the "Electronica" moniker on their artist's, larger labels poised themselves to leverage this new genre and the ERA of the "Techno or House" mix is born, (Thanks Kevin). Before "Electronica" who would expect a Techno mix not from one of Detroit's own? Anybody can do a Techno mix now. Good or Bad, neither, just a recognition of how we got here. So at this point "Detroit Techno" has been rendered "Impotent" and as a show of this you can have a "Detriot Electronic Music Festival" without a majority of Detroit acts. If you have it in Windsor, with a majority of artists from Toronto can you still call it the DEMF? According to this group you can and that's called changing the paradigm. -------------------------------------------------------www.dictionary.com par·a·digm ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pr-dm, -dm) n. 1. One that serves as a pattern or model. 2. A set of assumptions, concepts, values, and practices that constitutes a way of viewing reality for the community that shares them, especially in an intellectual discipline. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Rebuttal _"But unless "Detroit Techno" took the legal steps to protect the labeling _of music under that title then all you are left with is some assumed level _of respect from artists outside Detroit that the label belongs only to _Detroit artists." Well, if your familiar with copyrights, publishing or trademark laws then this sort of thing is covered under what's called "usage", if you have a logo, image or sound that you use regularly for commerce, that's considered "usage" and it's exclusive to your company, based on your company's usage of that image, logo, or sound. You can also go further by registering your TM with the US Federal government for International protections. Remember seeing the "Made In Detroit" logo on early RetroActive Record releases, that's considered usage even if we didn't design it.....check your Indisc / Buzz records too....now look for the 33RPM logo and the RetroActive logo, I use these logos to identify our product and so you can know "oh this is from those guys in Detroit", now to extrapolate that out further when the moniker the "Motown Sound" was coined it was for music coming from Detroit with a particular sound (they also make polka here), if you put Lawrence Welk's music on and Derrick May's music on you can divide the room by people who identify with each particular sound and then you can ask each one of those groups what they think of the Motown Sound and not confuse anyone there. This "Industry level of respect" is used by many companies everywhere, this is why GEMA can collect royalties for records in Germany with Ascap and BMI publishing interests. Why shouldn't "Detroit Techno" be exclusive to those that coined the phrase? Can I call myself a German if I want to? Sure. But, who's going to respect that when they know you grew up on the Eastside of Detroit (can you say Manilli Vanilli)? So the reasoning here is not reasonable and we can prove that not even the industry itself can agree with lack of nomenclature because that fuc s things up. What if anybody could be the "Sony" brand, or the "Nike" brand. The reason people come to the festival is to show respect and support to what cats are doing In D'town, and party and Bullshit (drinks on you). Personally, I've found that people who respect what you do, don't care what color you are, if the people producing the DEMF had more respect for the "Detroit Techno" music scene as a whole they would have more "Detroiters" performing. Okay let's get personal - My theoretical Lineups would include(across several stages): Friday: John Johr, Keith Kemp, Shake, Terrance Parker, and Aux88 (all closing acts on different stages), Saturday: Beatdown sounds crew (Norm Talley, Delano Smith, Mike Clark), RetroActive crew (Art Payne, djManiak, djMaliq, djBlkout), +8 crew (Richie Hawtin, John Acuaviva), and Women on Wax (all closing acts on different stages). Sunday: UR, Blake Baxter and Scan 7, Mr'De', and Dan Bell (all closing acts on different stages). Monday: Derrick May, Kevin Saunderson, CC, Kenny Larkin (live performance)and Juan Atkins (all closing acts on different stages). Notice in my line-up Detroiters close, leaving many other slots for other artists from elsewhere that produce the "Detroit Techno sound". And that's my time.......djBlkout drops the mike, but not the mix....... Peas! -----Original Message----- From: disrupt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 10:15 AM To: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: (313) a question regarding DEMF and the history of Detroit techno Yes Tom! Highly interesting discussion, with all its ups and downs, ultimately about the state of Detroit today. Maybe a new line of thought on this: for sure Detroit music influenced many people around the globe, many ripped it off, some took it and went forward (like the Dutch crew, Berlin, etc.), the whole plus and minus of it revealed itself over the last years. BUT: didn't Detroit music got influenced by other music as well over the time? Sucking those influences in, processing and using them in it's unique way? For sure it didn't 100% generate from Zero and from itself only. It's not a closed-in microcosm, completely sealed off from the world. So: shouldn't this fact be reflected in the DEMF lineup somehow? Detroit certainly gave a lot but I think it also 'took', works both channels. What can be discussed, of course, are the porportions of this give/take share and how it ultimately is weighed in the lineup. Anyway, keep it going. Such thoughts have to be processed. Jan On Thu, 18 May 2006 08:22:54 -0400, "Thomas D. Cox, Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote : > On 5/17/06, as if .. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Tom .. for starters I like you passion .. ' > > thanks ;) > > > You are suggesting that the only people who can call their Techno "Detroit Techno" > > are people who are born and raised in Detroit. > > ummm, that is a bit obvious, right? i mean i guess you dont > necessarily have to have lived every second of your life in detroit to > qualify, but certainly a long term connection with the city and its > culture should be a requirement. say techno artist X moves to detroit, > his music is not now "detroit techno", thats for sure. in fact, to me > someone like 4 Hero has more to do with detroit techno than someone > like the Beretta music people. > > > In a commercial sense you are probably following a clean line of thought. On a > > personal level I see you trying to protect the energy and truth of the early Detroit > > Techno. I see you also trying to protect the interests of local Detroit Artists. > > for me its not only about techno though, its about house and electro > and ghetto tech and even soul and hiphop. anything that has a > distinctly detroit flavour that is recognizable! every one of those > genres that has a sound associated with detroit has been ripped off by > and also influenced people outside of detroit. > > > These are all valid things to do. However in order to protect these things you will > > need to essentially crush what is "Detroit Techno" into a can cover it in a series of > > warning labels and putting it on a special shelf for everyone to purchase. > > i dont necessarily think that is true. the good thing about something > as generic as "detroit music" is ever changing, and will grow to > include different genres and different ideas. but it certainly doesnt > need to include every single style of music made in detroit. detroit > is a large city, im sure theres some polka players there. but there's > no detroit polka sound! > > > But unless "Detroit Techno" took the legal steps to protect the labeling of music > > under that title then all you are left with is some assumed level of respect from > > artists outside Detroit that the label belongs only to Detroit artists. > > > > I believe if "Detroit Techno" had done this. If it had protected by legal means the > > labeling of music as "Detroit Techno" we would not be seeing what we are seeing > > today, which is a global interest and support for the music form. > > hmm, i dont agree. look at "baltimore club music". its now hip to be > down with that, and plenty of people outside of baltimore are doing > so. but there arent b-more club tracks made anywhere outside of > baltimore. there are people ripping that sound off, but without the > culture and the place that birthed it, all it is is a cheap knockoff. > > > Tom ' I think you are totally on the correct wave length in terms of trying to gain > > the correct attention for Detroit Music people ... > > > > But I also think you are missing the point. The DEMF regardless of the play list > > is drawing a huge amount of attention from around the globe towards Detroit and > > the modern music form of Techno that is related to Detroit. > > but my argument is that most of this stuff has nothing to do with > detroit. POTD has nothing to do with detroit on any level. photek > might have 10 years ago, but not today. ditto donald glaude and doc > martin and josh wink (well, i guess he has something to do with it in > the manner of ripping off specific tracks!) and otto von shirach and > etcetc. why these people who have NOTHING to do with detroit are > playing at the exclusion of those people who DO have something very > essential to do with detroit is what im peeved about. there's no > connection to be made from listening to those artists to get to the > detroit artists. whats really sad is that if you wanted to have > breakcore represented, you could get the low res people to do > something since theyve been doing their thing in detroit since 1998 or > so. and jungle wise, soundmurderer definitely has something going on > that is much more related to detroit simply because the guy's life has > obviously been influenced by growing up in/around detroit. so drawing > attention to these other people is serving absolutely no one except > those whose name will now be associated with something they had > nothing to do with. and thats wack. > > > No other city in the world can boast to be what Detroit is .. and from where I am > > standing the DEMF is a celebration of what Detroit has started, and the fact that > > the festival is in the heart of the city is testament to what Detroit has committed > > to continue. > > > > While I respect you are upset, and for many good reasons. Until they start holding > > the DEMF in New York or Berlin I think you should work on the positives. > > look, since they announced paxahau was doing the festival this year, > ive given them the benefit of the doubt at every stage. initially i > said "well, i know what theyre known for, but hopefully theyll keep > the big picture in mind when picking the acts to play." then the > initial lineup came out, and it was obvious that they had done no such > thing. they said they would announce more lineup later, so i held out > that they would add much more detroit stuff. then the full lineup was > released, with only a few good additions and lots of other extraneous > nonsense piled on. so i assumed that with so few detroit > representations that theyd give those people whose blood sweat and > tears they owed the existance of the festival to SOME iota of credit > by giving them good timeslots to rock the crowds. of course, i was > wrong yet again. they have had numerous chances to do ANYTHING right, > and aside from booking rob hood and giving him a good timeslot, they > have screwed everything else up! > > > But .. perhaps you think I have no right to comment because I don't live in Detroit. > > nah, i dont think anything of the sort. in case you didnt know, im not > from detroit, nor do i have any connection to it outside of my deeply > held passion for its music and by extension its culture and it. > > > If thats the case then Detroit Techno should have never been played outside the > > city limits. > > let me state how i feel about people outside detroit playing at the > festival: i dont mind it at all. last year was a great case with all > the dutch people playing who obviously have enough connection in their > music (even though it is not music i buy, or listen to on anything > resembling a regular basis) to deserve to be there. same thing with > past performers like 4 hero and rhythm and sound and even richie > hawtin. however, i dont feel like the festival should be concentrated > on those people. they should be given their due respect as great > artists, but this is DETROIT'S electronic music festival. this should > be all about the detroit artists. and now its just not. taking the > "detroit" out of it and all youve got is some random electronic music. > and thats a rave. what that has to do with detroit, i'm not sure. but > i guess we'll all find out in a couple days! > > tom > > > -- (disrupt) www.jahtari.org
