No, that's not the UNIX philosophy. That's the X/Linux/GNU philosophy. Go
read "Program Design in the UNIX Environment" by Kernighan and Pike to
see what I mean.
Get educated. Don't you even know where X came from?
Just a funny idea: have you noticed that the "Kernighan, Pike, Ritchie,
Thomspon" quartet always lacks two legs? Am I right on this one? There is
K&R, K&P, and P&T. Have yet to see P&R, is there one?
In Plan 9, it's Alt t m, as three individual keystrokes. See keyboard(6)
to find out what your system would see as Alt. You don't need to keep
the Alt held down. Now send yourself an email with Alt f a (the for all
character) and Alt * P (uppercase pi)
How about going back to four buckey bits, hacker? For your information, Pi
is within ISO 8859, 8859-7 to be precise. Now you do one thing: enter a
daleth, put one rafe above it--i.e. "דֿ"--, and tell me the result.
I do Windows. When I need to type in another language--and I often need
that for three languages--I press [Alt]+[Shift] and I get the keyboard
layout for that language. The right scan codes go to the right characters
codes which in turn go to the right glyphs for every major alphabet/script
on Earth, including right-to-left scripts.
When I need a Unicode character out of the ordinary (like this one, "㊪")
I press [Alt] and hold it, press [+] on numeric keypad once, then type in
the hexadecimal code for that character. "Any" two-byte Unicode character.
I learn the code out of Character Map from which I can get the character
even more easily.
http://www.fileformat.info/tip/microsoft/enter_unicode.htm
Impressive. Someone learned something from us after all. (1985 -- when
did curl come out?)
"Us?" What is 1985? Your year of birth or Plan 9's or what?
cURL's author didn't need to learn from "you"--whoever your "you"
denotes--to do a simple job.
Here's its history: http://curl.haxx.se/docs/history.html.
It began in 1997. Gopher support was removed soon after because Gopher is a
dead (or dying?)protocol.
It would be about 75% shorter. And you can't just use the system calls.
libc is built around subroutines. In all, Rob Pike got connected to an IP
address in 2 lines of code compared to ~20 for sockets. ("The Good, The
Bad, and The Ugly")
When and where did Rob Pike do it? Didn't he incidentally leverage two (or
more) additional abstraction layers over the network stack and the socket
abstraction to achieve that?
I can "get connected to an IP address"--overlooking your glaring ignorance
about the fact that on IP (Internet Protocol) machines "connect" to
_endpoints_ not "IP addresses"--in a one liner on Microsoft .NET framework.
Nevertheless, that doesn't make .NET framework my platform of choice for
programming. Boast it when you can _do_ it. Whatever I tell you I _can_ do,
I _can_ do. Whatever I _can't_ do, I keep to myself.
No comment.
"Thank you, again."
--On Tuesday, August 19, 2008 10:08 PM -0400 Pietro Gagliardi
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Aug 19, 2008, at 9:39 PM, Eris Discordia wrote:
No, that's not what I said. I said that Plan 9 obeys the UNIX
philosophy,
not that it was UNIX. GNU obeys this philosophy (up to the point of
where
to draw the lines on the size of tools). And to some extent, Windows
(Windows Movie Maker doesn't call up another computer now, does it?)
I guess "the UNIX philosophy"--whatever that vague phrase is
supposed to mean--contains "the X philosophy." The core dictum goes:
"mechanism, not policy." That is, they give you the "femur," you
determine its use. Russ Cox knows this better; he's the one at the
MIT. "The Plan 9 philosophy" goes as far as telling you to "not ask
for a ruler" in your text editor (ruler in vi := a pair of numbers;
column, row).
No, that's not the UNIX philosophy. That's the X/Linux/GNU philosophy. Go
read "Program Design in the UNIX Environment" by Kernighan and Pike to
see what I mean.
Mac, and I use OS X Mail (so I can get my hands on IMAP's folder
system).
How about the fact that Simon was able to give you a trademark
symbol? Do
yourself a favor: YOU test it. Look in /lib/keyboard for some
characters
and send them here. If they come back as sent, you've proven my
point.
Otherwise, you found a bug.
Plan 9 is not _my_ pet OS. 9people, and you who are too young to be
a 9person, are taking pride in "UTF-8." That's been the gesture for
a over a decade. Now, it's old, it's insignificant, and Plan 9
doesn't even deliver. Anyway, _you_ made a claim. You have to prove
it. I don't even run Plan 9 anymore. Gave it up.
Steve Simon's trademark character, I presume, was generated by [Alt]
+0153--you call [Alt] an "Option" key, right? Well below 255, it's
just extended/8-bit ASCII. Not right-to-left, not even out of ISO
8859. You could generate that character even on MS-DOS.
Though, his email's header says the charset if UTF-8. No big deal.
In Plan 9, it's Alt t m, as three individual keystrokes. See keyboard(6)
to find out what your system would see as Alt. You don't need to keep
the Alt held down. Now send yourself an email with Alt f a (the for all
character) and Alt * P (uppercase pi)
gopherfs -m/n/gopher tokyo.ac.jp # Demonstration; don't
try this
motorola -m/n/cell -M 'RAZR V3' 555 555 5555
cp /n/gopher/a/b/r.tokyo.jpg /n/cell/pictures/r.tokyo.jpg
Zing! Who wrote the fs behind /n/cell? You got Morotola to write it
for you?
$ curl gopher://tokyo.ac.jp/a/b/r.tokyo.jpg
$ ifconfig cellnetif num "555 555 5555"
$ mount -t motofs /dev/cellnetif /mnt/cell
$ cp ./r.tokyo.jpg /mnt/cell/
(You gotta use an archaic version of curl. Gopher support was
removed when mammoths roamed the Earth)
Of course, motofs and cellnetif are imaginary, just like your
"motorola." The problem is the same on UNIX and Plan 9, but on UNIX
it is much more likely that you find someone who solved it before.
And it is much less likely that someone tells you it isn't "the way
to do it."
Incidentally, someone I know has recently bought a Motorola A1200
that runs a nice tiny Linux.
Impressive. Someone learned something from us after all. (1985 -- when
did curl come out?)
Write that in sockets. Since that is what you use, don't you?
Write that in Plan 9 system calls. That is what _you_ use, don't you?
It would be about 75% shorter. And you can't just use the system calls.
libc is built around subroutines. In all, Rob Pike got connected to an IP
address in 2 lines of code compared to ~20 for sockets. ("The Good, The
Bad, and The Ugly")
Good riddance. But you're missing a wonderful opportunity. Just
open your
eyes.
"Thank you."
No comment.
