Hi :) LiveCd is excellent. It's even better as a LiveUsb because it's a bit faster but LiveCd is pretty cool. The "Try it" instead of "Install Now" is brilliant for using a machine that is not your own or for doing online banking without leaving a trace (except at your and your bank's ISPs of course but just not on the local desktop machine).
I wouldn't remove Windows. If you are installing Windows into a Virtual Machine then it's just a reinstall to the same machine so you should theoretically be able to use the same product/licence key as you use for your normal install of Windows. I managed it once but i had to phone MS Customer Support and argue a bit. Regards from Tom :) ----- Forwarded Message ----- >From: Alex Midence <alex.mide...@gmail.com> >To: 'Tom Davies' <tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk>; 'Tom Randall' <kf6...@comcast.net> >Cc: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org >Sent: Thursday, 30 August 2012, 18:33 >Subject: RE: Ubuntu LiveCd & Wubi - was Java Nightmare > > >What you say is true but, I was going for simplicity and ease of setup for >someone unfamiliar with Linux. I understood everything you wrote but, that’s >just because I’m a Linuxoid who likes getting downand dirty with the cli. >Somebody coming from Windows may not be. Using a live CD is fast and reasonly >uncomplicated. Just put in the cd, launch Orca decline installation and boom, >you’re in. All you do then is alt f2 to get the run menu and type writer. Or, >alt f1 and arrow to it in the Unity launcher list. Stick a flash drive into >the machine and save your files onto it and, yes, I’m going to say it, >“PRESTO!” =) NO long cli strings and no fancy mucking around with hardware >and grub menus and worrying about your main OS getting superceeded by your >cool new one. > >To address your point about the virtual machine, I have heard of people >installing Linux and then having Windows inside of it with a virtual machine >running NVDA. They say it works well. I haven’t done it because I don’t >relish the idea of uninstalling Windows, installing Linux and then >reinstalling Windows on the VM. If you’ve already got Windows, my solution >will probably take you an hour to set up, maybe 2 if you need to learn your >way. As for the ntfs versus ext3 issue for the file systems, the average user >won’t know the difference. I haven’t noticed one. It works very nicely for >me. It’s great because I still have all the different accessible apps for >Windows I am used to and then I get a whole host of new cool stuff to use in >Linux that is accessible. It’s a serious force multiplyer. As I’ve written >before on this topic, nothing beats having cake and actualy getting to eat it >too. > >Now then, if you really want a turnkey solution involving the virtual machine, >Vinux offers just that. If you get the 3.0 version, it’s based on Ubuntu >Lucid and has two magnifyers to choose from already installed, one being Orca >and the other is the Compiz screen magnification software. The live cd’s of >Vinux work nicely too. However, 3.0 runs Open Office and not Libreoffice. > >Best regards, >Alex M > > >From:Tom Davies [mailto:tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk] >Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 9:13 AM >To: Alex Midence; Tom Randall >Cc: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org >Subject: Ubuntu LiveCd & Wubi - was Java Nightmare > >Hi :) >Ahhh, a LiveCd session of Ubuntu 12.04 sounds like a fast way to a quick >result. > >I guess a fresh install of 12.04 on a new partition would have things set up >right too? About 10-20Gb is a comfortable amount of space for Ubuntu if you >can't share /home or Swap. The fresh install sorts out a boot-menu so that >you can choose to use a pre-existing OS that you already have on your system >but by default it puts the new install of 12.04 at the top of that menu. To >change that login to 12.04 and get to a command-line and paste in these lines; > >cd /etc/grub.d >sudo mv 30_os-prober 08_os-prober >sudo update-grub > >If it makes a difference which side the minimise, full-screen and close >buttons are on the title-bar at the top of windows then you can change them >from left (like a Mac) to right (like Windows) by copy&pasting this line > >gconftool-2 --set "/apps/metacity/general/button_layout" --type string >"menu:minimize,maximize,close" > >Note that should be all on one line but it's wrapped-around on my monitor at >my resolution. > > > >I concurr about using MS Office if that is what it takes to get a good result >quickly. Obviously i would prefer people use OpenOffice but if using MS >Office is what it takes to get the job done then do so. Sometimes migrating >to OpenSource takes a while and until you've managed it you still need to be >able to get your main work done. > >As for Virtual Machines i think having Windows as the host and a Gnu&Linux >inside it is the 'wrong' way around. One of the crucial advantages of >Gnu&Linux is lost because you would be using the flaky Ntfs file-system rather >than the solidly reliable Ext3. I suspect that the ideal way around would >mean Orca wouldn't work (unless you ran a VM inside Windows inside the main >VM!) so again the 'wrong' way suddenly becomes the right thing to do. > >Ubuntu offers a better way than a Virtual Machine. you can install Ubuntu >directly inside Windows using Ubuntu's "Wubi" installer. Just put the Ubuntu >Cd in after booting into Windows and the option should pop-up. Few other >distros offer this type of option so you would have to use a VM for them. >With Ubuntu (or Puppy) you just get the extra possibility. > >Is there an alternative to Orca? What do other people use with LO? >Regards from >Tom :) > > >> >>________________________________ >> >>From:Alex Midence <alex.mide...@gmail.com> >>To: Tom Randall <kf6...@comcast.net> >>Cc: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org >>Sent: Thursday, 30 August 2012, 14:21 >>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Java nightmare & FAQ wiki-page >> >>Yes, I remember all that with Linux. However, much progress has been >>made in the last two years to get thing sworking out of the box. >>Seriously, if you are pressed for time, the single fastest and best >>way to go is to download an iso of Ubuntu Precise which has >>acessibility out of the box, pop it into your cd rom drive, power up >>your machine and hit control s when you hear the drumroll. When Orca >>starts talking, alt tab to the installation dialog and select the try >>it out option so you can run it as a live installation. It will come >>up and Libre Office is already installed with all the extensions and >>plugins and so forth to make it talk with Orca. Save your files onto >>a flash drive or your hard drive so you can pick up where you left off >>next time you power up your pc. When you are done working for that >>day, simply power off your machine and take out the cd. When it turns >>back on, it's going to run windows and be none the wiser that you had >>Ubuntu running things for a time. >> >> >>I know this sounds complex but, if you are approaching a deadline, you >>need to do something to get the ball rolling. If this is not >>something you want to tackle, I seriously advise you to put aside any >>qualms you have about MS Office and load it up. You need something >>that will get the job done. Period, end of story. If your job is on >>the line, it is no time to be making statements about software freedom >>and so forth by sticking to Open or Libre Office in hopes that you'll >>stumble on some magic setup combination that'll get you going. I know >>what I am saying will probably upset some people who read this list >>but, frankly, if I have to choose between giving somebody advice that >>will keep them employed or chant the party line, the party line will >>just have to get on as best it can. I like free and open source >>software. If it were up to me, I'd switch each and everything I use >>to run a fully Libre system at work and at home. Thing is, there are >>too many a11y gaps all over the place for you to do that productively >>and efficiently without investing a large amount of time in learning >>all sorts of workarounds when there are ways to do what needs toing in >>proprietary software that you can meld with your open source stuff. I >>have found this approach to be much more powerful than the sum of its >>parts. >> >>Best regards, >>Alex M >> >>On 8/29/12, Tom Randall <kf6...@comcast.net> wrote: >>> Hi Alex and all. >>> >>> Well that certainly might be something I will consider doing at some point. >>> >>> Truthfully I've played with Linux on and off over the years and if I really >>> >>> thought it could replace winblows for me I would probably switch in a new >>> york minute. However when looking into it it looked like you had to damn >>> near be a computer science major to get it fully up and accessible, you had >>> >>> to install extensions for this, front ends for that, read through reams of >>> docs to figure out how to do all this, and so on and so on. It just looked >>> >>> like it was going to take way more time and effort than I was or am willing >>> >>> to put into it. So maybe when I can pick up a little bigger hd for this >>> system running both Linux and windows on here might be the way to go. >>> >>> This is not the place to start a windows vs. Linux debate and I assure you >>> all I am not trying to start one, if people have the time and patience to >>> get Linux up and running and it works for them believe me I think that is >>> great and wish I could go that route. As to which platform is better >>> there's not much of a debate about that as far as I am concerned, in many >>> ways Linux is superior. Alex as you said in another message and I agree >>> with this, to me the platform is secondary, however I need something that >>> works, that is the bottom line. I hope I don't end up having to install >>> more MS bloatware on this system, it runs pretty decent the way it is, but >>> I'm running out of time and excuses about getting this paperwork done and >>> need a reliable and accessible way to do it. >>> >>> I may try going back to open office, the thing that worries me is the calc, >>> >>> that is what seems to be the most problematic for me at the moment. These >>> guys where I work are XL freaks and I absolutely have to have a way to work >>> >>> with XL spreadsheets. I do also have a MacBook with LO on it so I may see >>> if the calc is any better on there. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Tom >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Alex Midence >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 1:46 PM >>> To: Tom Randall >>> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Java nightmare & FAQ wiki-page >>> >>> Very sorry, Tom. I'm fresh out. Open office may just be your last >>> bet. I understand they sucked in all the Lotus Symphony code. >>> Symphony has a reputation for being quite accessible. I don't know if >>> Libreoffice got this code or not. Hate to say it but, it just may >>> have to be MS Office for you in windows. The only other thing you >>> might try is using it the way *I* do but it's a bit complex: >>> >>> 1. Install vmware. >>> 2. Create a Linux virtual machine (Ubuntu works well) >>> 3. Access Libreoffice in Linux as a guest operating system with Orca >>> as the screen reader. >>> 4. Keep windows as the host system and go back and forth between it >>> and Linux in the course of your day. >>> >>> I use Libreoffice at home. This is how I do it because I have some >>> windows apps I find quite useful and because browsing the web in Linux >>> will exhaust the patience of the saintliest of men. The accessible >>> experience in Linux for Libre Office and Open Ofice is like night and >>> day compared to Windows. So, for me, I use MsOffice when I'm in >>> windows land and Libre office in Linux. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Alex >>> >>> >>> On 8/29/12, Tom Randall <kf6...@comcast.net> wrote: >>>> Hi Alex. >>>> >>>> Oh no worries about asking. So far as I can tell the assistive >>>> technology >>>> checkbox is checked, I've tried it both ways since I cannot tell for sure >>>> >>>> if >>>> >>>> the box is checked since checkboxes are not being read. >>>> >>>> This is the only program I am aware of that I am using that requires java >>>> accessibility so I have nothing else to test it with. >>>> >>>> I only have the latest jre installed, that was the first thing I tried >>>> when >>>> >>>> all this started, totally removed java from the system and cleaned up the >>>> registry and did a fresh install. This is a 32-bit system so that is not >>>> >>>> an >>>> >>>> issue. If you've any ideas I'd be glad for them. >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> >>>> Tom >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Alex Midence >>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 1:00 PM >>>> To: 'Tom Randall' >>>> Subject: RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] Java nightmare & FAQ wiki-page >>>> >>>> Tom, I hate to ask, I'm sure you've taken care of this but ... um .. you >>>> do >>>> have screen reader/assistive technology enabled in the options menu >>>> right? >>>> I guess the other question is, how are other Java applications working >>>> for >>>> you? Are you able to use other stuff that relies on the access bridge? >>>> Aso, how many JRE's do you have on there? I once had a problem with the >>>> java access bridge that turned out to be caused by me having 3 jre's on >>>> my >>>> system and the JAB being on only two out of those. Guess which one I was >>>> using? Installing it by hand in the third one fixed it for me but only >>>> after much frustration and wasted time. >>>> >>>> Alex >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Tom Randall [mailto:kf6...@comcast.net] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 1:57 PM >>>> To: Alex Midence >>>> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Java nightmare & FAQ wiki-page >>>> >>>> hi Alex, Tom and all. >>>> >>>> Yes I am indeed on this list. Here's the latest update. I forced Java >>>> to >>>> do an update so that it would presumably get the latest version with the >>>> Jab >>>> pre-installed so I wouldn't have to monkey with that. This appeared to >>>> go >>>> fine and I was able to turn on the Jab via the Windows control panel. >>>> When >>>> I run LO 3.60 and go into the java it shows that java is correctly >>>> installed >>>> with accessibility. However it behaves exactly the same, menus are not >>>> read >>>> and neither is the state of checkboxes. When I have the energy I am >>>> going >>>> to totally uninstall it and delete all data and install the latest >>>> version >>>> from the site and see if that works. >>>> >>>> I used Open Office for quite some time and as you said found it pretty >>>> acceptable in most cases and I suppose I could go back to that if >>>> necessary. >>>> >>>> I just figured it'd be better to be running something that is still being >>>> developed and worked on. Fortunately I do not need the presentation >>>> package >>>> so whether impress is accessible or not doesn't matter to me all that >>>> much >>>> although I would hope this will be worked on. What I absolutely have to >>>> have is writer and calc working, I have to be able to process documents >>>> and >>>> do invoices for my work. >>>> >>>> So that's where I am now. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Tom >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Alex Midence >>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 11:22 AM >>>> To: Tom Davies >>>> Cc: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org ; Tom Randall >>>> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Java nightmare & FAQ wiki-page >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Sorry to hear you are having such a time of it. I don't know how open >>>> you >>>> are to this suggestion but, I've had success with Open Office in Windows. >>>> Libreoffice has not worked for me. I use Jaws and NVDA. I have never >>>> used >>>> Supernova so, I don't know how it will react but Openoffice 3.6 (I think >>>> that's the latest release), worked ok in writer. Jaws even read Writer >>>> ok. >>>> NVDA did just wonderfully with it. >>>> Calc was usable in NVDA but not in Jaws so, I don't know how it'll do in >>>> Supernova. Impress was totally unusable pretty much all around. >>>> It was a bummer for me. I'm a corporate trainer. I get up in front of >>>> groups of people with presentations up on a projecter and gas away at >>>> them >>>> about this and that. Thus far, I hate to say it but Microsoft Powerpoint >>>> is >>>> the best and most accessible presentation product for someone in my >>>> situation. Impress has yet to Impress me in either Libre or Open Office. >>>> >>>> hth, >>>> Alex M >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 8/29/12, Tom Davies <tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >>>>> Hi :) >>>>> I am not sure if Tom Randall is on this list. You guys seem to have >>>>> solved a lot of these java issues so i thought forwarding the thread >>>>> here just in case you can help hi8m where others can't. >>>>> >>>>> Also i made a rough wiki-page that is intended to help people solve >>>>> java issues. >>>>> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Faq/Java >>>>> I think it might need sub-pages to deal with issues such as the bridge. >>>>> If >>>>> you are able to radically rewrite the wiki-page to make it useful and >>>>> need me to make extra sub-pages then please just let me know through >>>>> this >>>> list. >>>>> It sometimes takes me a couple of days to react so my apologies for >>>>> being so slack! If you are new to wiki-editing then i might be able >>>>> to help with formatting and other issues. >>>>> Regards from >>>>> Tom :) >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>-- >>Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to accessibility+h...@global.libreoffice.org >>Problems? >>http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ >>Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette >>List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ >>All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted >> >> >> > > -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to accessibility+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
