Dear Mr. Niranjan: No personal offence intended. I understand your point about dealing with frauds, but, as I said, this is something common and is not exclusive for a VI person. I respect you and salute all the work you have done for the community. Please do not mistake my self confidence for arrogance. Self confidence comes only by acknowledging that others have the same. Sorry if I sounded offensive.
Subramani -----Original Message----- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of niranjanraj urs Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 3:55 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Dear Subrmanyam Namasthee. I admire your thoughts. Yes, if you are so self confident , go ahead. I shall not demotivate you. Aged almost fifty, maybe my thinking happens to be conservative. And in this particular incident I wanted to tell what I did based on my experience in organising programmes on prevention of frauds in banks. I have only shared my thoughts. One can take it or leave it. Niranjan On 5/27/10, Subramani L <lsubram...@deccanherald.co.in> wrote: > Hai Niranjan: > > I know I am repeating myself but let me do that in order to clarify > things... We can't see. There is a certain degree of limitations about > it, but we have intelligence enough to identify between risk and > non-risk situations. You have got to believe this since some of us work > in places and take up responsibilities given to us believing our ability > to perform well; this is not possible if we don't have the basic > intelligence to decide between what is safe and what is danger? Alright, > sometimes things may go wrong. I may be mugged, pocketed or someone can > bash me up and take the money... This is the most common form of threat. > Pl don't try convincing me that a person who is fully aware of what > he/she is doing by asking the banker an ATM card is foolish enough to > lose his/her money. When you and others repeatedly side with the > bankers, what you say doesn't matter. What you imply by saying things > like that is that "we may be capable of earning the money, but we are > not capable of safeguarding it". This defeats the very purpose of you > and I doing a job for living. So pl don't say that, even as a token of > reconciliation to the bankers. Certain things in life are > non-negotiable. This obviously includes our self-esteem, self-respect > and our trust in ourselves. If you don't trust you, it will be harder to > convince others. This is not ego, it is the belief in yourself that you > will mostly take the right decisions for yourself. I don't understand > how come this is not becoming clear to many who have been siding with > the bankers? I say all these without meaning any disrespect to the > banking fraternity. I only request them not to act as the guardian of my > money, just be a good service provider. That is all. > > Subramani > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in > [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of niranjanraj > urs > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 3:51 PM > To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in > Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking > > Dear Friends, > Namasthee to all. I feel some of our friends are unneccesarily taking > tough positions on the banker. Frauds happen even to sighted persons > is a good argument, but the chances of frauds committed against blind > persons would be certainly higher. In our own interest it would be > better to take the debitcard/ATM card in the name of spouse or any > other dependable relative. For this to happen the account should be > opened / made as "either or survivour". > It is my humble suggestion that on practical considerations both the > branch manager as well as the blind customer has to be conservative in > their approach and dealings.These words I am writing based on my > experience of conducting a number of training programmes on preventing > frauds in banks as trainer and co-ordinator in my Institute. > YS > Dr.B.Niranjan Raj Urs > > On 5/26/10, Subramani L <lsubram...@deccanherald.co.in> wrote: >> There is one thing to play the devils advocate, but it is quite > another >> to imply that all blind persons are incapable of taking care of their >> finances. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in >> [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Asudani, >> Rajesh >> Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:03 AM >> To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in >> Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking >> >> Mr. Bhavani >> Please substantiate your arguments with written documents. >> I am afraid now we are going overboard. >> As if ATM frauds never happen with sighted customers. >> And, please inform me of any case where due to such fraud, any banker >> has lost the job. >> Even if a fraud happens to a blind customer due to his dependence on >> another while operating, we can always cite RBI circular in court. >> >> >> >> Regards >> >> "Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create >> Him." >> >> --Arthur C. Clarke >> >> (Rajesh Asudani) >> >> Assistant General Manager, >> Reserve Bank of India >> Nagpur >> 09420397185 >> O: 0712 2806676 >> Res: 0712 2591349 >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in >> [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of BHAWANI >> SHANKAR VERMA >> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:09 PM >> To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in >> Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking >> >> yes! this is a matter, if that anybody did a fraud with that blind >> person, >> cheated him, then. my four or five colleagues will loose their job, if >> that >> blind person stand before the court. who issued ATM card? the employee >> who >> entered his card details on issue register, the employee entered his >> details >> on CBS system. who will come to convince the court that entire risk > goes >> to >> that blind person? >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "AMEEN" <ameen.etta...@gmail.com> >> To: <accessindia@accessindia.org.in> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 11:00 AM >> Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking >> >> >>> screen reading software has nothing to do with issuing ATM cards to > VI >>> persons. >>> for, he can operate >>> it with the help of anybody whom he chooses. >>> that is non of the business of the bank. >>> if there is any risk involved in it, the person will bear it. >>> then why should raise all lame excuses and arguments? >>> are you willing to comply with the rules and regulations stipulated > by >>> RBI? >>> Ameen.----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA" <bsvermad...@gmail.com> >>> To: "B. R. Nautial" <brnaut...@gmail.com>; "access india" >>> <accessindia@accessindia.org.in> >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 8:18 AM >>> Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking >>> >>> >>>> you are absolutely right sir, i found that only blind customer's > part >> is >>>> discussed here. we should also consider banker's part. secondly, >> again i >>>> am >>>> to say that bank has full right to ask his customer, why he should >>>> require a >>>> check book. only for prestige or he has any use of it. if he or she >> avail >>>> check book facility, he has to maintain minimum balance in his >>>> account to continue this facility. some times we also make our >> blindness >>>> complicated. if any one show the law and rules, then being a banker, >> i am >>>> giving my ATM card and pin number to that blind customer, I will > also >>>> take >>>> him to the ATM machine, but, i will not assist him to read out the >> menus >>>> and >>>> commands on ATM. will he independently withdraw his money? if so, >> could >>>> anybody voluntarily come to have a practical session? condition is a >>>> person >>>> should be bona fied blind. RBI says that 33% of >>>> ATMs should be accessible to blind persons, and it is stated on the >> same >>>> circular, which all our friends have mentioned here. now as a branch >>>> manager, it does not come in my power to install such ATMs. only my >> head >>>> office can do that. now in writing, i can reply that customer: "I >> accept >>>> your application for ATM card. since, as per the RBI circular our >> branch >>>> does not have ATM accessible to blind person, and also in our city >> there >>>> is >>>> no ATM installed, which is accessible to the blind person, hence, >> your >>>> application is pending for consideration. as soon as. an accessible >> ATM >>>> will >>>> be installed, you will be facilitated ATM card. our hon'ble blind >>>> customer >>>> unable to operate ATM which exist in our branch, independently, >> further, >>>> this matter has >>>> been referred to our authorities." >>>> thanking you, >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "B. R. Nautial" <brnaut...@gmail.com> >>>> To: <accessindia@accessindia.org.in> >>>> Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 7:40 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking >>>> >>>> >>>>> no sir, its not a question of ego here. in my opinion, both the >> parties >>>>> are almost right on their places. generally, all these facilities >> are >>>>> quite risky for the blind, that's why, most of the bank manager of >>>>> various >>>>> banks are not even against the blind customers but don't want to >> give >>>>> all >>>>> these facilities to the them only because they know, >>>>> in case of any fraud with the blind customer, they may be > questioned >>>>> before the court and may be punished for their negligence. >>>>> In various banks, where the branch manager is flexible and > satisfied >>>>> with >>>>> your arguments or fully aware with the rules and regulations, they >> are >>>>> more sympathetic with the blind. They don't create such problems > to >> any >>>>> of the blind person. More or less, they are not our enemy so >>>>> the issue should be raised before the higher authorities with the >> help >>>>> of various NGO's. >>>>> >>>>> With Regards >>>>> B. R. Nautial >>>>> Mobile: +919915073368 >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Kamal Verma" <kamalve...@pnb.co.in> >>>>> To: <accessindia@accessindia.org.in> >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:26 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Dear Sir, >>>>>> >>>>>> The customer is trying to satisfy his ego. Otherwise, he should >> have >>>>>> produced NOC or any such endorsement from his parrents. The >> problems >>>>>> might have been solved. Details of this blind customer have not >> been >>>>>> discussed in the list. There are number of blind customers > availing >>>>>> ATM, >>>>>> cheque book and other facilities from PNB. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards. >>>>>> Kamal Verma >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Asudani, Rajesh" <rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in> >>>>>> To: <accessindia@accessindia.org.in> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:56 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Who is bloody branch manager to sit in judgment over rules >>>>>>> framed >>>>>>> by regulator? >>>>>>> If he/she has to question them, let him represent to central bank >> or >>>>>>> government, for the time, rules are there, he has to comply with >> them. >>>>>>> If we give in to approach of petty functionaries thwarting rules, >>>>>>> there >>>>>>> will be no rule of law in this country. >>>>>>> Moreover, why does anybody require banking facilities? So, there >> is no >>>>>>> rational behind this question. >>>>>>> And, about ATM, bank is not responsible anyway for misuse or > loss. >>>>>>> Check book is another matter, and I have time and again pointed >> out >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> lacunae in the policy pertaining to it. >>>>>>> So, we can not hold bankers denying it to fault. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to >> create >>>>>>> Him." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --Arthur C. Clarke >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (Rajesh Asudani) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Assistant General Manager, >>>>>>> Reserve Bank of India >>>>>>> Nagpur >>>>>>> 09420397185 >>>>>>> O: 0712 2806676 >>>>>>> Res: 0712 2591349 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in >>>>>>> [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of > Kamal >>>>>>> Verma >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:51 PM >>>>>>> To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Noone has to deform such a pioneer corporate like PNB. RBI framed >>>>>>> rules >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> circulars, but being a Branch Manager, it seems impractical to >> issue >>>>>>> ATM >>>>>>> card to the blind customers. Let me argue the matter with the >> blind >>>>>>> customer >>>>>>> who is in need of ATM card and cheque book. Why does he need ATM >> card >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> cheque book and how shall I issue? Let him convince me. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>>> Kamal Verma >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Mahesh Panicker" <maheshspanic...@gmail.com> >>>>>>> To: <accessindia@accessindia.org.in> >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:41 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> dear Mr. Verma. . >>>>>>>> surprised to know someone has something nice to say about PNB. I >>>>>>>> haven't find many other organizations as obnoxious as PNB is. I >> had a >>>>>>>> real struggle to get my ATM card from PNB. in fact, I'd > contacted >> the >>>>>>>> higher authorities as well. but at the end of the day, I had to >>>>>>>> complaint to the RBI, and also to the NHRC and the government of >>>>>>>> India >>>>>>>> ministry of finance to get my card. after all that, I got my > card >>>>>>>> after a good 7 months. recently too, I had a terrible time with >> the >>>>>>>> PNB, when I applied for a check book. as I already mentioned, >> this >>>>>>>> happened after I submitted the RBI circular on the rights of the >>>>>>>> disabled on banking facility. >>>>>>>> and then we all have the story of a visually challenged being >> asked >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> provide a NOC from the parents to avail an ATM card. have you >> heard >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> anything more obnoxious? >>>>>>>> banks in general, and PNB in particular have a horrible record >> when >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>> comes to acknowledging the rightful claims of the disabled. so > we >>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>> to take the struggle against such horrible institutional > nonsense >> to >>>>>>>> all possible levels including the media. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 5/24/10, Kamal Verma <kamalve...@pnb.co.in> wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hello all, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I am surprised to note various complaints against PNB in this >> list. >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>> availing all the banking facilities, such as cheque book, debit >>>>>>>>> card, >>>>>>>>> credit >>>>>>>>> card, internet banking, etc. PNB does not ignore the blind >>>>>>>>> community, >>>>>>>>> hence >>>>>>>>> if any problem occurs, it may be communicated to the higher >>>>>>>>> authorities >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> PNB with the name and designation of the concerned officer. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>>>>> Kamal Verma >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mahesh Panicker" >>>>>>>>> <maheshspanic...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> To: <accessindia@accessindia.org.in> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 8:39 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > banking is one area where there is a lot of discrimination >> against >>>>>>>>> > the >>>>>>>>> > visually challenged. opening an account itself isn't any >> easier, >>>>>>>>> > but >>>>>>>>> > ones you open an account, getting the common banking >> facilities >>>>>>>>> > like >>>>>>>>> > ATM cards and check book is an absolute nightmare.I've an >> account >>>>>>>>> > with >>>>>>>>> > the Punjab National Bank, and I had my struggle of my life to >> get >>>>>>>>> > my >>>>>>>>> > ATM card issued. it took me a good 7 month for the same to be >>>>>>>>> > done. >>>>>>>>> > the struggle for the check book was also on similar lines, > and >>>>>>>>> > although I've got the checkbook, it has come with a lot of >>>>>>>>> > conditions. >>>>>>>>> > most people on access india can tell you similar stories. I >>>>>>>>> > believe >>>>>>>>> > some of our own members have taken a lot of initiative in > this >>>>>>>>> > regard, >>>>>>>>> > and the 2008 RBI order is an achievement because of such >>>>>>>>> > initiatives. >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > On 5/23/10, BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA <bsvermad...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > > blind persons should organize and conduct an agitation >> before >>>>>>>>> > > the >>>>>>>>> banking >>>>>>>>> > > division and finance ministry. this is the only solution. >>>>>>>>> > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "rahul cherian" >>>>>>>>> > > <rahul.cher...@inclusiveplanet.com> >>>>>>>>> > > To: <accessindia@accessindia.org.in> >>>>>>>>> > > Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 12:47 PM >>>>>>>>> > > Subject: [AI] Difficulties in Banking >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > > Folks, >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > I have been asked to prepare a comprehensive note on the >>>>>>>>> > > > issues >>>>>>>>> > > > that >>>>>>>>> > > persons >>>>>>>>> > > > with visual impairment face with banking in India, >> especially >>>>>>>>> > > > in >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> leading >>>>>>>>> > > > banks such as ICICI, HDFC and SBI, along with possible >>>>>>>>> > > > solutions. >>>>>>>>> > > > This >>>>>>>>> > > note >>>>>>>>> > > > has been asked for by some senior people I know > personally >> in >>>>>>>>> > > > these >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> banks. >>>>>>>>> > > > If anyone would like to help me prepare this note do let >> me >>>>>>>>> > > > know >>>>>>>>> > > > at >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> > > > earliest. If anyone has the details of any such note > which >> has >>>>>>>>> > > > been >>>>>>>>> > > prepared >>>>>>>>> > > > earlier do forward that to me. >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > Best regards, >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > Rahul Cherian >>>>>>>>> > > > Inclusive Planet >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > On 23 May 2010 12:39, Srinivasu Chakravarthula >>>>>>>>> > > <sriniv...@srinivasu.org>wrote: >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > Hi Dinesh, >>>>>>>>> > > > > Can you provide us with little more details about your >>>>>>>>> > > > > problem >>>>>>>>> > > > > with >>>>>>>>> > > > > Yahoo! Messenger so as to help you better? >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > Regards, >>>>>>>>> > > > > Srinivasu >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > On 5/23/10, dinesh shukla <dineshshukla2...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> > > > > wrote: >>>>>>>>> > > > > > dear friends I am not able to chatte with the > help >> of >>>>>>>>> > > > > > Yahoo >>>>>>>>> > > > > massenger. >>>>>>>>> > > > > > please help me to do the same telling me the steps. >>>>>>>>> > > > > > Dinesh >>>>>>>>> > > Shukla. >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > To unsubscribe send a message to > >>>>>>>>> > > accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.inwith >>>>>>>>> > > > > > the subject unsubscribe. >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > To change your subscription to digest mode or make > any >>>>>>>>> > > > > > other >>>>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> changes, >>>>>>>>> > > > > please >>>>>>>>> > > > > > visit the list home page at >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> >> > http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.i >> n >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > -- >>>>>>>>> > > > > Sent from my mobile device >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > Best regards, >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > Srinivasu Chakravarthula >>>>>>>>> > > > > Mobile: +91 990 081 0881 >>>>>>>>> > > > > Website: http://www.srinivasu.org >>>>>>>>> > > > > Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/sriniworld/ >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > To unsubscribe send a message to >>>>>>>>> > > accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.inwith the subject >>>>>>>>> > > unsubscribe. >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > To change your subscription to digest mode or make any >> other >>>>>>>>> changes, >>>>>>>>> > > > > please visit the list home page at >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> >> > http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.i >> n >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > To unsubscribe send a message to >>>>>>>>> > > accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject >>>>>>>>> > > unsubscribe. >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > To change your subscription to digest mode or make any >> other >>>>>>>>> > > > changes, >>>>>>>>> > > please visit the list home page at >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> >> > http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.i >> n >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > To unsubscribe send a message to >>>>>>>>> > > accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject >>>>>>>>> > > unsubscribe. >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > To change your subscription to digest mode or make any > other >>>>>>>>> > > changes, >>>>>>>>> please >>>>>>>>> > > visit the list home page at >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> >> > http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.i >> n >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > -- >>>>>>>>> > Mahesh S. 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To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.i n To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
