On 11/2/14, Amiyo Biswas <amiyo.bis...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't think students under the tutelege of low-paid and heavily burdened
> special educators can be as successful as Bhabya or Rahul. On the other
> hand, special schools are not heavens either. I read in a special school. We
>
> did not have teachers for Braille or mobility. Luckily we had two very good
>
> science and math teachers who took every step to teach us in these
> subjects.
>
I completely forgot to add another point, thanks for writing this
mail, which reminded me of that.
I am completely against the idea of having inclusive education with
home tutors, or shadow teachers, or stuff like that. You do not
require that, and if you do have 'shadow' teachers, you will not be
able to enjoy a bit of your school life.
Also, there is no real need for a shadow teacher, what extra do they
provide that you otherwise cannot get?
So, if your comparing inclusive education with a shadow teacher versus
special education, then go for special education, instead of burdening
yourself with a shadow teacher.
>
> With best regards,
> Amiyo Biswas
> Cell: +91-9433464329
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "sanjay" <sanjaylpra...@yahoo.co.in>
> To: "AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issuesconcerning
> thedisabled." <accessindia@accessindia.org.in>
> Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2014 2:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [AI] Regarding Inclusive Education and Special School.
>
>
>> First of all, I don't believe that blind people who study in integrated
>> schools will  possess extraordinary skils of mingling with sighted folks.
>>
>> I am also a product of special school. Forget about other books, we were
>> not even provided sylabus books properly. We were introduced to English
>> alphabets in 5th Std. Blaming my Kannada  medium school for not teaching
>> English is unfair on my part.  This was the situation in 1980's.    In my
>>
>> neighbourhood, I had many sighted friends and I was even atending a
>> tuition classss with my sighted peers during weekends.
>> AT certain point of time we have to quit our native place for job/training
>>
>> purposes.  When you go to new place, whether you are a sighted or blind we
>>
>> all have to face initial ods.
>> I have seen many blind folks who  have no  business with any sighted
>> person but are living happily without mourning for sighted person(s)
>> assistance/friendship.  Perhaps, it is their 100% interdependent nature
>> which gave them this level of joy and confidence.  I said interdependent
>> nature because 100% independence is a myth.   It is because of such
>> people, many inventions and innovations of products have been taking place
>>
>> relentlessly.
>>
>> Today's relations are based on  common interest and  reciprocity.  Whether
>>
>> you are sighted or blind, as long as you have something to offer or share,
>>
>> you can always have good friends and relatives.  As we mature from
>> childhood to adulthood, the dynamics of relations too change.
>> I have also seen blind people who could not have been educated well
>> without special schools.
>> I do support the view that   primary education should be given in special
>>
>> schools. Then let the children and parents decide what suits them best.
>> Please don't go by the myth that  integrated schools  are the only way to
>>
>> mainstream disabled people in the normal society.  Such concepts hold
>> little value in highly individualised societies of today;  and,  this is
>> the false propaganda by some vested interests.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Amiyo Biswas" <amiyo.bis...@gmail.com>
>> To: "AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issuesconcerning
>>
>> thedisabled." <accessindia@accessindia.org.in>
>> Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2014 8:46 AM
>> Subject: Re: [AI] Regarding Inclusive Education and Special School.
>>
>>
>>>I am not against inclusive education for those who can manage it,
>>>particularly with the support of parents. The old integrated education
>>>programme was the best choice perhaps. I want that the special schools
>>>should be developed with good teachers and resources. In West Bengal
>>>special schools are under the ministry of mass education whose primary
>>>responsibility is to promote mass literacy. The teachers are paid less
>>>than the teachers at normal schools. The most pathetic situation is that
>>>the special educators are paid hardly Rs. 8,000 or something like that
>>>when they have to bear greater responsibility than regular teachers.
>>>
>>> Parents want to send their children to normal schools because they gain
>>> financially from it for the incentive. They refuse to talk to the
>>> representatives of the special schools because of this incentive.
>>> Organisations should take up the issue as they did for the copyright act
>>>
>>> or the rpd bill.
>>>
>>> With best regards,
>>> Amiyo Biswas
>>> Cell: +91-9433464329
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Vidhya Y" <vidhya....@gmail.com>
>>> To: "AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>>> concerningthe disabled." <accessindia@accessindia.org.in>
>>> Sent: Friday, October 31, 2014 2:24 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Regarding Inclusive Education and Special School.
>>>
>>>
>>>>I still believe that for primary level atleast till 5th grade, Special
>>>> school helps for all
>>>> Blind children.
>>>> I would like to share why I think so,
>>>> till 7th grade I studied in a blind school (in a hostel).
>>>> it was very difficult for my parents to leave me their but that was
>>>> the only alternative.
>>>> I know that the quality of education is not good at the blind schools
>>>> because I had to learn all concepts like algebra and geometry and
>>>> also many concepts in science in the integrated school for my 8th
>>>> grade from scratch(as my friends had already learnt it before 7th
>>>> grade)
>>>> and they had not taught these concepts in blind school.
>>>> for a year or so it was very difficult and later I managed it very
>>>> well.
>>>> I used to stay in a village and there are no good schools near buy.
>>>> my parents have given me all the facilities but english is not what
>>>> they have studied so converting books would not be possible at any
>>>> cost.
>>>> as a girl, there is a question of sending me to any institute to take
>>>> training in computer math etc on my own and the people from  the
>>>> institute  would not come because I stay too far from  city.
>>>> and these institutes are so far from the village.
>>>> in the village where all students in general are not getting proper
>>>> education in computer, english, what about the blind children
>>>> especially at the primary level?
>>>> I studied in integrated school from 8th grade because I could manage
>>>> on my own  at that level with a little help.
>>>> but how could I do that from primary level?
>>>> I have very supportive family and tutors so I have managed to study
>>>> math and programming even in the degree level and now I am working as
>>>> research assistant (thinking of doing PHD in computer science ).
>>>> and there are other blind children especially girls who are  not even
>>>> cared by their families(I am telling this because I know many of
>>>> them),
>>>> same flexibility in mingling with other children and also in mobility
>>>> cannot be expected like boys for girls as all of you know that no
>>>> place is safe.
>>>> and if their are no special schools too, how to educate blind girls
>>>> when  female education in general is too bad in our country?
>>>> atleast through special schools people will learn few basic
>>>> educational skills and survival skills right?
>>>> or else  how to promote literacy among all blind girls?
>>>> this is my personal opineon,
>>>> I know  that  there are many exceptional cases with well educational
>>>> and financially stable parents who can take care of blind children.
>>>> so please don't take this opinion too seriously.
>>>>
>>>> On 10/30/14, Parakh Rajesh <rajeshparak...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> the real essence of inclusive education is integration of differently
>>>>> abled
>>>>>
>>>>> to main stream where the notions and hesitance of the sited or normal
>>>>> society is reduced to a level where inclusion of these children
>>>>> becomes
>>>>> smoother. and moreover the feeling of isolation amongst the
>>>>> differently
>>>>> abled population may fade away during the course of time which in turn
>>>>> increases their confidence level. coming to resources and facilities
>>>>> in
>>>>> rural areas or lesser priviliged society the issues are real complex
>>>>> in
>>>>> country like ours. here stronger, pragmatic laws and stiff
>>>>> accountability
>>>>> may help in long term perspective.
>>>>> regards,
>>>>> rajesh parakh
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Bhavya shah" <bhavya.shah...@gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>>>>> concerningthe disabled." <accessindia@accessindia.org.in>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2014 4:51 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Regarding Inclusive Education and Special School.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> 'great bhavya, in todays context the need is to use technology in
>>>>>> best
>>>>>> possible ways. further there is a need to create strong laws for
>>>>>> normal schools that they do not refuse any differently abled child
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> admission and provide atleast minimum standard of technology for the
>>>>>> children to achieve education. i think strong rules will surely help
>>>>>> children from rural areas also.'
>>>>>> I think there is a law that mainstream schools cannot refuse to give
>>>>>> admission to a visually impaired child, I might be wrong here. This
>>>>>> wasn't in my case, because I have been studying in my school from
>>>>>> when
>>>>>> I was completely sighted to now, where I am completely blind.
>>>>>> In a poor country as India, perhaps the school may not give
>>>>>> technological solutions to the children, but certainly, they should
>>>>>> allow the use of laptops and other such solutions. I am not sure
>>>>>> about
>>>>>> rural areas, I have seen that some NGOs with lots and lots of
>>>>>> teachers, have failed to spread awareness, and sadly parents of other
>>>>>> blind children aske me whether I am able to use a computer or not,
>>>>>> whether I will drop maths or not, because in those NGOs (I won't take
>>>>>> their names) only and only Braille is taught, and just nothing else.
>>>>>> If NGOs themselves become more aware, then perhaps we can talk about
>>>>>> the adoption of inclusive education in rural areas.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/30/14, Ketan Kothari <muktake...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Dear Bhavya,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am a student from a "special school".  I have also been a student
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> a regular "not normal" school but I personally feel that education
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> important to begin with and then the philosophical debate of
>>>>>>> "special"
>>>>>>> versus "inclusive" for both have their advantages and disadvantages.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In a case as yours, at least you have parents who have computer at
>>>>>>> home.  How many blind people or their parents in the country have
>>>>>>> it?
>>>>>>> What about regional languages?  And yes, the biggest asset that you
>>>>>>> have is your mother who is painstakingly doing the conversion etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am not advocating special school but I am of the opinion that a
>>>>>>> child must be educated in the best scenario that helps him.  I have
>>>>>>> been to the villages where both parents have to go to NREGS work and
>>>>>>> the child goes to a regular school with little or no attention.
>>>>>>> This
>>>>>>> certainly hampers his education and the learning outcomes will
>>>>>>> definitely suffer.  In the best available circumstances, children
>>>>>>> must
>>>>>>> be in an inclusive environment but e-text can never replace Braille
>>>>>>> till we have mobile sets that are easily accessible, fast to operate
>>>>>>> and can maintain privacy (which present sets do not allow I am
>>>>>>> afraid), and yes, Braille is not a language but a script.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Having said all this, I really admire your courage and wisdom at
>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>> age and for this I would certainly salute your parents.  Their
>>>>>>> perseverance is what led you where you are.  I am sure you will go
>>>>>>> miles in the future.  Wish you best of luck, lad and may you climb
>>>>>>> heights unthinkable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> With best wishes,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ketan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10/30/14, Amiyo Biswas <amiyo.bis...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Dear Friends,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Recently I met some of my teacher friends at a meeting of Blind
>>>>>>>> Persons'
>>>>>>>> Association. We were sharing our experiences in our respective
>>>>>>>> fields.
>>>>>>>> We
>>>>>>>> were all surprised to learn that special schools are not getting
>>>>>>>> students
>>>>>>>> after inclusive education was introduced. There are hardly a handful
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> special schools for us. If these schools with a very low roll
>>>>>>>> strength
>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>> not get sufficient students, what will be the lot of the next
>>>>>>>> generation
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> visually impaired students?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Inclusive Education programme is in effect for some years. We
>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>> review
>>>>>>>> the situation now. As a project it sounds very good. Disabled
>>>>>>>> children
>>>>>>>> read
>>>>>>>> at normal schools and ideally it helps mainstreaming them into the
>>>>>>>> society.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A cursory glance at a classroom will reveal the real situation. In
>>>>>>>> West
>>>>>>>> Bengal, where I live in, the normal student-teacher ratio is about
>>>>>>>> 1-100
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> many cases. It is even worse at the primary schools. Moreover, the
>>>>>>>> primary
>>>>>>>> school teachers have to perform various duties during census and
>>>>>>>> election.
>>>>>>>> Besides, they have their daily chore of midday meal. Many of these
>>>>>>>> schools
>>>>>>>> do not have the necessary infrastructure for children with special
>>>>>>>> needs.
>>>>>>>> Accessible toilets are dreams when the normal children do not get
>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>> facilities in some cases.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There are Special Educators who are supposed to assist the children
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> special needs. A Special Educator has to cover about 30 schools in
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> month.
>>>>>>>> Is it possible for him or her to guide a disabled child by meeting
>>>>>>>> him
>>>>>>>> once
>>>>>>>> in a month? We cannot expect him that he will be efficient in
>>>>>>>> Braille,
>>>>>>>> sign
>>>>>>>> language and so on. They are paid very low (hardly Rs. 8,000 per
>>>>>>>> month)
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> appointed on a contract basis. They tend to quit their jobs
>>>>>>>> whenever
>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>> is an opportunity. Why should well-educated young people stick to
>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> job
>>>>>>>> for so humble a salary?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I shall not say that nothing good has come of it. Many disabled
>>>>>>>> children
>>>>>>>> have been enrolled into normal schools or Sarba Shiksha Abhijan. In
>>>>>>>> normal
>>>>>>>> schools there is no pass or fail. So visually challenged children
>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>> automatic promotion up to class VIII without ever learning Braille.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> heard of a mentally retarded child who goes to the exam and his
>>>>>>>> invigilator
>>>>>>>> writes his name, roll etc. on his answer paper and he gets
>>>>>>>> promoted.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is yet another benefit. Parents of the disabled children gain
>>>>>>>> financially from the scheme, around Rs. 4,500. The Special
>>>>>>>> Educators
>>>>>>>> earn
>>>>>>>> their living, whatever it is, from this scheme. But this is all at
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> cost
>>>>>>>> of education. When children with special needs require special
>>>>>>>> training,
>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>> are thrusting them into an atmosphere where they feel lonely and
>>>>>>>> isolated.
>>>>>>>> They memorise some rhymes and stories, but they seldom learn
>>>>>>>> arithmetic.
>>>>>>>> As
>>>>>>>> a result they grow up with an inferiority complex.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A severe consequence of the scheme is that since the parents earn
>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>> from this scheme, they do not send their children to special
>>>>>>>> schools.
>>>>>>>> Most
>>>>>>>> of the special schools cannot enrol their full strength.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I do not want to give up with Inclusive Education immediately. But
>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>> the following to make it more effective:
>>>>>>>> 1. There should be some financial incentive for the parents who
>>>>>>>> send
>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>> children to special schools
>>>>>>>> 2. The block-level social welfare officer should try to find a
>>>>>>>> special
>>>>>>>> school for a child with special needs and when no such facility is
>>>>>>>> available, only then the child should be enrolled in Inclusive
>>>>>>>> Education.
>>>>>>>> 3. Special Educators should be paid in line with the regular
>>>>>>>> teachers
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> all facilities.
>>>>>>>> 4. Braille books, Braille writing frames, Taylor frames and other
>>>>>>>> similar
>>>>>>>> items used by children with special needs should be available at
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> block
>>>>>>>> level.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I shall request all senior members to do something about it. We
>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>> write
>>>>>>>> to the ministers of Social Justice and Empowerment, Education and
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> PM
>>>>>>>> also. Activists like Mr. Kaul, Mr. Rumta or Dipendra should take
>>>>>>>> initiative
>>>>>>>> with our full support for any action.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> With best Regards,
>>>>>>>> Amiyo Biswas
>>>>>>>> Cell: +91-9433464329
>>>>>>>> Clean India Campaign: Let us also chip in!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Register at the dedicated AccessIndia list for discussing
>>>>>>>> accessibility
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> mobile phones / Tabs on:
>>>>>>>> http://mail.accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/mobile.accessindia_accessindia.org.in
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Search for old postings at:
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Disclaimer:
>>>>>>>> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the
>>>>>>>> thinking
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its
>>>>>>>> veracity;
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> mails
>>>>>>>> sent through this mailing list..
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Ketan Kothari
>>>>>>> Phone: [r] 24223281,
>>>>>>> Cell: 9987550614
>>>>>>> MSN ID: muktake...@hotmail.com
>>>>>>> Skype ID: Ketan3333
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Clean India Campaign: Let us also chip in!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Clean India Campaign: Let us also chip in!
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> of
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
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