Oh wow, I never heard of them and they are the "leading global technology integrator"...
-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ken Schaefer Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 8:54 PM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] All - OT (and drifting further away) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:ActiveDir- : [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joe : Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] All - OT (and drifting further away) : : I think as MS gets more and more complicated products : deeper in the field (SMS, MIIS, MOM, Active Directory, : ADFS, SUA, etc) they will have not much choice but to offer : more and better consulting to get it all configured : and running properly together. Not doing so means that : people will set it up and often it will be set up poorly : or outright wrong which makes MS look bad. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Perhaps this one of the reasons Avanade [1] exists... Cheers Ken [1] www.avanade.com -- www.adOpenStatic.com/cs/blogs/ken/ : Services is a great way to make money if you do a good job. If you do a : poor : job, it is a great way to piss customers off and lose money and people due : to issues and stress. : : : : -----Original Message----- : From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Al Mulnick : Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 4:08 PM : To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org : Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] All - OT (and drifting further away) : : ProServices at Microsoft is all about radical turns. Trust me :) : : You're concept of partners having more/less in-depth experience than : Microsoft is intriguing. I suppose that indicates that the Microsoft : consultants have a corporate sanctioned line back to the development team : (as opposed to making those relationships as best they can). Interesting : concept; I hope you're right. : : : SteveB absolutely has been consistent in saying that services (not just : MCS : anymore) is there as a value add. They're a software company first and : foremost. One of the great things about working there as a consultant, : I'm : sure. : : Getting partners to step up has more than the value of not having to : maintain headcount if you think about it. It has benefits that reach much : deeper than that. (I'm just pointing out the obvious). : : "If they are ramping up it's because they see a rise in the need of talent : in MCS at present, and demand from customers for more flesh in the game." : Hmmm.... : : : : : -----Original Message----- : From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kingslan, Rick T. : Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 3:36 PM : To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org : Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] All - OT (and drifting further away) : : All (not just Al), : : Microsoft has never really intended to be a true player in the Services : market - unless they are taking a radical turn in the past few months. : : They see services as a necessary tool for customers who require Microsoft : to : be involved in installs and the like. If it wasn't for some very major : players (Boeing, Ford, GE, etc... I suspect) Microsoft would not have : provided consulting at all. : : Ballmer sees this end of the market as an 'at-best' break even game. He : would much prefer to see the Partners step up to the plate, but there are : a : whole other set of problems with that, only a couple being depth of : experience and real commitment to the Microsoft Corporate vision, rather : than their own interests. : : Funny how that works. : : If they are ramping up it's because they see a rise in the need of talent : in : MCS at present, and demand from customers for more flesh in the game. : : joe, you might be talking to other folks than I am (I suspect that I have : more recent contact with what's going on in recruiting with MCS than you : do : right now.... ;o) but I don't get the impression that it's quite in the : upper thousands, but there is a big push on to hire a bunch by fiscal : year-end (June 30). : : -rtk : : > -----Original Message----- : > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:ActiveDir- : > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Al Mulnick : > Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 1:44 PM : > To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org : > Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] All - OT (and drifting further away) : > : > I, more than many, would really appreciate Microsoft building up its : > consulting ranks/headcount ;) : > : > Until then, I don't think they can be considered as a serious player : > in the consulting arena. I think they will never (by virtue of their : > culture) be able to be a consulting organization that deals with end : > to end consulting; they can't deal with hardware without really making : > other vendors/partners irate for example. Same goes for software that : > Microsoft doesn't make, networking equipment/OS, etc. : > : > Compuware? I suppose they could since they claim to deal with 90% of : > the fortunate 100. : > : > Question to ask is how they get on the top 5 list. Is it by revenue? : > Profits? Headcount? Did they make the list themselves? ?? : > : > : > : > : > : > : > -----Original Message----- : > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:ActiveDir- : > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joe : > Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 1:44 PM : > To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org : > Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] All : > : > I keep hearing rumours that MS is really going to be kicking its : > presence up in consulting and services by adding thousands (or tens of : > thousands) of analysts for it. : > : > Oh and I thought of another possible one though I don't know how big : > they are anymore... Compuware. : > : > : > : > -----Original Message----- : > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Al Mulnick : > Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 1:01 PM : > To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org : > Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] All : > : > Accenture? Compucom? CSC? : > : > I don't think MS would rank that high in the consulting arena. 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