Just curious - what's MONAD's goal supposed to be, other than having an acronym that sounds like a military facility?
-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joe Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:15 AM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Scripting/WMI/MONAD - was FSMO role transfer You know that the scriptomatic 2 HTA will create Perl script that does WMI right.... I am not a huge fan of WMI but there are times in the scripting world if you want to stick to pure script it is in the only way to do what you want and I will use it if I don't have time (or ability as in the case of mailbox reconnects or getting info on what DCs are being used by DSACCESS) to write native code to do what I need. If you have perl in your pocket there really is no need to learn vbscript other than enough to look at examples which doesn't take much learning. MONAD might be worth learning but I am still not sure about it. They have scaled it back so much from what they were initially talking about when I thought, that is seriously cool. I certainly don't feel that it is going to turn a bunch of people into scripters by just being released. The model will confuse the crap out of most people as it is even more involved than vbscript which people don't want to learn because it is too much like programming. I have made some recommendations to folks at MS all the way up to Iain McDonald (great guy) that all of the MS management tools should have a switch to output MONAD code so that someone could do something once in the GUI and get a MONAD script generated automatically that does the same thing. Then they can tweak that to do other things. It is the only way I visualize that MONAD will really take off like people seem to think it will, at least over and above perl and vbscript. In other words, I don't see anything there that will take someone who wasn't a scripter and wasn't thinking about being a scripter to become one. You will have the same bunch of yahoos writing scripts but they will be doing it in MONAD instead of vbscript or VB. It is sort of like .NET in general, it certainly didn't produce a whoosh of a zillion new coders. Some of the folks that were already writing in other languages adopted it, some, older school, steadfastly avoided it. Personally I might consider .NET for a web site, other than that, not really. If it becomes ubiquitous and MS actually starts coding low level system and kernel stuff in it I might start looking at it. As it stands right now I feel the same way that many of my friends do one of which has renamed .NET to .FAT which I think is pretty funny. He even told me if I started writing my tools in it he would refuse to use them. I expect there are others. Maybe MS needs to rename it because I know when I hear .NET I think fat and lazy. I don't know why, I just do. I have seen enough posts in the newsgroups of issues and limitations and don't feel the benefits outweigh them. joe -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Cliffe Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 5:42 PM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FSMO role transfer Well, I just think that most of the people in the command line and/or scripting "camp" like to encourage others to learn to use them simply because they feel it's to your benefit. I don't think they really like to promote the "you're not a real admin..." sentiment. Or at least I hope not :-) Right now in my org, I'm in the minority using the CLI. I just prefer working that way and don't knock my colleagues for their methods, but rather show them other ways to get at the info they need. CLI and scripting fosters your knowledge of what's happening in the background, helps you learn the product and truly is a great way to automate tasks! (if not THE way) For the longest time I've been meaning to learn VBscript, but haven't devoted enough time to go for it yet. From what I've seen so far, it scares me :-P but I still intend to give it a shot. I've been getting by with Perl and CMD shell for now (I came from a KSH/*nix background). Have you seen some of the sample command shell scripts Dean has put together? Or the stuff that Alain Lissoir can do with WMI? Wow! Anyway, this topic has drifted further now, but I'm going to resist the urge to change the subject line. The last time I did that, we had a little side bit just on the fact that the subject line changed! :-D -DaveC -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rocky Habeeb Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 5:18 PM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FSMO role transfer Susan, "THANK YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!! !!!!!!!!!!!" There are a >LOT< of people on this list that do not believe that real Admins use the GUI. Some believe that you're not a real Admin if you do. I do. I have to. I can't allocate time to learn scripting right now because I'm overworked as is. I'll just leave it at that. RH ______________________________________________ -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP] Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 4:09 PM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] FSMO role transfer <stupid question alert> If the task is that trivial If the benefit is so great Why isn't it part of the AD snap ins as a one button task? <sincerely, who needs scripting when you can ask for a gui/wizard or button instead> David Adner wrote: > I'm not debating the effort it takes to make the change. I'm saying I don't > see the point in devoting whatever amount of effort it takes for > something that's going to provide benefit only, IMO, an extremely rare > case. And if that case happened, the corrective action is also a > trivial process. And again, I'm not saying I don't see your point; I just don't agree with it. > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bahta >> Nathaniel V Contractor NASIC/SCNA >> Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 12:32 PM >> To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org >> Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FSMO role transfer >> >> That process is trivial in itself. It does not take much to transfer >> the roles before you conduct maintenance on a server. Why not do it? >> It will save you cleaning up metadata after you seize a role of a >> failed operations master. Sounds like a stitch in nine saves time >> concept to me. I do not intend on taking every proactive measure >> either, but when it comes to the small and quickly implemented >> measures that could save plenty of time, I try to utilize all of them >> available. >> >> Is that agreeable? >> >> Nathaniel Vincent Bahta >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Adner >> Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 1:24 PM >> To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org >> Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FSMO role transfer >> >> Any proper maintenance plan has a backout plan and a recovery plan, >> so I am preparing for the possibility of an unexpected problem. If >> I'm pulled into a dark room because something goes wrong then I >> should feel confident I'll leave that room with my hide mostly >> intact; it may be slightly singed, but I can live with that. If >> management isn't the reasonable type then that's a different issue. >> >> If your philosophy is to take every proactive measure ahead of time >> possible, then that's fine. I just don't see the point with regards >> to FSMO roles when the recovery action is a relatively trivial >> process. This is obviously a matter of personal preference so I'm >> not trying to convince others to change. I just found the concept >> unusual so I thought I'd share. >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 10:16 AM >>> To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org >>> Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FSMO role transfer >>> >>> I would rather, as stated earlier, assess the risk and then act >>> appropriately. The original poster never defined 'maintenance' in >>> detail. >>> >>> The original post did state that the box would be down for ~2 hours >>> for maintenance. This is clearly more than a patch and a >>> >> reboot. We've >> >>> been over that scenario and concluded that it carries a lesser risk. >>> >>> As joe said, if the maintenance all goes badly wrong, do >>> >> you want to >> >>> be pulled into a dark room and questioned as to why you did not >>> prepare for that eventuality? >>> >>> >>> neil >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan >>> Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP] >>> Sent: 30 November 2005 15:29 >>> To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org >>> Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] FSMO role transfer >>> >>> Okay define maintenance please? >>> >>> Patching? >>> Service Pack? >>> Applying QFEs? >>> Performance tuning? >>> What? >>> >>> Is there a level of maintenance that would cause you to move FSMO's >>> and not? >>> >>> Like for example, if I'm patching, I've tested the patch, I'm >>> reasonably expecting a favorable outcome otherwise I wouldn't be >>> deploying, I have a backup. >>> >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >>> >>> >>>> I think we've missed the essence of the original post :) >>>> >>> The DCs are >>> >>>> not just being rebooted, they are being 'maintained' and >>>> >>> will be down >>> >>>> for ~ 2 hours. That means to me, that either a s/w or h/w >>>> >> change is >> >>>> going to occur which could go horribly wrong. Faced with this >>>> situation, I would definitely transfer the roles. >>>> If the DC were merely being rebooted and nothing else is >>>> >>> scheduled to >>> >>>> occur, I would not transfer roles. >>>> The above 2 scenarios are very different - if one were to >>>> >> perform a >> >>>> risk analysis the actions taken to mitigate those risks would be >>>> suitably different. >>>> neil >>>> >>>> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - >> >>>> -- >>>> *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of >>>> >>> *David Adner >>> >>>> *Sent:* 29 November 2005 23:26 >>>> *To:* ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org >>>> *Subject:* RE: [ActiveDir] FSMO role transfer >>>> >>>> I would only agree if you told me your DC's regularly >>>> >> fail to come >> >>>> back after a reboot. And if you did tell me that I'd have to say >>>> you're doing something wrong. >>>> I suppose I don't consider rebooting a DC to be quite the >>>> >> dangerous >> >>>> act as others do. To what degree is this taken? If it holds >>>> >>> a standard >>> >>> >>>> Primary zone do you transfer that role, too? If it's the >>>> >>> PDCE of the >>> >>>> forest root domain and you transfer the role, do you also >>>> >>> reconfigure >>> >>>> the new PDCE to manually synchronize time from an authoritative >>>> source? I mean, if we're going to work under the >>>> >> assumption that a >> >>>> reboot is a regularly catastrophic causing event then >>>> >> it's probably >> >>>> time to switch OS's. >>>> Is it possible something unexpectedly horrible can happen >>>> >>> as part of a >>> >>> >>>> reboot? Sure. But it better be the exception. And with >>>> >>> regards to FSMO >>> >>> >>>> roles, which, barring some specific technical requirement they be >>>> readily available, the temporary outage of them is typically a >>>> transparent event and shouldn't require added >>>> >>> administrative overhead >>> >>>> in transferring them back and forth. Accepting that a >>>> >> catastrophic >> >>>> event is an exception, then you follow your documented and tested >>>> activities to recover from that exception; ie: you seize >>>> >> the roles, >> >>>> restore from backup, etc. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ---------- >>> >>>> *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On >>>> >> Behalf Of *Rich >> >>>> Milburn >>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 29, 2005 4:26 PM >>>> *To:* ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org >>>> *Subject:* RE: [ActiveDir] FSMO role transfer >>>> >>>> Yeah but having "seize the FSMOs instead of moving >>>> >> them" as your >> >>>> fallback plan is like making sure you have a current backup in >>>> case "yanking the power cord instead of Start > Shutdown > >>>> Restart" causes file system corruption J >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> //------------------------------------------------------------ >>> ---------- >>> -/// >>> >>>> ///Rich Milburn/// >>>> ///MCSE, Microsoft MVP - Directory Services/// >>>> Sr Network Analyst, Field Platform Development >>>> Applebee's International, Inc.// >>>> //4551 W. 107th St// >>>> //Overland Park//, KS 66207// >>>> //913-967-2819// >>>> >>>> >>> //------------------------------------------------------------ >>> ---------- >>> // >>> >>>> ///"I love the smell of red herrings in the morning" - >>>> >>> anonymous// >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - >> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of >>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 29, 2005 11:56 AM >>>> *To:* ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org >>>> *Subject:* Re: [ActiveDir] FSMO role transfer >>>> >>>> If something went wrong you could still seize the FSMO >>>> >>> roles as an >>> >>>> option rather than doing a transfer. Of course the >>>> >>> procedures for >>> >>>> all of these for the 5 FSMOs should be documented just in case >>>> needed.. >>>> >>>> Chuck >>>> >>>> / >>>> >>>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ---------- >>> >>>> *-------APPLEBEE'S INTERNATIONAL, INC. CONFIDENTIALITY >>>> >>> NOTICE-------* >>> >>>> PRIVILEGED / CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION may be contained in this >>>> message or any attachments. This information is strictly >>>> confidential and may be subject to attorney-client >>>> >>> privilege. This >>> >>>> message is intended only for the use of the named >>>> >> addressee. If >> >>>> you are not the intended recipient of this message, >>>> >> unauthorized >> >>>> forwarding, printing, copying, distribution, or using such >>>> information is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. 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