As an intermediate vbscripter, I fully agree with this. I can write
some WMI and ADSI vbscript code off the top of my head, but I tend to
copy lots of snippets from other scripts (like
Set oFSO = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject")
And I rely on Visual Studio or VbsEdit or FrontPage (for HTAs) to
autocomplete oFSO. (i.e. oFSO.FileExists) (well not for FSO anymore, but
for lots of others...)
I installed Monad beta, and looked at it briefly, but I think I will
continue to use vbscript and WSH for a while because I just don't have
the time currently to dive into it. It's on my Cool Things To Learn
list though. So how could I be jump-started into using it? Give me
samples - lots of sample code - how do I do something I'm doing already,
but by using Monad? Having the GUI export the routine via Monad is an
excellent idea, 'cause I personally hate clicking Next.
Why do I like scripting?
1) it takes my finger off the Next buttons
2) it creates a reproducible way to perform a task without a document
describing how to click Next and what not to change
3) I'm lazy and would rather spend 4 hours and 45 minutes writing a
script to do 100 tasks in 15 minutes, than spend 5 hours doing the same
task 100 times.
4) if the same thing comes up again, next time it will take me 30
minutes to find the script I used, and 15 minutes to run it.
5) if it comes up again, I might be able to pawn the task off on someone
else - i.e. I'm no longer required to input those 100 accounts from the
spreadsheet, or whatever it is.
6) if I need to change something in the script, it's all right there, I
don't have to open the source and recompile.
If I knew some other language - i.e. something.NET - I might be more
excited about being able to do #6 in C# or vb.NET in Monad, because I
know they can do a lot more than vbscript. But for now, I like my
vbscript and HTA files, despite all their shortcomings. NCR staging
people unofficially told me last week that my latest XP desktop build
(lots of scripting to configure the OS and software) is the easiest and
most automated install they do (and there are a lot of others there).
So my efforts are paying off now :)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rich Milburn
MCSE, Microsoft MVP - Directory Services
Sr Network Analyst, Field Platform Development
Applebee's International, Inc.
4551 W. 107th St
Overland Park, KS 66207
913-967-2819
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"I love the smell of red herrings in the morning" - anonymous
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joe
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 8:52 AM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] password changer
I won't take credit, I am sure others came up with a similar idea, I
just
happened to have met Iain and he told me to email him (he wanted a link
to
my website) and I did and that is one of the other things I mentioned.
If
you don't know of Iain you should. He is a great guy, very cool, and
quite
important to what MS does in our world. The best part from my viewpoint
is
that he is a realist who knows how to dream.
http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=16311
http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=107649
>> Hi, I'm joe, I guess we haven't met. For this exercise you may call
me
>> the choir.
> I guess you get me wrong. I'm not saying that every admin IS scripter.
> I'm saying that (ok, almost) every admin really SHOULD be a scripter.
That is exactly what I have been saying on this list for several years
now.
Check out the archives for my posts on scripting and how critical I
think it
is. If you don't script, there isn't much that sets you apart from the
other
folks that can move a mouse. But more importantly, you aren't working as
efficiently as you could be. I ran AD ops for a Fortune 5 company with 2
other analysts and a manager with Admin rights to the 400 DCs across the
world. No one else had rights to those DCs. Couldn't have done it
without
scripting. It is absolutely impossible to do that much work with the GUI
and
3 people. We were so efficient that we spent most of our time working on
other stuff for other people such as consulting to other groups or being
loaned to other groups to integrate their apps.
> people will start to see huge benefits of Monad as an all-in-one
automation tool
I think we are still a ways from this. I don't see this in the Longhorn
time
frame. I see parts of it but I see us using a variety of tools for quite
a
while. The original Monad demo we got as MVPs a couple of years ago was
considerably more revved up than what we have heard in the last year as
the
real world impacted what was being done versus having a bunch of folks
sitting around a table saying we can do this and we can do that, etc. I
think long term, it should get there unless MS changes directions again.
If
you look around you will see examples of various things through the
years
that were half or less implemented that were to be great but were
dropped
like a hot rock. Thankfully right now there is an understanding and push
that we need command line capability. I would like to think that this
new
thrust will last forever but I am wed to the idea, I am certainly not
throwing away my compilers... I am also not jumping whole hog (or really
too
much at all) into .NET. Monad's future rests in the Monad team
continuing to
exist, .NET continuing to exist, and the goal of making everything work
from
the command line that works from the GUI. As someone who has navigated
the
minefield of the MS System Management APIs for 10 or so years, I have
high
hopes but don't truly expect to have to give up compiled code. Things
like
WBEM/WMI were supposed to be THE answer and MS promised a world of full
easy
management and automation with WMI.
Implementation for many things through WMI absolutely sucked though as
it
hit the real world. Look at how bad the Exchange WMI interfaces are.
Whose
to say the Monad implementations for those things will be any better?
Personally my expectations aren't that high for the Exchange management
stuff though I truly hope to be surprised because managing Exchange now
certainly isn't anything I would consider an Enterprise experience. In a
large environment, you need some really good people to figure out how to
manage it other than the clicking on this or that button in ESM or ADUC.
I
would love to see the only interfaces available to the Exchange
management
tools that MS writes is the MONAD backend. I really don't expect it
though.
They have too much code and too many tools using the older 5.5
mechanisms
still and they work (better than the interfaces they exposed to us for
E2K+).
I don't mean to sound cynical but I have had a long history working with
the
programmatic interfaces MS exposes. They all come out with great dreams
and
propaganda and then something drops. They aren't the focus anymore and
the
people who fully believed in doing a great job get kicked to something
else
and things start falling overboard. I do have high hopes though that
this
time, it won't happen. I recently saw an article or posting about
concern
that the security push may be lessening again because MS has bitten onto
a
bumper of a different passing car and talking about Web services again a
lot. Whatever the result, I think MS mostly improves over the years,
just
not always as much as they could or definitely not as much as they said.
It
is hard not to believe they will do something amazing when you go to the
shows where they show how cool new tech is. You go to enough of them
though
and then see the actual launch of the product you tend to temper
everything
you hear. No one is directly knowingly lying to you. The
analysts/engineers
working on the stuff are all just as excited or more excited and have
great
fervor. They just don't make the decisions.
joe
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alexander
Suhovey
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 1:17 AM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] password changer
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:ActiveDir-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Crawford, Scott
> Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 11:40 PM
> To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
> Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] password changer
>
> RE: "...have all GUI tools output MONAD output for every operation..."
>
> Whats the current 'feel' for the likelihood of this happening?
>
I've heard in one of Jeffrey Snover's (Monad architect) casts that they
will
have this feature like "Tell me in Monad what just happened" button in
GUIs
that will produce Monad code. Now we know who's idea it was :-) Thanks
joe.
Also from the Monad Wiki [1]:
"The next generation of Admin GUIs will be written as MMC Snap-ins
layered
on top of MSH. This means that anything you can do from the GUI, you'll
also
be able to do from the CLI."
[1] http://channel9.msdn.com/wiki/default.aspx/Channel9.MSHWiki
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joe
> Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 1:51 PM
> To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
> Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] password changer
>
[..]
>
> Hi, I'm joe, I guess we haven't met. For this exercise you may call me
> the choir.
I guess you get me wrong. I'm not saying that every admin IS scripter.
I'm
saying that (ok, almost) every admin really SHOULD be a scripter.
> It is more geared towards existing
> scripters or programmers.
Can't disagree with that. Maybe it was a bad wording to say _enforce_
but
what I was really saying is as people will start to see huge benefits of
Monad as an all-in-one automation tool it will be obvious that it is one
of
things Windows admins really should get familiar with.
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