As an intermediate vbscripter, I fully agree with this. I can write some WMI and ADSI vbscript code off the top of my head, but I tend to copy lots of snippets from other scripts (like Set oFSO = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject") And I rely on Visual Studio or VbsEdit or FrontPage (for HTAs) to autocomplete oFSO. (i.e. oFSO.FileExists) (well not for FSO anymore, but for lots of others...) I installed Monad beta, and looked at it briefly, but I think I will continue to use vbscript and WSH for a while because I just don't have the time currently to dive into it. It's on my Cool Things To Learn list though. So how could I be jump-started into using it? Give me samples - lots of sample code - how do I do something I'm doing already, but by using Monad? Having the GUI export the routine via Monad is an excellent idea, 'cause I personally hate clicking Next.
Why do I like scripting? 1) it takes my finger off the Next buttons 2) it creates a reproducible way to perform a task without a document describing how to click Next and what not to change 3) I'm lazy and would rather spend 4 hours and 45 minutes writing a script to do 100 tasks in 15 minutes, than spend 5 hours doing the same task 100 times. 4) if the same thing comes up again, next time it will take me 30 minutes to find the script I used, and 15 minutes to run it. 5) if it comes up again, I might be able to pawn the task off on someone else - i.e. I'm no longer required to input those 100 accounts from the spreadsheet, or whatever it is. 6) if I need to change something in the script, it's all right there, I don't have to open the source and recompile. If I knew some other language - i.e. something.NET - I might be more excited about being able to do #6 in C# or vb.NET in Monad, because I know they can do a lot more than vbscript. But for now, I like my vbscript and HTA files, despite all their shortcomings. NCR staging people unofficially told me last week that my latest XP desktop build (lots of scripting to configure the OS and software) is the easiest and most automated install they do (and there are a lot of others there). So my efforts are paying off now :) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Rich Milburn MCSE, Microsoft MVP - Directory Services Sr Network Analyst, Field Platform Development Applebee's International, Inc. 4551 W. 107th St Overland Park, KS 66207 913-967-2819 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "I love the smell of red herrings in the morning" - anonymous -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joe Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 8:52 AM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] password changer I won't take credit, I am sure others came up with a similar idea, I just happened to have met Iain and he told me to email him (he wanted a link to my website) and I did and that is one of the other things I mentioned. If you don't know of Iain you should. He is a great guy, very cool, and quite important to what MS does in our world. The best part from my viewpoint is that he is a realist who knows how to dream. http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=16311 http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=107649 >> Hi, I'm joe, I guess we haven't met. For this exercise you may call me >> the choir. > I guess you get me wrong. I'm not saying that every admin IS scripter. > I'm saying that (ok, almost) every admin really SHOULD be a scripter. That is exactly what I have been saying on this list for several years now. Check out the archives for my posts on scripting and how critical I think it is. If you don't script, there isn't much that sets you apart from the other folks that can move a mouse. But more importantly, you aren't working as efficiently as you could be. I ran AD ops for a Fortune 5 company with 2 other analysts and a manager with Admin rights to the 400 DCs across the world. No one else had rights to those DCs. Couldn't have done it without scripting. It is absolutely impossible to do that much work with the GUI and 3 people. We were so efficient that we spent most of our time working on other stuff for other people such as consulting to other groups or being loaned to other groups to integrate their apps. > people will start to see huge benefits of Monad as an all-in-one automation tool I think we are still a ways from this. I don't see this in the Longhorn time frame. I see parts of it but I see us using a variety of tools for quite a while. The original Monad demo we got as MVPs a couple of years ago was considerably more revved up than what we have heard in the last year as the real world impacted what was being done versus having a bunch of folks sitting around a table saying we can do this and we can do that, etc. I think long term, it should get there unless MS changes directions again. If you look around you will see examples of various things through the years that were half or less implemented that were to be great but were dropped like a hot rock. Thankfully right now there is an understanding and push that we need command line capability. I would like to think that this new thrust will last forever but I am wed to the idea, I am certainly not throwing away my compilers... I am also not jumping whole hog (or really too much at all) into .NET. Monad's future rests in the Monad team continuing to exist, .NET continuing to exist, and the goal of making everything work from the command line that works from the GUI. As someone who has navigated the minefield of the MS System Management APIs for 10 or so years, I have high hopes but don't truly expect to have to give up compiled code. Things like WBEM/WMI were supposed to be THE answer and MS promised a world of full easy management and automation with WMI. Implementation for many things through WMI absolutely sucked though as it hit the real world. Look at how bad the Exchange WMI interfaces are. Whose to say the Monad implementations for those things will be any better? Personally my expectations aren't that high for the Exchange management stuff though I truly hope to be surprised because managing Exchange now certainly isn't anything I would consider an Enterprise experience. In a large environment, you need some really good people to figure out how to manage it other than the clicking on this or that button in ESM or ADUC. I would love to see the only interfaces available to the Exchange management tools that MS writes is the MONAD backend. I really don't expect it though. They have too much code and too many tools using the older 5.5 mechanisms still and they work (better than the interfaces they exposed to us for E2K+). I don't mean to sound cynical but I have had a long history working with the programmatic interfaces MS exposes. They all come out with great dreams and propaganda and then something drops. They aren't the focus anymore and the people who fully believed in doing a great job get kicked to something else and things start falling overboard. I do have high hopes though that this time, it won't happen. I recently saw an article or posting about concern that the security push may be lessening again because MS has bitten onto a bumper of a different passing car and talking about Web services again a lot. Whatever the result, I think MS mostly improves over the years, just not always as much as they could or definitely not as much as they said. It is hard not to believe they will do something amazing when you go to the shows where they show how cool new tech is. You go to enough of them though and then see the actual launch of the product you tend to temper everything you hear. No one is directly knowingly lying to you. The analysts/engineers working on the stuff are all just as excited or more excited and have great fervor. They just don't make the decisions. joe -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alexander Suhovey Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 1:17 AM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] password changer > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:ActiveDir- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Crawford, Scott > Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 11:40 PM > To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org > Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] password changer > > RE: "...have all GUI tools output MONAD output for every operation..." > > Whats the current 'feel' for the likelihood of this happening? > I've heard in one of Jeffrey Snover's (Monad architect) casts that they will have this feature like "Tell me in Monad what just happened" button in GUIs that will produce Monad code. Now we know who's idea it was :-) Thanks joe. Also from the Monad Wiki [1]: "The next generation of Admin GUIs will be written as MMC Snap-ins layered on top of MSH. This means that anything you can do from the GUI, you'll also be able to do from the CLI." [1] http://channel9.msdn.com/wiki/default.aspx/Channel9.MSHWiki > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joe > Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 1:51 PM > To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org > Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] password changer > [..] > > Hi, I'm joe, I guess we haven't met. For this exercise you may call me > the choir. I guess you get me wrong. I'm not saying that every admin IS scripter. I'm saying that (ok, almost) every admin really SHOULD be a scripter. > It is more geared towards existing > scripters or programmers. Can't disagree with that. Maybe it was a bad wording to say _enforce_ but what I was really saying is as people will start to see huge benefits of Monad as an all-in-one automation tool it will be obvious that it is one of things Windows admins really should get familiar with. List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ -------APPLEBEE'S INTERNATIONAL, INC. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE------- PRIVILEGED / CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION may be contained in this message or any attachments. This information is strictly confidential and may be subject to attorney-client privilege. This message is intended only for the use of the named addressee. 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