So did we, where I was at the time. Now I can't recall what the driving
factors were, but it was pre-SP2. There were enough to convince some
hard-core captains to do it, though, and that was a tough sell. With XP
SP2, Vista is a tough sell to people who believe everything they read
about Vista but haven't checked out for themselves. I thought it was
just kinda cool looking but not compelling, till I started digging deep
into it. That's when I saw a lot of "well it's about time they fixed
that" issues, and various things that for me, would be selling points on
their own merit. But alas, those around me who have not taken the time
to find out for themselves, get hung up on the reviews saying it takes a
Cray supercomputer to run it, all so you can get some eye candy that's
overrated at best. I'm not going to go into it all right now, but
depending on your environment, there are compelling reasons to get
familiar with Vista. With SP1, I expect it to be widely deployable (and
compelling to do so). And I would expect [1] SP1 in the mid-2007
Longhorn RTM time frame.
[1] I have no privileged knowledge about that, it's just a guess based
on the fact that the Vista/Longhorn code is closely related, the two
OS's are meant to go hand-in-hand, and W2K3 Server SP1 and XP SP2 were
closely related. In a way, some of the Vista code which is shared with
Longhorn is getting a longer beta run, and will likely be fixed in
Longhorn and the fixes will apply to Vista - especially as relates to
how the Vista client is used in conjunction with the server, including
admin tasks. Again, that is a guess, not inside info. I could be way
off.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rich Milburn
MCSE, Microsoft MVP - Directory Services
Sr Network Analyst, Field Platform Development
Applebee's International, Inc.
4551 W. 107th St
Overland Park, KS 66207
913-967-2819
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"I love the smell of red herrings in the morning" - anonymous
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Bradley,
CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP]
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 12:32 PM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] Vista GPO
Depends on what you define as compelling.
I killed off Win2k way before XP sp2 was released.
Todd Hofert wrote:
If I remember correctly, there were no real compelling reasons to go
to
XP until after SP2 was released.
Todd
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rich Milburn
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 10:48 AM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Vista GPO
Am I the only one who remembers the teeth-pulling necessary to get
people to make the move to XP? Or to Win2K? Both of which were a
fairly big leap. XP was seen as eye candy with very little benefit
over
Win2K (but with licensing and deployment and compatibility problems
that
could be avoided by staying "on a perfectly good platform"). I had to
write up several papers on what was different and better in XP than in
Win2K (not where I work now, just for the record...) I think in 2
years
we're going to see a similar situation. The more IT types dig into
Vista, and see solutions to problems that either have no solution in
XP,
or require workarounds and make-do's (is that a word?), the more
people
will start to see the point in upgrading. I think the same goes for
Longhorn. So... this is just my opinion, but I think that one would
be
remiss in not digging into Vista now to see if there's more than just
eye candy and extensive hardware requirements...
So far, in my experience, I've been pretty surprised at the things
that
will run on Vista. Conversely, there are a few things we have that
still do not work on XP. We use Win2K VMs for those handful of
things.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rich Milburn
MCSE, Microsoft MVP - Directory Services Sr Network Analyst, Field
Platform Development Applebee's International, Inc.
4551 W. 107th St
Overland Park, KS 66207
913-967-2819
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"I love the smell of red herrings in the morning" - anonymous
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan
Bradley,
CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP]
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 7:32 PM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] Vista GPO
(as a bystander here .. I personally like the point/counterpoints..
just
sometimes we need to realize that we lose ...what? About 60% of
communication via email? And adjust accordingly okay? Can we hug and
make up?)
Pogue's Posts - Technology - New York Times Blog:
http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2006/12/14/14pogue-email-2/
Granted I'm little... but are you guys really and truly rolling out
Vista in other than Lab settings anyway? I'm getting hit over the
head
on a daily basis by vendors are are saying "Wait".
My two benchmarks of when I can say I'm somewhat "business ready" on
Vista is when the ISA firewall client that supports Vista ships (it
did
earlier this week) and when Trend isn't offering up beta versions as
the
only ones that will run on Vista.
Are you guys really and truly rolling these suckers out on production
boxes?
Don't geeks adapt anyway? (We may not read... but we adapt right?)
This is slightly incorrect...but the fact is SQL 2005 express
officially
needs sp2 to run on Vista
http://money.cnn.com/2006/12/14/magazines/business2/microsoft_vista.biz2
/index.htm?cnn=yes
*Wait Until after Tax Time? *Note that Intuit's tax software divisions
are recommending that their users wait until after tax season to make
any move to Windows Vista. These notices are posted for both Lacerte
Professional Tax Software
<http://recp.proadvisors.intuit.com/ctt?kn=18&m=399604&r=MzE0NTkxNTExOQS
2&b=0&j=NzQzNjgzNDcS1&mt=1>
and ProSeries Professional Tax Software
<http://recp.proadvisors.intuit.com/ctt?kn=21&m=399604&r=MzE0NTkxNTExOQS
2&b=0&j=NzQzNjgzNDcS1&mt=1>.
*Prudence Suggested for QuickBooks Users Too.* Windows Vista holds
much
promise for significant improvements in security and functionality.
However, Intuit suggests the decision to upgrade to Windows Vista be
approached carefully, for two reasons:
* Potential reliability issues often associated with the initial
release of operating systems.
* Intuit will not be able to support QuickBooks 2006 and earlier
on
Windows Vista.
Laura A. Robinson wrote:
Deji, I've had enough of you attributing statements to me that I have
not made, and therefore I am finished with this conversation.
Laura
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of
*Akomolafe, Deji
*Sent:* Friday, December 15, 2006 4:44 PM
*To:* ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
*Subject:* RE: [ActiveDir] Vista GPO
Did I actually say that clueless folks are writing you checks? Or
are you projecting? That those who write you checks but
don't/can't/won't do things "the right way" (according to you)
are
clueless, and you don't like their checks?
Sincerely,
_____
(, / | /) /) /)
/---| (/_ ______ ___// _ // _
) / |_/(__(_) // (_(_)(/_(_(_/(__(/_
(_/ /)
(/
Microsoft MVP - Directory Services
www.akomolafe.com
<x-excid://32770000/uri:http://www.akomolafe.com> - we know IT
*-5.75, -3.23*
Do you now realize that Today is the Tomorrow you were worried
about Yesterday? -anon
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* Laura A. Robinson
*Sent:* Fri 12/15/2006 12:50 PM
*To:* ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
*Subject:* RE: [ActiveDir] Vista GPO
BTW, I would disagree with your assessment of Microsoft's
customer
base. I work in Microsoft's largest district, with our largest
customers, and I find them far from clueless. I also find very
few
clueless folks writing us checks that "add up to those billions
in
the vault".
Do I run into misinformed people? Absolutely. Clueless? Not
really. Well, not among my customers, anyway. :-)
Laura
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of
*Laura A. Robinson
*Sent:* Friday, December 15, 2006 2:26 PM
*To:* ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
*Subject:* RE: [ActiveDir] Vista GPO
And it's the clueful customers who (rightly) become angry
when
something in a product that exists purely for backward
compatibility opens a security hole. Now, I'm not saying that
all security holes are due to backward compatibility, and I'm
not saying that every bit of code that comes out of Redmond
is
perfect. However, I have said for years that many of the
things that people don't like about Microsoft's products are
the result of backward compatibility, not bad coding or a
lack
of consideration on the part of Microsoft's programmers. As
somebody else (Darren? Richard?) said, there is a point where
a line has to be drawn in the sand. I personally don't see
anything dictatorial about requiring a Vista+ machine to edit
*VISTA* policies. I mean, seriously, if you're writing Vista
GPOs, that would imply that you're using Vista machines, and
if you're using Vista machines, what is the issue with using
one of those Vista machines as your editing workstation? I
think that that *IS* a very pragmatic, realistic approach.
Sorry, I just don't follow your logic on this one.
That said, my opinions are purely my own, do not represent
those of my employer, are not intended to represent those
of my employer and for all I know, may even pi$$ off my
employer. :-)
Laura
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of
*Akomolafe, Deji
*Sent:* Friday, December 15, 2006 1:42 PM
*To:* ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
*Subject:* RE: [ActiveDir] Vista GPO
I wouldn't put it in those words. But, yeah, I would
expect Microsoft to be... shall we say...pragmatic,
realistic. Something like, "enable" its customers to run
their businesses. I mean, refrain from "dictating" its
wishes. You know? Because at the end of the day, it is
the
"clueless customers" that actually write the checks that
add up to those billions in the vault.
Sincerely,
_____
(, / | /) /) /)
/---| (/_ ______ ___// _ // _
) / |_/(__(_) // (_(_)(/_(_(_/(__(/_
(_/ /)
(/
Microsoft MVP - Directory Services
www.akomolafe.com
<x-excid://32770000/uri:http://www.akomolafe.com> - we
know IT
*-5.75, -3.23*
Do you now realize that Today is the Tomorrow you were
worried about Yesterday? -anon
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* Laura A. Robinson
*Sent:* Fri 12/15/2006 10:19 AM
*To:* ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
*Subject:* RE: [ActiveDir] Vista GPO
So Microsoft should encourage their bad practices?
Laura
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On
Behalf
Of *Akomolafe, Deji
*Sent:* Friday, December 15, 2006 12:39 PM
*To:* ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
*Subject:* RE: [ActiveDir] Vista GPO
>>> People don't seem to have a problem with that
concept when it comes to game consoles :)
Bad analogy. Go stand in the corner, no wii for you
:)
When people start running their businesses on game
consoles, then you can come back and compare. For
now,
it's just plain incomprehensible that you can't
manage
ADMX from anything but Vista. Yeah, ideally we would
want to encourage clients to NOT manage things
directly from servers, and to ensure that IF they are
going to introduce Vista, the IT folks' machines
should be doing the dog-fooding, but realistically,
the "ideal" is always the exception in this field.
Microsoft should know that. People will insist on
managing GPO directly from the DCs, best practices be
damned.
Sincerely,
_____
(, / | /) /) /)
/---| (/_ ______ ___// _ // _
) / |_/(__(_) // (_(_)(/_(_(_/(__(/_
(_/ /)
(/
Microsoft MVP - Directory Services
www.akomolafe.com
<x-excid://32770000/uri:http://www.akomolafe.com> -
we
know IT
*-5.75, -3.23*
Do you now realize that Today is the Tomorrow you
were
worried about Yesterday? -anon
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* Darren Mar-Elia
*Sent:* Fri 12/15/2006 9:18 AM
*To:* ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
*Subject:* RE: [ActiveDir] Vista GPO
I hear you Rich. I had a long discussion with someone
on the GP newsgroups
who thought that the fact that XP and 2003 couldn't
read Vista GP settings
was an abomination and a scandal of the highest order
and that MS should be
beaten for their insolence (I'm paraphrasing :-)).
But, yes, we should all
be used to the fact that sometimes, you have to adopt
the new stuff to get
the new toys. People don't seem to have a problem
with
that concept when it
comes to game consoles :)
Darren
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Rich Milburn
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 9:04 AM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Vista GPO
Sorry, I understand it's different, what I meant was
merely that we had
some growing pains like this when XP first came out.
Our practice then
became to use only XP desktops for GP management. I
think there's a
tendency to think this is such a terrible thing, this
backwards-incompatibility, and we might forget that
Vista is not new
with this, we had similar issues before. And who
remembers the
teeth-pulling to get people to move to Active
Directory??
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rich Milburn
MCSE, Microsoft MVP - Directory Services
Sr Network Analyst, Field Platform Development
Applebee's International, Inc.
4551 W. 107th St
Overland Park, KS 66207
913-967-2819
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"I love the smell of red herrings in the morning" -
anonymous
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Darren Mar-Elia
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 10:05 AM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Vista GPO
This is actually a little different because if you
view a GPO that was
created with Vista, using XP or 2003, none of the
ADMX
settings can
actually
be read at all, because they are a completely new
format that GPEditor
or
GPMC on those older platforms don't understand. In
fact, those XP or
2003
will happily copy up the ADMs into the Vista GPO like
they used to do,
and
you're back to each GPO storing ADMs in SYSVOL. What
I've been
recommending
to folks is that once you introduce Vista desktops
into your
environment,
use Vista for all your ongoing GP management. The
Vista ADMXs are a
superset
of the latest and greatest ADMs (i.e. they include
2003, XP and Vista
settings) so you can happily manage Vista and
non-Vista targeted GP
settings
from a Vista machine.
Darren
Darren Mar-Elia
CTO & Founder
www.sdmsoftware.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Rich Milburn
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 6:49 AM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Vista GPO
You may recall, there was a similar case when XP came
out too - if
memory serves, you had to manage XP GPO settings from
an XP box - if you
opened them on Win2K, there were problems (I can't
recall now exactly
what those problems were... it would corrupt the
policy? Lose the
settings?) anyway so there are tons more settings (+
side) and you have
to use Vista for now (- side, sorta). I wouldn't be
too surprised if
they fix that with the next server and XP SP... but I
haven't actually
heard that.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rich Milburn
MCSE, Microsoft MVP - Directory Services
Sr Network Analyst, Field Platform Development
Applebee's International, Inc.
4551 W. 107th St
Overland Park, KS 66207
913-967-2819
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"I love the smell of red herrings in the morning" -
anonymous
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Darren Mar-Elia
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 4:13 PM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Vista GPO
Vista introduces a new Admin Template format called
ADMX. These are
found on Vista in C:\windows\policydefinitions and,
unfortuately cannot
be consumed by earlier versions of Windows. That is
you must manage
Vista GP from Vista.
Darren
-----Original Message-----
From: "Za Vue" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Sent: 12/14/2006 1:18 PM
Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] Vista GPO
Sorry. Exactly what Ben wrote.
Thanks..
-Z.V.
WATSON, BEN wrote:
> Maybe he may be referring to the location of any
possible new ADM
files
> included with Vista.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Darren
Mar-Elia
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 10:34 AM
> To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
> Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Vista GPO
>
> What do you mean Za? I'm not familiar with any GPO
plug-in for Win2K3,
> unless you mean the LDIF files that are in
sources\adprep on the Vista
> CD?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Za Vue
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 9:57 AM
> To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
> Subject: [ActiveDir] Vista GPO
>
> Anyone know what and where the GPO plugin for
Win2003 on the Vista DVD
> is called and located?
>
> -Z.V.
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If you are a SBSer and you don't subscribe to the SBS Blog... man ...
I
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