..on Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 11:36:48AM +0200, adam hyde wrote: > hey, > > I do believe there is a lot wrong with copyright itself and that > copyright is a construct we can and should do without. (as a side note, > I see the GPL as a patch to copyright, as are all 'open' licenses, but > fundamentally we would be better if we did not have to patch a faulty > system - ie if we did without copyright all together).
It depends how you look at it. All a copyright license covers are the terms of copying and downstream distribution. If a license says "you're allowed to relicense, copy and claim full authorship for my work" it's still a license, just a very open and rather pointless one. Without copyright (as 'naturalised' from authorship by the Berne convention or otherwise) there would certainly be very little cultural production: we wouldn't have a history of art as made by artists, as work would be re-attributed at whim. Citation would be extremely difficult - thus the derivative work - and so it follows that concepts as posited by people, as objects of thought, would lose their vernacular, critical and cultural power. Copyright can be pro-culture - it's just that /most/ copyright is broken, perverted by the 'free' market - exploited to the contrary. > However, regardless of my beliefs, the position of saying copyright is > broken is more provocative and might encourage more people to think > about it than taking a position on the wording of legislation. It may do that, yep, as long as people are educated as to the options otherwise. As it stands I come across a lot of people that claim there is only Copyright (aka RIAA style) and Public Domain, which reflects a gross lack of education on the topic.. Cheers, Julian > > On Tue, 2009-07-14 at 11:28 +0200, Julian Oliver wrote: > > ..on Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 10:44:23PM +0200, adam hyde wrote: > > > hey > > > > > > on the copyright issue ... > > > > > > i think it would be a good opportunity to provoke people to think about > > > copyright - to release a statement way outside of the arguments of this > > > debate, and go for the throat. in my mind that is a statement outlining > > > that we think the current debate is ridiculous because copyright is > > > broken and useless. > > > > > > so, perhaps the position to take, and one that might provoke people to > > > think and might also catch some news-space, is to tell people that we > > > dont want copyright at all... > > > > Hrmm.. as you (very) well know there is nothing wrong with copyright in > > itself, > > in fact copyright can't be avoided. Since the 1886 Berne convention it's > > been a > > naturally assigned right at the point of creating something: you can't > > not-have-made something you've already made. It's the terms of which that > > are > > later defined and it's here that problems propogate.. > > > > There are socially destructive forms of copyright and socially creative > > forms of > > copyright. The GPL is very much a copyright license as are all the creative > > commons licenses (as you know), both of which were created to be productive > > at > > the user level. > > > > The difference between socially destructive copyright (no right to remix / > > no > > right to learn from / what you buy is not yours to share) and socially > > productive/creative copyright (right to remix, modify, distribute) needs to > > be > > emphasised. > > > > To these ends I think one of the terms that really needs to be squashed is > > 'CopyLeft'; it implies that Creative Commons and the GPL are somehow > > 'anti-copyright' which is far from the case. This confuses people greatly > > and > > only serves to undermine any real education on positive, albeit reformist, > > directions in policy that benefit the public in general. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Julian > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, 2009-07-12 at 14:46 +1200, Douglas Bagnall wrote: > > > > hello list. > > > > > > > > You have probably heard of fuss over "section 92a", a proposed amendment > > > > to copyright law that would allow for your internet connection to be cut > > > > when someone says you are using it piratically. It got passed as law, > > > > put on hold, thrown out, and is now perhaps fighting its way back. > > > > > > > > Throughout all of this ADA has had no position. It seems to me that we > > > > share considerable membership (that's you list subscribers) with the > > > > Creative Freedom Foundation who led the battle against section 92 -- but > > > > we probably also share members with APRA and SPADA who supported the > > > > proposal. So if we do take a position, it is not immediately clear what > > > > it should be. > > > > > > > > The CFF and its opponents are being terribly pragmatic and tactical in > > > > what they call for. They are fighting over what the actual law will look > > > > like, letter by letter. Personally I'm in favour of a far more anarchic > > > > situation than anything the CFF dares advocate. I understand their > > > > reasons, of course, but it makes me wonder: if ADA expresses an official > > > > opinion, should it be unashamedly fringe? Should put out press releases > > > > like they did manifestos 100 years ago? > > > > > > > > Probably nothing will come of this. I'm just curious as to whether ADA > > > > members want their trust to be making statements on stuff like this, and > > > > if so, what they want said. > > > > > > > > Douglas > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Ada_list mailing list > > > > [email protected] > > > > http://aotearoadigitalarts.org.nz/ > > > -- > > > Adam Hyde > > > Founder FLOSS Manuals > > > German mobile : + 49 15 2230 54563 > > > Email : [email protected] > > > irc: irc.freenode.net #flossmanuals > > > > > > "Free manuals for free software" > > > http://www.flossmanuals.net/about > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Ada_list mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > http://aotearoadigitalarts.org.nz/ > > > -- > Adam Hyde > Founder FLOSS Manuals > German mobile : + 49 15 2230 54563 > Email : [email protected] > irc: irc.freenode.net #flossmanuals > > "Free manuals for free software" > http://www.flossmanuals.net/about > > > _______________________________________________ > Ada_list mailing list > [email protected] > http://aotearoadigitalarts.org.nz/ -- Julian Oliver home: New Zealand based: Madrid, Spain currently: Madrid, Spain about: http://julianoliver.com _______________________________________________ Ada_list mailing list [email protected] http://aotearoadigitalarts.org.nz/
