On Tue, 2009-07-14 at 20:42 +0200, Julian Oliver wrote: > > > shall we open the floor to others? ;) > > Hehe, indeedy. > > I suppose most Ada'ers are sleeping around about now. >
hehe! see, thats the problem with email. half the people are asleep cause its winter, the others are running around outside in the sun we should have this discussion in a bar, then it would be much more fun. we could drink wine, i could set my hair on fire, you could break yer laptop... :D adam > Julian > > > > > > > As far as i see it, its hard to say copyright is pro-culture. You can > > > > say culture hasn't completely died under copyright. I would agree with > > > > this. But it hasn't helped. > > > > > > Copyright is just a concept, and there's nothing wrong with the concept in > > > itself IMHO.. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Julian > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Copyright can be pro-culture - it's just that /most/ copyright is > > > > > broken, > > > > > perverted by the 'free' market - exploited to the contrary. > > > > > > > > > > > However, regardless of my beliefs, the position of saying copyright > > > > > > is > > > > > > broken is more provocative and might encourage more people to think > > > > > > about it than taking a position on the wording of legislation. > > > > > > > > > > It may do that, yep, as long as people are educated as to the options > > > > > otherwise. > > > > > As it stands I come across a lot of people that claim there is only > > > > > Copyright > > > > > (aka RIAA style) and Public Domain, which reflects a gross lack of > > > > > education on > > > > > the topic.. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > > Julian > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 2009-07-14 at 11:28 +0200, Julian Oliver wrote: > > > > > > > ..on Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 10:44:23PM +0200, adam hyde wrote: > > > > > > > > hey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on the copyright issue ... > > > > > > > > rp > > > > > > > > i think it would be a good opportunity to provoke people to > > > > > > > > think about > > > > > > > > copyright - to release a statement way outside of the arguments > > > > > > > > of this > > > > > > > > debate, and go for the throat. in my mind that is a statement > > > > > > > > outlining > > > > > > > > that we think the current debate is ridiculous because > > > > > > > > copyright is > > > > > > > > broken and useless. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so, perhaps the position to take, and one that might provoke > > > > > > > > people to > > > > > > > > think and might also catch some news-space, is to tell people > > > > > > > > that we > > > > > > > > dont want copyright at all... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hrmm.. as you (very) well know there is nothing wrong with > > > > > > > copyright in itself, > > > > > > > in fact copyright can't be avoided. Since the 1886 Berne > > > > > > > convention it's been a > > > > > > > naturally assigned right at the point of creating something: you > > > > > > > can't > > > > > > > not-have-made something you've already made. It's the terms of > > > > > > > which that are > > > > > > > later defined and it's here that problems propogate.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are socially destructive forms of copyright and socially > > > > > > > creative forms of > > > > > > > copyright. The GPL is very much a copyright license as are all > > > > > > > the creative > > > > > > > commons licenses (as you know), both of which were created to be > > > > > > > productive at > > > > > > > the user level. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The difference between socially destructive copyright (no right > > > > > > > to remix / no > > > > > > > right to learn from / what you buy is not yours to share) and > > > > > > > socially > > > > > > > productive/creative copyright (right to remix, modify, > > > > > > > distribute) needs to be > > > > > > > emphasised. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To these ends I think one of the terms that really needs to be > > > > > > > squashed is > > > > > > > 'CopyLeft'; it implies that Creative Commons and the GPL are > > > > > > > somehow > > > > > > > 'anti-copyright' which is far from the case. This confuses people > > > > > > > greatly and > > > > > > > only serves to undermine any real education on positive, albeit > > > > > > > reformist, > > > > > > > directions in policy that benefit the public in general. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Julian > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, 2009-07-12 at 14:46 +1200, Douglas Bagnall wrote: > > > > > > > > > hello list. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have probably heard of fuss over "section 92a", a > > > > > > > > > proposed amendment > > > > > > > > > to copyright law that would allow for your internet > > > > > > > > > connection to be cut > > > > > > > > > when someone says you are using it piratically. It got > > > > > > > > > passed as law, > > > > > > > > > put on hold, thrown out, and is now perhaps fighting its way > > > > > > > > > back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Throughout all of this ADA has had no position. It seems to > > > > > > > > > me that we > > > > > > > > > share considerable membership (that's you list subscribers) > > > > > > > > > with the > > > > > > > > > Creative Freedom Foundation who led the battle against > > > > > > > > > section 92 -- but > > > > > > > > > we probably also share members with APRA and SPADA who > > > > > > > > > supported the > > > > > > > > > proposal. So if we do take a position, it is not immediately > > > > > > > > > clear what > > > > > > > > > it should be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The CFF and its opponents are being terribly pragmatic and > > > > > > > > > tactical in > > > > > > > > > what they call for. They are fighting over what the actual > > > > > > > > > law will look > > > > > > > > > like, letter by letter. Personally I'm in favour of a far > > > > > > > > > more anarchic > > > > > > > > > situation than anything the CFF dares advocate. I understand > > > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > > reasons, of course, but it makes me wonder: if ADA expresses > > > > > > > > > an official > > > > > > > > > opinion, should it be unashamedly fringe? Should put out > > > > > > > > > press releases > > > > > > > > > like they did manifestos 100 years ago? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Probably nothing will come of this. I'm just curious as to > > > > > > > > > whether ADA > > > > > > > > > members want their trust to be making statements on stuff > > > > > > > > > like this, and > > > > > > > > > if so, what they want said. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Douglas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > Ada_list mailing list > > > > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > http://aotearoadigitalarts.org.nz/ > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Adam Hyde > > > > > > > > Founder FLOSS Manuals > > > > > > > > German mobile : + 49 15 2230 54563 > > > > > > > > Email : [email protected] > > > > > > > > irc: irc.freenode.net #flossmanuals > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Free manuals for free software" > > > > > > > > http://www.flossmanuals.net/about > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Ada_list mailing list > > > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > http://aotearoadigitalarts.org.nz/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Adam Hyde > > > > > > Founder FLOSS Manuals > > > > > > German mobile : + 49 15 2230 54563 > > > > > > Email : [email protected] > > > > > > irc: irc.freenode.net #flossmanuals > > > > > > > > > > > > "Free manuals for free software" > > > > > > http://www.flossmanuals.net/about > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Ada_list mailing list > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > http://aotearoadigitalarts.org.nz/ > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Adam Hyde > > > > Founder FLOSS Manuals > > > > German mobile : + 49 15 2230 54563 > > > > Email : [email protected] > > > > irc: irc.freenode.net #flossmanuals > > > > > > > > "Free manuals for free software" > > > > http://www.flossmanuals.net/about > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Ada_list mailing list > > > > [email protected] > > > > http://aotearoadigitalarts.org.nz/ > > > > > -- > > Adam Hyde > > Founder FLOSS Manuals > > German mobile : + 49 15 2230 54563 > > Email : [email protected] > > irc: irc.freenode.net #flossmanuals > > > > "Free manuals for free software" > > http://www.flossmanuals.net/about > > > -- Adam Hyde Founder FLOSS Manuals German mobile : + 49 15 2230 54563 Email : [email protected] irc: irc.freenode.net #flossmanuals "Free manuals for free software" http://www.flossmanuals.net/about _______________________________________________ Ada_list mailing list [email protected] http://aotearoadigitalarts.org.nz/
