I think the word aesthetics is a great word.Because if it's the study of
beauty it has to include ugly and in between.
If it does that,it has to include meaning in all it;s variations, and that
makes it impossible for any art, and." is" becomes fuzzier & fuzzier.


On Sat, May 10, 2008 at 11:37 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Derek writes:
>
> "Cheerskep is assuming, I think, that I want to propose working substitutes
> or replacements for these words ['aesthetic' and 'beauty']. I don't. I just
> want them ignored for say about 10 years. I want people to forget they ever
> existed."
>
> No. I said if Derek wants the words banned he could aid his case by
> suggesting other phrases in their place. And I expressly said the job
> couldn't be done
> with single "equivalent" words. I had earlier argued for banning the word
> 'reality' because it stirred different and often incompatible notions. At
> base the
> problem Derek or anyone has with 'beauty' and 'aesthetic' is very similar
> to
> that with 'reality': a reader can never be serviceably sure what the writer
> who uses those words has in mind.
>
> However, I wasn't trying to ban all the various notions a writer might
> harbor
> when he uses the word 'reality'. Some of those notions may be worthy and
> defensible. So I figured I should try to demonstrate how replacement
> phrases could
> be used depending on the various notions the writer wanted to convey. I
> said
> I believe we can in large part preserve and convey the particular core
> notion
> in the mind, while reducing the confusion caused by the many potential
> notions
> behind the word 'reality'.
>
> For example, when I indicted 'reality', I knew some people use it to
> indicate
> what they might call the "material" world "out there", like the "real" iron
> structure in Paris we call "the Eiffel Tower", and explicitly to exclude
> things
> that have only "mental existence" like fantasies of Santa Claus, paranoid
> delusions, and even sane worries, anxieties, fears, hopes. Derek, however,
> on the
> argument that fantasies and fears can be a dominating factor in some
> people's
> lives, opted to call such things "more real" to those who have them than is
> some remote material object they'll never see or even hear about.
>
> Neither notion behind the word 'reality' is "wrong", but they are mutually
> contradictory, so two people can be using the same word while entertaining
> incompatible notions. Brady, because Derek wants to call fantasies 'real',
> suggested using the terms 'fiction" and 'non-fiction' to render unnecessary
> the use of
> 'real' or 'unreal' when someone might want to classify factual accounts and
> fantasies. And I suggested 'notional' and 'non-notional' to distinguish
> purely
> "mental" entities from all entities that exist outside anyone's mind. Those
> locutions, I figured, accommodated Derek's notion when he declared
> anxieties to
> be "very real" to the person who has them, and the notion in the layman's
> mind
> when he insists the Eiffel Tower is "real" and Santa's factory is not. Thus
> the use of 'real' could be obviated, but core notions in both men's minds
> could
> be conveyed.
>
> If nothing else, pushing everyone to articulate more explicitly the notion
> they have in mind when they are inclined to use the words 'aesthetic' and
> 'beauty' would, in Derek's phrase, cut down on the "short-circuiting of
> thought
> processes" that the use of easily available but ambiguous terms always
> fosters.
>
> It's intriguing to see that even the same person can harbor contradictory
> notions and never notice it because he doesn't entertain both of them at
> the same
> time. He or she might, for example, on Monday claim the phrase 'the
> non-fiction, everyday world'   is "just another term for 'reality'", and
> then on
> Wednesday claim the Santa Claus fantasy has "reality" for a child. People
> can do
> this without noticing they have just implied that 'non-fiction' is just
> another
> word for fantasy.
>
> Or they might convey that they know art when they see it because it gives
> them a "response to art", and then on another day convey they believe in
> the
> existence of "bad art" -- which, I think we may assume, does NOT give them
> a
> "response to art".
>
> These are not insuperable confusions, but they require the speakers to
> spell
> out what they have in mind with the key terms.
>
> I don't trust anyone who insists that a given word is "the only one" that
> can
> serviceably convey what he has in mind.
>
>
>
> **************
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