Something "Godlike" , I would guess.
mando
On Apr 4, 2009, at 9:43 PM, [email protected] wrote:
"But I need to say that for me there are no painterly innovations.
Whatever
can be done with paint, I'm aware of".
That is quite risky proposition. It is like to be aware of infinity.
Boris Shoshensky
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Judging the late Titian
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 16:46:33 -0700 (PDT)
I see what you mean and you may have noticed that I inserted
phrases about
constructive perception which refer to those mediations we have that
manipulate what we sense.
But I need to say that for me there are no painterly innovations.
Whatever
can be done with paint, I'm aware of. I guess that's just the
awareness one
acquires after 50-60 years of intensee involvement with painting.
I couldn't
say that about other art media, say, in music, or architecture,
where I could
still be easily surprised.
WC
________________________________
From: imago Asthetik <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, April 3, 2009 3:48:30 PM
Subject: Re: Judging the late Titian
Mr Conger writes,
"I agree that the impact of an artwork is immediate, which is
almost the
same as saying that a work of beauty is instantly felt. So in
general I
would agree with Miller that we don't need to know anything
secondary to the
artwork to feel its effect on us, our perception, assuming that
perception
is a constructed response to sensory events."
I suppose that one of the things I would like to claim is that
'immediacy' =
'unrecognized mediation.' Reading a newspaper seems immediate, but
there
are a number of mediations, some physiological, some conceptual. I
do not
see how gazing at a painting would be any different. In fact, I would
venture to say that painterly innovations transform the way we see by
contesting various ways of structuring and conceiving of pictoral
space,
plane, colour, etc. Is that not one of Goodman's central arguments
concerning 'realism'?
In any case, nothing is truly 'immediate' and there is usually
something
ideological about claims to immediacy
On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 5:22 PM, William Conger <w-
[email protected]>wrote:
Well, I agree that the impact of an artwork is immediate, which is
almost
the same as saying that a work of beauty is instantly felt. So in
general
I
would agree with Miller that we don't need to know anything
secondary to
the
artwork to feel its effect on us, our perception, assuming that
perception
is a constructed response to sensory events. Where I do disagree
with
Miller has to do with judging that perception in some public way,
that is,
in a way that another can share, not in feeling necessarily, but in
reasonable terms. Think that judging does not require the
experience of
beauty as the immediate emotional impact of a great artwork but is
likely
enhanced by it. The personal experience of beauty cannot be shared
except
through some analytic way and that is only "about" the experience
and not a
replication of it.
WC
________________________________
From: Chris Miller <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, April 3, 2009 9:26:21 AM
Subject: Re: Judging the late Titian
Mr Asthetik asks: >Could you explain, Mr Miller, why artworks
_should_ be
immediately intelligible?
Ideas of 'work' and of 'beauty' are indeed theoretical
contrivances -- but
beautiful things can be made and enjoyably experienced without them.
(just
as birds can fly without a knowledge of aerodynamics).
My own ideas of 'work' and 'beauty' are rather vaporous as
theories go,
since
nothing is theoretically excluded.
BTW -- although I do claim that "no other evidence is required to
judge a
painting other than what is presented by the painting itself" ---
I am
not
asserting that "everyone should everyone be able to immediately
understand
a
work, be able to immediately feel its beauty"
I would like to substitute the word ' eventually' for
'immediately' in the
above sentence -- although our lives are too short to understand
and feel
the
beauty of more than a limited range of things.
William and I disagree concerning what that project requires --
but I'll
have
to respond to that on another day.
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