> Checks are a very outdated method for payment
May be, but under US Law (Uniform Commercial Code)
a check is a "promisary note" and as such a contract to pay.
You can easily take someone to court over a bounced or bad
check.
--
Larry Smith
lesm...@ecsis.net
On Fri June 29 2018 08:43, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> Oh yes, we have people complain all the time that they went to the
bank and
> sent a check out but we never got it for another two weeks or so.
>
> We also have people who say that their checks got lost in the mail
or we
> get an envelope that was never sealed.
>
> Yet another reason why I tell people that the credit card payment
method is
> much more secure than checks.
>
> Checks are a very outdated method for payment
>
> > On Jun 29, 2018, at 09:38, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> >
> > My cost of doing business was lower, which is why I did it. Maybe
yours
> > isn't. I will say it was a management push on my part to enforce
policies
> > that got everyone on ACH if possible. ACH was free, CC wasn't. As
a
> > result, maybe we had a more general cross section of our customer
base on
> > ACH that you so we didn't huge differences. And I guess that's why
people
> > do it differently. Your experience wasn't mine. But if mine was 5
times
> > worse I would still find it compelling from a monetary viewpoint.
But, it
> > really wasn't an issue for us from the PITA point of view because
the
> > software handled most of it. Maybe your customer base was
significantly
> > different than mine. We also got a big kick in ACH enrollment
because a
> > bunch of the banks in our area used the same "Bill Pay" check
printing
> > service. As we got one envelope with 150 checks in it for
different
> > accounts, all listing something stupid like ISP as the account
number,
> > and on top of that, payment was made late. The inevitable calls
came in
> > about why they were charged late fees, they scheduled it payed a
week
> > ahead of deadlines, etc. We would have to explain that we could
show them
> > the postmark, the date on the check, etc. Customer would say "they
took
> > the money out of my account on ...". Our pitch was always that if
they
> > let us pull the money via ACH we wouldn't charge them and they
could
> > never be assessed a late fee if we did the ACH. That got a bunch.
But
> > again, our experiences seem to be quite different.
> >
> > I just put the possibility of contested CC out there. I don't
think we
> > ever had anyone contest a charge. Maybe once on an install. I
don't
> > remember it if we did. But in my experience, that possibility was
roughly
> > the same as my chances of losing more money doing ACH than CC.
> >
> > In the end, that is what's great about this place right? I don't
have to
> > do it like you and vice versa.
> >
> >> On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 8:06 AM Matt Hoppes
> >> <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net
<mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote: It’s just the cost
of doing
> >> business.
> >>
> >> And yes they do have 60 days to contest it but most people don’t.
> >>
> >> We have a small handful of ACH and the number of bounced
transactions
> >> that occurred there is much much much higher than anyone
contesting a
> >> credit card transactions.
> >>
> >>> On Jun 29, 2018, at 08:21, Lewis Bergman
<lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> If you can't figure it out maybe math is the issue. 25 cents for
ACH.
> >>> CC is 2.75% and up. If you are doing 400k a month in CC that
adds up to
> >>> about 10k more in fees. In all the time we did ACH we probably
lost an
> >>> additional 3k that we would not have lost with CC. So.... 3k in
10
> >>> years is less than 10k in one month.
> >>>
> >>> So why do people still do it...they can do simple arithmetic?
> >>>
> >>> You do raise some valid points. If you have to have the money
and can't
> >>> wait two days and so want to pay an effective annual interest
rate that
> >>> is enormous.
> >>>
> >>> If you are drafting the routing and account info is your
customers not
> >>> yours.
> >>>
> >>> I had someone fraudulently present a check for 92k on my
account. Maybe
> >>> that proves your point, but the bank credited my account in a
couple of
> >>> weeks and it really wasn't a big deal to get done. Only time it
has
> >>> ever happened. So again, the math tells me even if that happened
every
> >>> year one time instead of once in twenty years, and I didn't get
my
> >>> money back, I would still be better off using ACH.
> >>>
> >>> But, to each his own. I know a lot of people don't like the 2
day
> >>> settlement period for ACH. in truth, CC is longer. You have
what... 60
> >>> days for someone to contest a charge. While they do it the bank
takes
> >>> the money back. Not that that is a big risk. Probably about the
same as
> >>> someone's ACH not clearing.
> >>>
> >>>> On Thu, Jun 28, 2018, 9:39 PM Matt Hoppes
> >>>> <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net
<mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote: ACH is slow (2 days
to
> >>>> clear)
> >>>> ACH is insecure (bank account numbers can be gotten off checks,
etc)
> >>>> ACH can wipe you out (if someone gets those account numbers)
> >>>> ACH does not provide real-time-feedback (may not know things
didn’t
> >>>> work until it bounces two days later)
> >>>>
> >>>> Why anyone still uses ACH or checks or beyond me.
> >>>>
> >>>> A credit card is:
> >>>> Instant (funds transfer immediately, you instantly know if the
funds
> >>>> are coming or not)
> >>>>
> >>>> Secure (there is a CVV code required - just having the number
gets you
> >>>> nowhere)
> >>>>
> >>>> Safe (if someone does steal your card they won’t wipe out your
account
> >>>> and you can quickly get the funds/transactions reversed)
> >>>>
> >>>> Easy to dispute
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I have one vendor I pay via check every month because they
won’t take
> >>>> cards. Otherwise everything I pay personally and business is on
CC.
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Jun 28, 2018, at 21:59, David Sovereen
> >>>>> <david.sover...@mercury.net> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Same here. ACH saves us a bundle, and once customers are used
to the
> >>>>> recurring payment, there are few bounces. Once a payment does
bounce,
> >>>>> however, we only take cash or card... guaranteed funds.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Dave
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>>
> >>>>> David Sovereen
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Mercury Network Corporation
> >>>>> 2719 Ashman Street, Midland, MI 48640
> >>>>> 989.837.3790 x151 office | 888.866.4638 toll free |
989.837.3780 fax
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Telephone | Internet | Security Alarm Monitoring
> >>>>>
> >>>>> david.sover...@mercury.net
> >>>>> www.mercury.net
> >>>>>
> >>>>> <image001.png>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Jun 28, 2018, at 6:51 PM, Lewis Bergman
<lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> That's true but if you assess a hefty enough penalty then
they pay
> >>>>>> you for it anyway. I used to make several thousand a month
just off
> >>>>>> of late fees and disconnect fees. We assessed a 25 dollar fee
for
> >>>>>> any NSF.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Thu, Jun 28, 2018, 4:49 PM Matt Hoppes
> >>>>>>> <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net
<mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote: Sure but it takes
two
> >>>>>>> days for the failure to come back, so the customer can use
that to
> >>>>>>> game the system if they feel so inclined. With a credit card
the
> >>>>>>> acceptance or rejection is instant.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2018, at 17:30, Lewis Bergman
<lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I guess it depends on your billing system, how it cuts off
people,
> >>>>>>>> etc. Mine would accept payment, then reverse it and cut
people off
> >>>>>>>> automatically. One of the few things it did well. I was
mostly ACH
> >>>>>>>> and it saved me a couple of grand a month if I remember
correctly.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jun 28, 2018 at 4:25 PM Matt Hoppes
> >>>>>>>>> <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net
<mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote: Hey CH is a pain in
my
> >>>>>>>>> neck. Yes I don’t have to pay fees with the fees are very
small,
> >>>>>>>>> but I am not guaranteed my money, and then I have to chase
> >>>>>>>>> balances and add fees and remove payments.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2018, at 17:20, Eric Kuhnke
<eric.kuh...@gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
https://engineering.gusto.com/how-ach-works-a-developer-perspect
<https://engineering.gusto.com/how-ach-works-a-developer-perspect>
> >>>>>>>>>>ive-part-1/
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Might be of interest for those of you whose billing
systems are
> >>>>>>>>>> set up for ACH direct debits via checking account
numbers.
> >
> > --
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