Who would want fiber when you can get <drumroll> 5G!
From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Saturday, September 7, 2019 10:07 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Having run both for decades, I would say that there probably have been more gopher and backhoe hits on the fiber than there have been failures on the microwaves. We did space diversity systems and sometimes multi band bonded microwave systems too. Pretty danged reliable. If you have spare parts you can restore them pretty quick unless you need a helicopter, which I did far too many times. The helicopter trips were always due to off grid solar issues, never the microwave. But I still avoid microwave due to bandwidth. Fiber is virtually infinite. Now-a-days I have people asking for 100G circuits. From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2019 7:43 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Darin, Reliability is a company issue not a medium issue. If that same fiber company all of a sudden built a wirelesses network, do you think it would be as reliable as yours? I believe if you designed and built a fiber network, it would just as reliable as your wireless network. -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. <http://www.Myakka.com> www.Myakka.com ------ Saturday, September 7, 2019, 12:03:09 AM, you wrote: We've also seen business customers leave us for fiber because it's "fiber" and when we followup after 6 months, they inform us of the 2 or 3 fiber cuts they had with them and how we were actually more reliable. Funny how they don't believe our redundancy claims until they deal with their new fiber provider who doesn't have any redundancy for 70 miles of fiber. We monitor all fiber cuts in Minnesota and the average is 20 hours to fix, the best I've seen in 7 years is 7 hours and worst is 72 hours. It's a battle trying to convince people that our backhaul network is more reliable than fiber networks that aren't on rings. On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, 4:29 PM Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote: Microwave backhaul is probably the most reliable thing there is. If power is provided at both end points and neither end point is struck by a meteor then the backhaul is up. When you install thousands of individual customers and compare the number of trouble calls and truck rolls, then I do think it's a different animal. I'm not trashing wireless. I've been in the ISP business for 20 years, and 15 of them were in wireless. My life is built around it. I'm just telling you what the future looks like to me. -Adam On 9/6/2019 4:25 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote: I’m not saying you can’t drill through rock but that’s why most everything in Pennsylvania is areal and why it’s so expensive to try to drill. And to everyone who says that fiber is more reliable than microwave, right now in the Outer Banks in North Carolina there is power out all over the place, fiber optic circuits that are down, and yet our microwave wireless networks are still trucking there and they haven’t missed a beat through the entire storm. On Sep 6, 2019, at 4:18 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > <ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote: I chewed through about $2K of carbide bits on a 6’ diameter rock saw last week. Not cheap. From: Adam Moffett Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 2:15 PM To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber How about a 6' diameter rock saw? There's a tool for every job right? On 9/6/2019 4:07 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: I just googled the geology of central Pennsylvania. Yeah, that is definitely some serious rock you got going there. From: Mike Hammett Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 1:57 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Assumingly at considerably more expense. ----- Mike Hammett <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP _____ From: ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 2:56:08 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber I do rock all day long. Even solid rock at times. -----Original Message----- From: Matt Hoppes Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 1:53 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Rock. > On Sep 6, 2019, at 3:44 PM, mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: > > Why? > > -----Original Message----- From: Matt Hoppes > Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 10:40 AM > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Colin Stanners > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber > > And the cost to run underground fiber in central Pennsylvania is > astronomical -- if not impossible. > >> On 9/6/19 12:37 PM, Colin Stanners wrote: >> Then they need to move to underground, as long as it's done well and the >> other utilities are good with CBYD, chances of problems are very small. >> >> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 11:32 AM Matt Hoppes >> <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net >> <mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net%20%0b> >> mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote: >> >> That's what everyone keeps saying.... but my fiber provider sends me >> e-mails every other week about pole fires taking out fiber, trees >> taking >> out fiber, wind taking out fiber, etc. >> >> On 9/6/19 12:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote: >> > When it's broken it can be expensive, but frankly it doesn't >> break that >> > often. >> > -Adam >> > >> > On 9/6/2019 12:29 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote: >> >> Except the contractor gets paid every time the fiber gets broken. >> >> >> >> On 9/6/19 12:18 PM, Adam Moffett wrote: >> >>> If you've only got 2 or 3 people *total* then you'd be relying on >> >>> contractors a lot and basically just being an owner/GC. Your >> capex >> >>> will be higher than with in-house labor, but console yourself >> with >> >>> the idea that the contractor only gets paid once, and you get >> paid >> >>> for 50 years. >> >>> >> >>> -Adam >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On 9/6/2019 8:30 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote: >> >>>> People ask why I don’t do fiber. The following story pretty much >> >>>> sums it up. For those doing fiber, how do you do it with a 2 or >> 3 >> >>>> man team? We’d be run ragged. How do you stay sain? >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Someone was logging up in Ogdensburg near Joe Hill and took a >> tree >> >>>> down which took another tree down which took another tree down >> which >> >>>> snapped off the side arms of the utility pole taking out the >> >>>> powerlines which burned the fiber underneath it. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Last night about 11 o’clock I drove up there on my way home and >> >>>> found the Crown Castle guys trying to figure out where the fiber >> >>>> damage was, I talk to them for a moment and they were like >> yeah it’s >> >>>> like 2500 feet away from here but we can’t figure out where the >> >>>> fiber goes, I said follow me, so they got over there and >> started work. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Zito was already over there fixing their fiber with about 10 >> guys >> >>>> and five trucks. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> I just spun back up there and as of this morning they (both >> >>>> companies) are still trying to figure out why the fiber is not >> working. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Add to this the utility easement is on the side of a mountain >> and >> >>>> not right beside the road. These guys had entire teams and >> haven’t >> >>>> fixed 1,500ft of fiber in 12 hours plus had to wait nearly >> 7hrs to >> >>>> even access the local due to power lines down. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> >> > >> >> -- AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> mailto:AF@af.afmug.com >> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> > <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> > <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com _____ -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com _____ -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com _____ -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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