So, the two radios seem to be pretty similar as far as features and price go (looks like Aviat may be a bit cheaper, but I'd have to look closer at what all is included as far as warranty, etc on each).
The main advantages for Aviat seem to be a bit better system gain, and a better/longer track record. The main advantages for Bridgewave seem to be the ability to use a single unit for a high or low spare, and the fact that you can buy them through normal distribution channels (that may or may not matter). On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 4:34 PM Tim Hardy <thardy...@gmail.com> wrote: > Latest info I have lists the system gain for the Bridgewave Navigator > balanced version, 80 MHz bw, 4096 QAM at 72.5 dBm compared to the Aviat > radio at 77.5 dBm > > On Jan 16, 2020, at 2:43 PM, Mathew Howard <mhoward...@gmail.com> wrote: > > How does the system gain compare between the Aviat and Bridgewave radios? > I don't see anything listed on the publicly available spec sheet for the > Bridgewave. > > On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 1:29 PM Tim Hardy <thardy...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Just so we’re comparing apples to apples, Aviat’s values are typical. >> Guaranteed values over time are 2 dB less power and 2 dB less threshold, or >> 4 dB less system gain. >> >> On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 2:05 PM Darin Steffl <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Just to clarify on the aviat advanced replacement, that does not come >>> standard? I have access to their pricing tool and a 2 year standard >>> warranty is included but it does not include advanced replacement unless >>> you upgrade to that option. It's very affordable from what I saw. >>> >>> We are likely going to deploy 6 links of the wtm4200 this spring. >>> >>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 12:35 PM Mathew Howard <mhoward...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Yeah, xmt power looks pretty impressive on the Aviat radios. It also >>>> looks like the receive sensitivity is a couple db better than the PTP820C >>>> at any given modulation. >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 12:24 PM Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> 25.5 dBm xmt power at 4096QAM is pretty impressive. I remember >>>>> several years ago some talk of chipsets would use some sort of >>>>> predistortion technique to cancel out the distortion in the power amp, is >>>>> that what is going on in these radios? I don’t remember who the chip >>>>> vendor was. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Adair Winter >>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 15, 2020 12:15 PM >>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Licensed radios >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> and we found that the WTM4200 has 5.5db more system gain then the SIAE >>>>> AP2 at 4096QAM which had better system gain then some of the other radios >>>>> on the market. >>>>> >>>>> SIAE questions if Aviat is reporting correct numbers but I don't think >>>>> they are incorrect either.... >>>>> >>>>> Even if Aviat's numbers are a bit exaggerated and there was only a 3db >>>>> difference that's still a whole antennas size! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 12:12 PM Tim Hardy <thardy...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Yes, as I mentioned previously the system gain of the WTM 4200 at 80 >>>>> MHz bandwidth, 4096 QAM is 77.5 dBm (threshold is -52.0 dBm and tx power >>>>> is >>>>> 25.5 dBm). This provides 7.5 dB more fade margin than the AF-11 at 80 MHz >>>>> bandwidth, 1024 QAM (system gain 70.5 dBm, threshold -52.5 dBm and tx >>>>> power >>>>> is 18.0 dBm) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Jan 15, 2020, at 12:58 PM, Mathew Howard <mhoward...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Based on the required signal levels listed in Aviat's spec sheets, it >>>>> shouldn't be that hard to achieve 4096QAM. I don't remember what the >>>>> numbers were off hand, but it was well within what I would expect on a >>>>> real >>>>> world link. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 9:59 AM Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Just to be clear, the links are actually running at 4096QAM? That’s >>>>> pretty impressive. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> But is it like saying you own a 250 mph car? It may be true, but you >>>>> also may not be able to verify it from personal experience. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Adair Winter >>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 15, 2020 9:46 AM >>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Licensed radios >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hell ya we do, we have three 4096 QAM links running and about to add >>>>> one more. >>>>> >>>>> It's the only way to go >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 9:43 AM Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> You have actual links running 4096QAM IRL? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I thought it was more like being able to land a quadruple axel. >>>>> Once. In practice. OK, define “land”. Walk away? Able to skate again >>>>> once the cast comes off? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> But I have to admit my view of licensed backhaul capacity has evolved >>>>> as video streaming has come to dominate the Internet. Once I thought the >>>>> only number that mattered was the 5 nines throughput, or worst case 4 >>>>> nines. But customers stream 24x7 and will raise a much bigger fuss over >>>>> most-of-the-time speed than over the occasional drop in capacity or even >>>>> outage. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Still, even on 2048QAM radios, actually getting 2048QAM seems like >>>>> hitting all green lights on the way to work. It’s nice, but you don’t bet >>>>> your life on it, or cry when you see the modulation drop to 1024QAM for no >>>>> apparent reason. Or 256 or 512 during heavy rain. Maybe if you have all >>>>> really short links. We are rural and don’t have that luxury. Most of our >>>>> links are 6-10 miles. And given that our climate future seems to look >>>>> like >>>>> Waterworld, rain cannot be ignored. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Andreas Wiatowski >>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 15, 2020 8:05 AM >>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Licensed radios >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I find the Aviat radios easier to configure…but the Cambium/Ceragon is >>>>> more of a mature platform. Aviat however does 4096QAM. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> <image001.jpg> >>>>> >>>>> *Internet.*** >>>>> ** >>>>> *Phone.****TV.* >>>>> >>>>> *Andreas Wiatowski* >>>>> >>>>> CEO/Founder >>>>> >>>>> Silo >>>>> >>>>> *1-866-727-4138, ext 600* <1-866-727-4138,%20ext%20600> >>>>> >>>>> | >>>>> >>>>> *andr...@silo.ca* <andr...@silo.ca> >>>>> >>>>> *silo.ca* <http://www.silo.ca/> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> <image002.png> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> <image003.png> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> <image004.png> >>>>> >>>>> *From: *AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> on behalf of Gino Villarini < >>>>> g...@aeronetpr.com> >>>>> *Reply-To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> >>>>> *Date: *Wednesday, January 15, 2020 at 4:31 AM >>>>> *To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> >>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Licensed radios >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> [EXTERNAL] >>>>> >>>>> Right… yeah mind f*** the 820c is a dual core radio… the Bridgewave >>>>> and Aviat radios that do this are single core… so less $$$ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *From: *AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> on behalf of Erich Kaiser < >>>>> er...@northcentraltower.com> >>>>> *Reply-To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> >>>>> *Date: *Wednesday, January 15, 2020 at 5:16 AM >>>>> *To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> >>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Licensed radios >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No you can do ACCP on one unit, you just need a combiner that they >>>>> sell that goes between the dish and radio. Non-Adjacent channels could be >>>>> an option with two radios but probably would do it with two PTP820S and a >>>>> combiner. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Erich Kaiser >>>>> >>>>> North Central Tower >>>>> >>>>> er...@northcentraltower.com >>>>> >>>>> Office: 815-570-3101 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 2:39 AM Gino A. Villarini <g...@aeronetpr.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Don’t you need an extra radio for this on the 820C? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *Gino** Villarini * >>>>> Founder/President >>>>> @gvillarini >>>>> t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204 >>>>> m: >>>>> >>>>> <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> >>>>> >>>>> <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> >>>>> >>>>> <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> >>>>> >>>>> <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> >>>>> >>>>> <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> >>>>> >>>>> www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968 >>>>> <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> on behalf of Erich Kaiser >>>>> <er...@northcentraltower.com>Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>>> <af@af.afmug.com>Date: Wednesday, January 15, 2020 at 2:49 AMTo: >>>>> AnimalFarm >>>>> Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Licensed >>>>> radios >>>>> <http://www.aeronetpr.com/>* >>>>> >>>>> <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> >>>>> >>>>> PTP820C does this its called ACCP. <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> >>>>> >>>>> <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> >>>>> >>>>> Erich Kaiser <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> >>>>> >>>>> North Central Tower <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> >>>>> >>>>> er...@northcentraltower.com <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> >>>>> >>>>> Office: 815-570-3101 <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> >>>>> >>>>> <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> >>>>> >>>>> <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> >>>>> >>>>> <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> >>>>> >>>>> <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Jan 14, 2020 at 4:17 PM SmarterBroadband <li...@sbb.net> >>>>> wrote: <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> >>>>> >>>>> Hi <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> >>>>> >>>>> <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> >>>>> >>>>> The BridgeWave Navigator states it can have more than 2x80 channels on >>>>> one dual core radio, however the extra channels have to be adjacent. >>>>> <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> >>>>> >>>>> <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> >>>>> >>>>> Do any other vendors do this in 11 and 18GHz Today (no vaporware). >>>>> And do any have non-adjacent channels? <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> >>>>> >>>>> <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> >>>>> >>>>> <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> >>>>> >>>>> Adam <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> >>>>> >>>>> <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> >>>>> >>>>> -- <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> >>>>> >>>>> Adair Winter >>>>> VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner >>>>> Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071 >>>>> C: 806.231.7180 >>>>> http://www.amarillowireless.net >>>>> <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> >>>>> >>>>> <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> Adair Winter >>>>> VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner >>>>> Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071 >>>>> C: 806.231.7180 >>>>> http://www.amarillowireless.net >>>>> <http://www.amarillowireless.net/> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >
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