The wife and I were checking into a hotel for my oldest sons graduation. The desk clerk asked what we were celebrating and I said my sons graduation.
She asked what we were getting him for a graduation present. The wife and I both look at each other kind of dumbfounded. Shit, we were supposed to get him a graduation present? I threw out “No student debt?” and both the clerk and the other person behind the desk asked if we would adopt them :-) Mark > On Oct 12, 2020, at 1:47 PM, Nate Burke <n...@blastcomm.com> wrote: > > I was lucky enough to get out of College with No Debt, thanks to my Parents. > They were not wealthy, but were frugal their whole life. Deal was they would > pay for 4 years, anything more was on Me. Stayed on Campus for 2 summers > that I paid for out of pocket. I was making $15/hr back in the late 90's at > Argonne Labs. Almost 3 times what my friends with on campus jobs made. > Smallish Liberal arts school. ~4000 undergrad. We still live in the same > city the school is in. The Campus has not gotten any more property, as it's > landlocked in a historic district, but they've added more buildings to their > existing greenspace. Had a nephew that graduated from there a couple years > ago. Just seeing how his experience was different from mine was mind > boggling over 15 years. > > It was a huge deal for my gang to go out for a meal. Getting Pizza was a > once a month thing. You looked forward to those floor movie nights with free > pizza. The On campus cafe was burgers and fries served on paper plates. > > Now enrollment is up to ~6000, multiple buildings on campus have coffee shops > in them. I'm not even sure you can get a burger on campus anymore, as all > the food locations have some variation of 'fresh' in the name. I'm pretty > sure that he was going out multiple time a week to upscale fast food places. > That seems to be the norm for most college kids now. I'm not sure where they > are getting all that pocket cash from, unless it's all on Credit cards. > > I think the biggest sadness is the college pranks, since it's not about the > fun, it's about the one-up/twitter/youtube views that have the potential to > just be dangerous. > > My parents would tell the story about the kid that took a cow up to the top > floor of the 5 story admin building one weekend. Or when they stole all the > legs off the tables in the cafeteria. I'd imagine something like that would > get you expelled now. I don't think we could have even pulled those off in > the 90's. > > On 10/12/2020 12:26 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote: >> Too much easy money out there for students. >> >> It’s not a simple problem - how do you make higher education available for >> those who don’t have the means to pay for it without inadvertently raising >> the costs for everyone? >> >> Visit any decent 4 year college. They are far closer to a country club >> than to colleges from the 1980’s and before. Fantastic facilities - every >> type of recreational activity or amenity you could possibly want. The >> amount spent on buildings and facilities is astonishing. Yet they don’t >> actually spend all that much money on faculty. Being a college professor, >> even with tenure, isn’t all that lucrative. >> >> The schools are competitive with each other in attracting students - and >> with cheap money available there is little or no incentive for students to >> shop on price. The schools are faced with the same competitive pressures >> as everyone else - except to keep rates down. The end result is >> predictable. >> >> Combine an easy (even predatory) money policy with a large middle class >> population with easy access to credit and you get exactly what we have. >> >> Giving away even more money by having taxpayers bail out the loan debt isn’t >> a good answer and only increases the problems. >> >> And we haven’t even started on the problems created by students graduating >> with useless degrees with insane levels of debt and then figuring out they >> can’t afford to keep living at the country club. What do you mean my >> studio apartment doesn’t come fully furnished with a pool, masseuse, and a >> barista? How the hell is anyone supposed to live like this? >> >> Mark >> >>> On Oct 12, 2020, at 12:52 PM, Cameron Crum <cc...@murcevilo.com >>> <mailto:cc...@murcevilo.com>> wrote: >>> >>> Universities know the government will give big loans to kids and they all >>> want to be on that gravy train. They raise tuition and just put it on the >>> kids to go get more money in the form of debt. Kids would be hard pressed >>> to pay tuition working their way through right now. Tuition costs have >>> doubled inflation and outpaced wages by 8x. My daughter just entered >>> college and through sheer luck, she ended up in Community College. She got >>> into every big school she applied to but after visiting them all, decided >>> none of them were for her. She really wanted to go to UT( Texas), but did >>> not apply because her teachers all told her she had to be top 7% to get >>> accepted and she was only top 10%. I told her to apply, but she did not. >>> So, as a result she decided in March she would just move to Austin and go >>> to ACC who has a transfer track program into UT if you can keep a 3.7 GPA. >>> She is taking the same classes as her friends at UT (all online) but paying >>> 1/5 the tuition. She is living in a private dormitory across the street >>> from UT campus with mostly UT kids, so basically has the same "college" >>> experience without the huge tuition bill, for now. I couldn't be happier. >>> She had a decent 529 for college but not enough for all 4 years even at a >>> state school. Now it might just last, especially if she decides to stay at >>> ACC for another year before transferring to UT. I'm hoping she can get out >>> without debt, but I'm guessing she'll have a little. I'm with Mike Rowe on >>> a lot of this. I never thought college was for everyone, and trade schools >>> are cheap in comparison, and you can be earning a good paycheck in a lot >>> less time. >>> >>> On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 9:00 PM Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com >>> <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote: >>> I started at $1.80 at the pizza joint. After a month or two I got a raise >>> to $2. I think all new employees got a quick performance review at which >>> they either got a 10% raise or got fired. >>> >>> >>> I had a summer job as a shipping clerk, I don’t remember what it paid. >>> >>> >>> First job after graduation in 1972 paid $10,920/year. >>> >>> >>> From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On >>> Behalf Of Chuck McCown >>> Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 6:53 PM >>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com >>> <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT good to be a boomer >>> >>> >>> Still , a fortune. I was making $2.50/hr in those years. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Oct 11, 2020, at 4:53 PM, Robert < >>> <mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>i...@avantwireless.com >>> <mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote: >>> >>> I forgot to take all the taxes out of that for each summer. I netted >>> more like 4K for the summer.. >>> >>> On 10/11/20 3:49 PM, Robert wrote: >>> >>> When I went to UCSC one quarter all up cost about $1.7K in 1975 This year, >>> just the tuition, room and board and mandatory health insurance is going to >>> cost you $36K _california resident_ I was able to work for $9.40/hour at >>> a gas station as a jr manager, opening and closing during the summer. 60 >>> hours weeks for 12 weeks. That was almost $7K for the summer, minus gas >>> and some small expenses while staying at my parents. Yes I was overpaid, >>> pays to know someone, I also opened, closed and did the books. But I >>> don't care who you know but joe blow isn't going to get a summer job that >>> is going to come anywhere close to $100K for summer or even year round work >>> when you are in college now. What's the difference? UC California turns >>> students away by the bushel. Instead of a system that focused on >>> California High School graduates, it's a system that focuses on attracting >>> donors that can put names on buildings. Slots are full from outside the >>> state at huge financial cash flow. Everyone else can go to a Jr College. >>> >>> On 10/11/20 2:27 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: >>> >>> Here’s one I don’t understand. Not pointing a finger, I genuinely don’t >>> understand. Student loan debt. Is that the huge issue that people say? >>> And if so, is that a new phenomenon? Why? >>> >>> >>> I assume my dad went to college on the GI Bill after WWII. I worked 20 >>> hours a week all through college making pizzas and burgers, and had a coop >>> job every third quarter or so until the coop jobs disappeared due to a >>> recession. >>> >>> >>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recession_of_1969%E2%80%931970>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recession_of_1969%E2%80%931970 >>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recession_of_1969%E2%80%931970> >>> >>> Plus my parents helped out. I don’t remember my friends in college talking >>> about student debt, but maybe they had it and it just wasn’t talked about. >>> >>> >>> I can speculate some possible reasons for a student debt crisis now: >>> >>> >>> - Tuition has gone up >>> >>> - Part time jobs and coop jobs unavailable or don’t pay enough >>> >>> - Less financial assistance available >>> >>> - Predatory for-profit schools >>> >>> - Lots of kids who couldn’t find jobs in the Great Recession went to school >>> or pursued advanced degrees instead >>> >>> >>> None of these seem like adequate explanations. College is too expensive, >>> not sure how much it has gone up adjusted for inflation. You’d think with >>> online instruction and extensive use of low paid adjunct professors they >>> could keep costs down. Certainly dorms, food and other amenities are a lot >>> fancier than when I was in college, maybe those costs have gotten out of >>> hand. You’d also think state schools and especially community colleges >>> would be affordable options, Harvard and Yale aren’t the only places to get >>> a good education. >>> >>> >>> But if there’s genuinely a huge student debt crisis, what is causing it, >>> and how do we fix it? Is “free college for all” really >>> the only solution? >>> >>> >>> I understand with the pandemic, people out of work can’t pay their student >>> debts, but supposedly this problem predates the pandemic. >>> >>> >>> From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On >>> Behalf Of Bill Prince >>> Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 3:54 PM >>> To: <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT good to be a boomer >>> >>> >>> Yah. Even though I'm a boomer, I think attributing the current state of the >>> economy entirely on boomers is missing the mark somewhat. There are a whole >>> raft of issues that are squeezing millenials like globalization and extreme >>> automation. You keep adding barriers, and getting or creating a good paying >>> job just gets more difficult. If all you can do is flip burgers at Micky >>> D's or pour coffee at Starbucks, maybe you need to think a bit more >>> creatively. >>> >>> >>> bp >>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >>> On 10/11/2020 11:52 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: >>> >>> Obviously I’m prejudiced, but I don’t think this whole trope about all the >>> problems young people today face being the fault of the baby boomers (and >>> wishing they would die and stop hogging all the good jobs) is quite >>> accurate. >>> >>> >>> Yes we had a long recession starting in 2008 (but of course there were >>> recessions back in the 1970’s as well), but I saw a lot of parents dipping >>> into their 401K savings and taking out loans on their paid-off houses so >>> their adult children could live with them, or to pay for their kids to go >>> to college instead of being unemployed. >>> >>> >>> Baby boomer 401K plans were a big cushion for millennials and the economy >>> in general during the “Great Recession”. I think what will actually hit >>> the millennials is when the boomers do die, they won’t be inheriting as >>> much money because those retirement funds got drained. Also, don’t kid >>> yourself that 70 year old boomer greeting people at Walmart or bagging >>> groceries at Kroger is just continuing to work for the fun of it, or that a >>> millennial wanted that job anyway. As far as the “good” jobs, age >>> discrimination kicks in around age 50. I don’t think Google and Facebook >>> have a lot of boomers writing code. How many boomers does Elon Musk have >>> designing Teslas and SpaceX rockets? >>> >>> >>> Still a funny skit, but I run into millennials who totally blame all their >>> woes on boomers screwing their generation over. And the “why don’t they >>> die already” viewpoint spills over into Covid discussions. Lots of >>> anti-maskers say things like “if they don’t feel safe going out, they are >>> free to not go out”. Or there aren’t that many deaths if you ignore the >>> old people who were going to die anyway. >>> People at least didn’t used to say stuff like that out loud. >>> >>> >>> >>> From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On >>> Behalf Of Robert >>> Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 12:25 PM >>> To: <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT good to be a boomer >>> >>> >>> very apropos... >>> >>> On 10/11/20 10:04 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> <https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/millennial-millions/3867395>https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/millennial-millions/3867395 >>> <https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/millennial-millions/3867395> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com>-- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> >> >> >> > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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