Too much easy money out there for students. It’s not a simple problem - how do you make higher education available for those who don’t have the means to pay for it without inadvertently raising the costs for everyone?
Visit any decent 4 year college. They are far closer to a country club than to colleges from the 1980’s and before. Fantastic facilities - every type of recreational activity or amenity you could possibly want. The amount spent on buildings and facilities is astonishing. Yet they don’t actually spend all that much money on faculty. Being a college professor, even with tenure, isn’t all that lucrative. The schools are competitive with each other in attracting students - and with cheap money available there is little or no incentive for students to shop on price. The schools are faced with the same competitive pressures as everyone else - except to keep rates down. The end result is predictable. Combine an easy (even predatory) money policy with a large middle class population with easy access to credit and you get exactly what we have. Giving away even more money by having taxpayers bail out the loan debt isn’t a good answer and only increases the problems. And we haven’t even started on the problems created by students graduating with useless degrees with insane levels of debt and then figuring out they can’t afford to keep living at the country club. What do you mean my studio apartment doesn’t come fully furnished with a pool, masseuse, and a barista? How the hell is anyone supposed to live like this? Mark > On Oct 12, 2020, at 12:52 PM, Cameron Crum <cc...@murcevilo.com> wrote: > > Universities know the government will give big loans to kids and they all > want to be on that gravy train. They raise tuition and just put it on the > kids to go get more money in the form of debt. Kids would be hard pressed to > pay tuition working their way through right now. Tuition costs have doubled > inflation and outpaced wages by 8x. My daughter just entered college and > through sheer luck, she ended up in Community College. She got into every big > school she applied to but after visiting them all, decided none of them were > for her. She really wanted to go to UT( Texas), but did not apply because her > teachers all told her she had to be top 7% to get accepted and she was only > top 10%. I told her to apply, but she did not. So, as a result she decided in > March she would just move to Austin and go to ACC who has a transfer track > program into UT if you can keep a 3.7 GPA. She is taking the same classes as > her friends at UT (all online) but paying 1/5 the tuition. She is living in a > private dormitory across the street from UT campus with mostly UT kids, so > basically has the same "college" experience without the huge tuition bill, > for now. I couldn't be happier. She had a decent 529 for college but not > enough for all 4 years even at a state school. Now it might just last, > especially if she decides to stay at ACC for another year before transferring > to UT. I'm hoping she can get out without debt, but I'm guessing she'll have > a little. I'm with Mike Rowe on a lot of this. I never thought college was > for everyone, and trade schools are cheap in comparison, and you can be > earning a good paycheck in a lot less time. > > On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 9:00 PM Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com > <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote: > I started at $1.80 at the pizza joint. After a month or two I got a raise to > $2. I think all new employees got a quick performance review at which they > either got a 10% raise or got fired. > > > > I had a summer job as a shipping clerk, I don’t remember what it paid. > > > > First job after graduation in 1972 paid $10,920/year. > > > > From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf > Of Chuck McCown > Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 6:53 PM > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com > <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT good to be a boomer > > > > Still , a fortune. I was making $2.50/hr in those years. > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > On Oct 11, 2020, at 4:53 PM, Robert <i...@avantwireless.com > <mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote: > > I forgot to take all the taxes out of that for each summer. I netted more > like 4K for the summer.. > > On 10/11/20 3:49 PM, Robert wrote: > > When I went to UCSC one quarter all up cost about $1.7K in 1975 This year, > just the tuition, room and board and mandatory health insurance is going to > cost you $36K _california resident_ I was able to work for $9.40/hour at a > gas station as a jr manager, opening and closing during the summer. 60 hours > weeks for 12 weeks. That was almost $7K for the summer, minus gas and some > small expenses while staying at my parents. Yes I was overpaid, pays to know > someone, I also opened, closed and did the books. But I don't care who you > know but joe blow isn't going to get a summer job that is going to come > anywhere close to $100K for summer or even year round work when you are in > college now. What's the difference? UC California turns students away by > the bushel. Instead of a system that focused on California High School > graduates, it's a system that focuses on attracting donors that can put names > on buildings. Slots are full from outside the state at huge financial cash > flow. Everyone else can go to a Jr College. > > On 10/11/20 2:27 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > > Here’s one I don’t understand. Not pointing a finger, I genuinely don’t > understand. Student loan debt. Is that the huge issue that people say? And > if so, is that a new phenomenon? Why? > > > > I assume my dad went to college on the GI Bill after WWII. I worked 20 hours > a week all through college making pizzas and burgers, and had a coop job > every third quarter or so until the coop jobs disappeared due to a recession. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recession_of_1969%E2%80%931970 > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recession_of_1969%E2%80%931970> > > > Plus my parents helped out. I don’t remember my friends in college talking > about student debt, but maybe they had it and it just wasn’t talked about. > > > > I can speculate some possible reasons for a student debt crisis now: > > > > - Tuition has gone up > > - Part time jobs and coop jobs unavailable or don’t pay enough > > - Less financial assistance available > > - Predatory for-profit schools > > - Lots of kids who couldn’t find jobs in the Great Recession went to school > or pursued advanced degrees instead > > > > None of these seem like adequate explanations. College is too expensive, not > sure how much it has gone up adjusted for inflation. You’d think with online > instruction and extensive use of low paid adjunct professors they could keep > costs down. Certainly dorms, food and other amenities are a lot fancier than > when I was in college, maybe those costs have gotten out of hand. You’d also > think state schools and especially community colleges would be affordable > options, Harvard and Yale aren’t the only places to get a good education. > > > > But if there’s genuinely a huge student debt crisis, what is causing it, and > how do we fix it? Is “free college for all” really the only solution? > > > > I understand with the pandemic, people out of work can’t pay their student > debts, but supposedly this problem predates the pandemic. > > > > From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf > Of Bill Prince > Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 3:54 PM > To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT good to be a boomer > > > > Yah. Even though I'm a boomer, I think attributing the current state of the > economy entirely on boomers is missing the mark somewhat. There are a whole > raft of issues that are squeezing millenials like globalization and extreme > automation. You keep adding barriers, and getting or creating a good paying > job just gets more difficult. If all you can do is flip burgers at Micky D's > or pour coffee at Starbucks, maybe you need to think a bit more creatively. > > > > bp > <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> > On 10/11/2020 11:52 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > > Obviously I’m prejudiced, but I don’t think this whole trope about all the > problems young people today face being the fault of the baby boomers (and > wishing they would die and stop hogging all the good jobs) is quite accurate. > > > > Yes we had a long recession starting in 2008 (but of course there were > recessions back in the 1970’s as well), but I saw a lot of parents dipping > into their 401K savings and taking out loans on their paid-off houses so > their adult children could live with them, or to pay for their kids to go to > college instead of being unemployed. > > > > Baby boomer 401K plans were a big cushion for millennials and the economy in > general during the “Great Recession”. I think what will actually hit the > millennials is when the boomers do die, they won’t be inheriting as much > money because those retirement funds got drained. Also, don’t kid yourself > that 70 year old boomer greeting people at Walmart or bagging groceries at > Kroger is just continuing to work for the fun of it, or that a millennial > wanted that job anyway. As far as the “good” jobs, age discrimination kicks > in around age 50. I don’t think Google and Facebook have a lot of boomers > writing code. How many boomers does Elon Musk have designing Teslas and > SpaceX rockets? > > > > Still a funny skit, but I run into millennials who totally blame all their > woes on boomers screwing their generation over. And the “why don’t they die > already” viewpoint spills over into Covid discussions. Lots of anti-maskers > say things like “if they don’t feel safe going out, they are free to not go > out”. Or there aren’t that many deaths if you ignore the old people who were > going to die anyway. People at least didn’t used to say stuff like that out > loud. > > > > > > From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf > Of Robert > Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 12:25 PM > To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT good to be a boomer > > > > very apropos... > > On 10/11/20 10:04 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: > > https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/millennial-millions/3867395 > <https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/millennial-millions/3867395> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com>-- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
