On Jul 23, 2021, at 2:32 PM, David Coudron
<david.coud...@advantenon.com> wrote:
Chuck,
If you were at the base of a mountain with lava flowing down it,
you’d drive that car with no brakes. It is a risk/reward
situation. I do know some folks personally that have health
situations that wouldn’t risk taking something until it has full FDA
approval. Not sure why that is so weird. Unfortunately this
topic is so explosive you can’t have a good discussion without the
“they should all be in jail” type of comment. If it was in jest,
as many comments in this list are, that would be fine. Everyone
needs to have a sense of humor. I don’t believe that it is.
I think you can probably take me off the list going forward. We
don’t seem to hit technical topics that often, and while I enjoy so
many of the folks on the list, I am finding more and more often the
topics are too devoid of substantive argument.
Thanks,
*From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of * Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:* Friday, July 23, 2021 3:19 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com>
*Cc:* Chuck McCown <ch...@go-mtc.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political
This is not like choosing to not wear a seatbelt. This is like
choosing to drive without brakes.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 23, 2021, at 2:11 PM, David Coudron
<david.coud...@advantenon.com
<mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com>> wrote:
I know, we can all make our own decisions. However, I don’t
believe I have stated anything that varies from the facts. I
can send you the Moderna sheet I received with my vaccine if you
want to see that.
Your points about FDA approval are probably accurate, however,
why is not OK to say that I want to wait for the approval?
That doesn’t seem so unreasonable. We don’t let folks on the
plane based on the likelihood that those on the no-fly list
probably won’t show up to get on the plane anyway. We still
check each and every person to make sure. Just like we do the
FDA approval process to make sure. Otherwise, we could just
tell drug companies “if you are pretty sure you’d pass anyway,
we won’t bother putting you through the approval process” We
don’t do that for good reason.
I agree with you on the memes both ways. Neither approach are
helping the situation. It should be a discussion based upon
the scientific merits of the situation. Unfortunately both side
love to poke at the intelligence of those that don’t agree with
their decision.
There is no way to know this for sure, but I wonder how many
folks publicly shaming others for not taking the vaccine know
that it is not FDA approved?
Likely won’t change lots of folks decisions, nor am I suggesting
it should have. But I don’t think that those of us that
decided to go ahead with the vaccination get to make medical
decisions for those who aren’t comfortable with an experimental
vaccine.
*From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Friday, July 23, 2021 2:56 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political
I'm not calling anybody stupid, but I don't agree with most of
your list.
On 7/23/2021 3:37 PM, David Coudron wrote:
Here is what I find particularly challenging about
suggesting that folks who have chosen not to take the
vaccine are not that smart.
1. Folks who do that never talk about that fact that this
is not an FDA approved medicine/vaccine. I took the
Moderna vaccine, the paperwork clearly stated several
facts. Among them are:
1. This is not FDA approved.
It has an emergency use authorization. FDA approval takes a
long time, but around 90% of the submissions end up approved
because they are pretty well tested by the manufacturer before
they apply. Anybody applying for FDA approval already has a
pretty good idea whether it's going to go through or not.
Presumably people on a no-fly list don't routinely show up at
the airport expecting to board a plane. Presumably people don't
try to get a CDL if they know they'll fail the drug test. Same
idea.
2.
3. This “vaccine” has not been proven to prevent the
virus. While we likely all agree that there is a
very good likelihood that this “vaccine” will help
prevent it, it is far from a proven fact.
99% of people dying of Covid right now are un-vaccinated. We
can split hairs and say maybe it didn't prevent them from
becoming infected, but it clearly prevents them from dying.
4.
2. The argument is, “there should be no reason to think
this vaccine isn’t safe since people aren’t dying from
taking the vaccine”.
I've never heard such an argument.
3. Vaccines are a risk/reward type of medical
treatment. Every medicine you take has some level of
side effect. The vast majority of medicines have such
negligible side effects, that they are considered
completely safe. The FDA approval process exists to
ensure we understand the potential of serious side
effects and drug interaction issues. If you are 30
years old and folks are saying you have to take this
experimental drug to prevent this incredibly small
chance of you becoming seriously ill or dying, it seems
like an intelligent thing to say “I am not sure the risk
of getting seriously ill or dying from this disease
outweighs the risk of using an experimental drug”. It
used to be that people relied upon a conversation with
their doctor to determine personal risk of disease and
use of a drug. Apparently we no longer do that. We
publicly shame people into using experimental drugs.
4. Since it is not FDA approved, we don’t have a full
understanding of drug interactions with other medicines
folks need to take.
It isn't some weird new chemical we just invented this year.
5. We likely understand the very common medicines, but,
certainly not all. We have FDA approval processes for
good reason. If for example, you were under 40 and
were taking seizure control medication, it would be very
fair to hold off on an experimental drug until it is
fully understood if the vaccine might lessen the
effectiveness of the seizure control medication. An
incredibly low risk of serious illness or death from the
virus could turn into a good chance of serious injury
from seizure. As far as I know data like that is
certainly not available yet.
6. Why do vaccinated people feel the need to belittle those
that have decided not to get vaccinated by an
experimental drug?
I don't know the answer to that. I'm not comfortable with that
behavior either. It goes both ways though. Plenty of memes out
there accusing people of being dumb sheep for taking the vaccine.
--
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