Sent from my iPhone
Begin forwarded message: > From: Chuck McCown <ch...@go-mtc.com> > Date: July 23, 2021 at 2:40:46 PM MDT > To: David Coudron <david.coud...@advantenon.com> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political > > You really think the FDA approval has that much value? When time is of the > essence and we discover cutting your arm off if you sprout horns will keep > you from infecting others we will all be carrying machetes while waiting on > the FDA. They are not geared for emergencies like this. Their emergency > approval is plenty good enough for me. > > And allowing you on the freeway without having brakes is tantamount to giving > machine guns to monkeys. > > Sent from my iPhone > >>> On Jul 23, 2021, at 2:32 PM, David Coudron <david.coud...@advantenon.com> >>> wrote: >>> >> >> Chuck, >> >> If you were at the base of a mountain with lava flowing down it, you’d drive >> that car with no brakes. It is a risk/reward situation. I do know some >> folks personally that have health situations that wouldn’t risk taking >> something until it has full FDA approval. Not sure why that is so weird. >> Unfortunately this topic is so explosive you can’t have a good discussion >> without the “they should all be in jail” type of comment. If it was in >> jest, as many comments in this list are, that would be fine. Everyone >> needs to have a sense of humor. I don’t believe that it is. >> >> I think you can probably take me off the list going forward. We don’t seem >> to hit technical topics that often, and while I enjoy so many of the folks >> on the list, I am finding more and more often the topics are too devoid of >> substantive argument. >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF >> Sent: Friday, July 23, 2021 3:19 PM >> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> >> Cc: Chuck McCown <ch...@go-mtc.com> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political >> >> This is not like choosing to not wear a seatbelt. This is like choosing to >> drive without brakes. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> On Jul 23, 2021, at 2:11 PM, David Coudron <david.coud...@advantenon.com> >> wrote: >> >> >> I know, we can all make our own decisions. However, I don’t believe I have >> stated anything that varies from the facts. I can send you the Moderna >> sheet I received with my vaccine if you want to see that. >> >> Your points about FDA approval are probably accurate, however, why is not OK >> to say that I want to wait for the approval? That doesn’t seem so >> unreasonable. We don’t let folks on the plane based on the likelihood that >> those on the no-fly list probably won’t show up to get on the plane anyway. >> We still check each and every person to make sure. Just like we do the FDA >> approval process to make sure. Otherwise, we could just tell drug >> companies “if you are pretty sure you’d pass anyway, we won’t bother putting >> you through the approval process” We don’t do that for good reason. >> >> I agree with you on the memes both ways. Neither approach are helping the >> situation. It should be a discussion based upon the scientific merits of >> the situation. Unfortunately both side love to poke at the intelligence of >> those that don’t agree with their decision. >> >> There is no way to know this for sure, but I wonder how many folks publicly >> shaming others for not taking the vaccine know that it is not FDA approved? >> >> Likely won’t change lots of folks decisions, nor am I suggesting it should >> have. But I don’t think that those of us that decided to go ahead with the >> vaccination get to make medical decisions for those who aren’t comfortable >> with an experimental vaccine. >> >> >> From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Adam Moffett >> Sent: Friday, July 23, 2021 2:56 PM >> To: af@af.afmug.com >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political >> >> I'm not calling anybody stupid, but I don't agree with most of your list. >> >> On 7/23/2021 3:37 PM, David Coudron wrote: >> Here is what I find particularly challenging about suggesting that folks who >> have chosen not to take the vaccine are not that smart. >> >> Folks who do that never talk about that fact that this is not an FDA >> approved medicine/vaccine. I took the Moderna vaccine, the paperwork >> clearly stated several facts. Among them are: >> This is not FDA approved. >> It has an emergency use authorization. FDA approval takes a long time, but >> around 90% of the submissions end up approved because they are pretty well >> tested by the manufacturer before they apply. Anybody applying for FDA >> approval already has a pretty good idea whether it's going to go through or >> not. Presumably people on a no-fly list don't routinely show up at the >> airport expecting to board a plane. Presumably people don't try to get a >> CDL if they know they'll fail the drug test. Same idea. >> >> >> >> This “vaccine” has not been proven to prevent the virus. While we likely >> all agree that there is a very good likelihood that this “vaccine” will help >> prevent it, it is far from a proven fact. >> 99% of people dying of Covid right now are un-vaccinated. We can split >> hairs and say maybe it didn't prevent them from becoming infected, but it >> clearly prevents them from dying. >> >> >> >> The argument is, “there should be no reason to think this vaccine isn’t safe >> since people aren’t dying from taking the vaccine”. >> I've never heard such an argument. >> >> >> Vaccines are a risk/reward type of medical treatment. Every medicine you >> take has some level of side effect. The vast majority of medicines have >> such negligible side effects, that they are considered completely safe. >> The FDA approval process exists to ensure we understand the potential of >> serious side effects and drug interaction issues. If you are 30 years old >> and folks are saying you have to take this experimental drug to prevent this >> incredibly small chance of you becoming seriously ill or dying, it seems >> like an intelligent thing to say “I am not sure the risk of getting >> seriously ill or dying from this disease outweighs the risk of using an >> experimental drug”. It used to be that people relied upon a conversation >> with their doctor to determine personal risk of disease and use of a drug. >> Apparently we no longer do that. We publicly shame people into using >> experimental drugs. >> >> >> >> Since it is not FDA approved, we don’t have a full understanding of drug >> interactions with other medicines folks need to take. >> It isn't some weird new chemical we just invented this year. >> >> >> >> We likely understand the very common medicines, but, certainly not all. We >> have FDA approval processes for good reason. If for example, you were >> under 40 and were taking seizure control medication, it would be very fair >> to hold off on an experimental drug until it is fully understood if the >> vaccine might lessen the effectiveness of the seizure control medication. >> An incredibly low risk of serious illness or death from the virus could turn >> into a good chance of serious injury from seizure. As far as I know data >> like that is certainly not available yet. >> >> >> >> Why do vaccinated people feel the need to belittle those that have decided >> not to get vaccinated by an experimental drug? >> I don't know the answer to that. I'm not comfortable with that behavior >> either. It goes both ways though. Plenty of memes out there accusing >> people of being dumb sheep for taking the vaccine. >> >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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