I just realized, civilization peaked with boomers. All downhill to
Armageddon from here on out....
*From:* Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2023 6:25 PM
*To:* Ryan Ray
*Cc:* Chuck McCown ; AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange
Exactly what problems are young people facing? Almost every single one
that wants to can enlist in the military. That will feed them and
teach them a skill (and some manners, and how to work) and they will
come out with the VA and GI Bill. Pell grants, student loans.
If someone wants to better themselves, they can. Kids today have it
far easier than ever before. Work from home, online classes that are
free, hell you can learn highly specialized technical stuff on Youtube.
What is wrong with making yourself a sandwich? If you are broke,
don’t f**king spend. You are making my point for me.
Oh, the horrors of having to cook your own food, walking to work and
living in a single wide. Those are human rights abuses man! (said
all the snowflakes and they melted and went down the storm sewer)
Where on the stone tablets that Moses brought down from the mountain
does it say: “Young people should have it easier than you had it”?
You eat what you kill.
https://historyhustle.com/2500-years-of-people-complaining-about-the-younger-generation/
*From:* Ryan Ray
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2023 5:55 PM
*To:* Chuck McCown
*Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange
Not defeatist or jealousy or envy.
I’m 34, I bought a 2500sqft house on a green belt in 2013 (25 Years
old). Sold my company, and I live an extremely comfortable life for
someone my age. No mortgage, a couple nice cars. I worked very hard,
lots of long nights, lots of learning to get to where I’m at, and did
it all without having any generational wealth to start with. To phrase
it for you old folks, I pulled myself up by my bootstraps.
However, your attitude is what makes me call you a boomer. You seem to
have no empathy and are not willing to discuss the current problems
facing young people today. You keep referencing back to how you did
it, and just a few bucks in the 80's or the 70's or whatever. I could
see it in your post. Saying things like "Make a sandwich at home, ride
the bus, live in a trailer"
Don't get me wrong Chuck, you're a smart guy. I've learned a lot from
you over the years both in person and through this list. I take that
as one of my core values is to listen to people, even when I think
they're stupidly wrong, and make sure I never close myself off to any
viewpoint and that makes me better in everything I do.
I just think you're hand waving away a lot of current economic issues
plaguing the world. Young people should have it easier than you had
it, just like you had it easier than someone born in the 20's. Or
should we just keep letting trillion dollar corps run the world and
you got yours, so the young kids can go pound sand because their
$18/hr job should suffice. (BTW my first "real" job back in 2008 was
35k a year) I was 19. No schooling, and that would be your $18/hr now.
On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 3:20 PM Chuck McCown <ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote:
Defeatist attitude.
Or just jealous? Envy?
In 1990 I was so broke I was sitting on the side of the highway
with my 4 kids (at the time) selling everything I had to get a bus
ticket to get out of town to get to a job to make a few bucks to
move the family.
Fast forward 10 short years and I had enough to retire.
Just hard work. At 40 no less, not 50.
And now 33 years later my house is 5 X larger than that.
Hell, my garage is bigger than that.
And my only roommates have been my kids.
But there was some sleeping in dirt and enjoying it at certain
periods.
Doncha only wish you could be like a boomer...
*From:* Ryan Ray
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2023 3:48 PM
*To:* Chuck McCown
*Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange
lol. These boomers I swear. Live in your 5 roommate 2000sqft box
until 50, retire at 87. Bcck in my day I slept in a dirt pile and
we enjoyed it.
On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 2:41 PM Chuck McCown <ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote:
Fantasy land
*From:* Ryan Ray
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2023 2:54 PM
*To:* Chuck McCown
*Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange
I think ages make a huge difference in a lot of this. If
you're talking about a 17 year old, you're still living at
home, saving all your money, trying to get out. Sure, $17 an
hour would be amazing.
If you're 22, you should be able to afford a 1br apartment on
your own, you shouldn't need roommates, you should expect that
you can save 1k a month for the future, maybe purchase a home
by 28? You're going to need to make more than $17 an hour.
On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 1:10 PM Chuck McCown
<ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote:
Not sure I am getting your point. Young people frequently
struggle when starting out. The struggle is valuable. You
get ahead by getting educated, getting trained, learning
skills people will pay you for. You do not deserve
anything but free air to breath and perhaps water if you
live in an area where it rains. You eat what you kill.
In your example below you are not taking into account,
those with half a brain will have roomates with which to
split all the rent and utilities. That one move makes it
go to having plenty of spending money.
So what is it you want me to learn here? In 1979 milk was
$1/gallon. It is now $4.33. Same price adjusted for
inflation ...
I do not buy that the kids now-a-days have it any worse
than I did.
Cost of a big mac in 1979 was 95 cents. Today, $4.50,
same price adjusted for inflation...
What do I need to learn here???
*From:* Ryan Ray
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2023 1:58 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Cc:* Chuck McCown
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange
Chuck,
I'm going to assume you're not trying to cherry pick
statistics and want to learn and listen.
Housing is only one part of the equation. Food, services,
fuel, goods are at all time highs. Rental markets are
becoming unfeasible unless living with roommates. I'm not
sure where or how this mobile home fits in with the work
in your area. Is there work in the area for your daughter
to earn $18 an hour?
Talent.com says that at $18 an hour, working for 40 hours
a week, gets you $2500 monthly net.
Going off these assumptions Cost of Living in Utah (2023)
| SoFi <https://www.sofi.com/cost-living-utah/>
Rent: $1100
Food (No Restaurants): $253
Utilities: $300
Gas?: $400
I think you yanks have things like health insurance. $100/mo?
I haven't thought of everything, but you're already up to
$2200/mo. You don't get ahead because you're behind before
you even start.
Now take into account that the average home price in Utah
is $500k and you cherry picked some bottom of the barrel
trailer. I can't tell if you're being serious or not.
On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 11:55 AM Chuck McCown via AF
<af@af.afmug.com> wrote:
One of my millennial daughters, grown, married, trying
to adult, lives with her brother and his wife told me
that I just don’t understand how hard it is today
compared to when I was younger. So I did a little
comparison for her:
My first paid job in 1976 was $2/hour. That would be
about $10.70/hour today.
(I was an unpaid apprentice to a machinist in 1974,
and slave labor on the farm from 1960 until I escaped).
My first skilled, formally trained, semi professional,
utility lineman job in 1979 paid $4.50/hour.
That would be about $18 today.
My first home, single wide 10 x 50 mobile home cost
$12,000 in 1982. Or about $36K today.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/744-S-1750-W-Vernal-UT-84078/2070550612_zpid/
So how is it people have it so much worse today?
*From:* Jeff Broadwick - Lists
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2023 11:39 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange
Too many parents want to be friends with their kids
and not actually parent. Good news is, if you do a
good job of parenting, you’ll likely have the
opportunity out to become friends with your kids after
they move out.
Jeff Broadwick
CTIconnect
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
On Feb 14, 2023, at 1:25 PM, Sterling Jacobson
<sterl...@avative.com> wrote:
Yeah, that’s a problem for sure.
All the youth (and some adults) see online is
prosperity and wealth and entitlement.
Your definition of existing just doesn’t even come to
their minds. To use a phrase, they literally don’t
comprehend it.
I was living happily in a one room apartment for $400
a month and eating the same PB&J and soup for
lunch/dinner on almost no monthly spend.
I had an old futon bed that I had purchased in
college as furniture. My monthly output was focused
on paying rent and a bit for food and my car.
I was hungry for more, made my way by learning,
taking what I could find and working my way up.
And during none of that did I think to myself, “This
is shit, I am entitled to more because I exist.” Lol
My grown kids ask for very little and even then get
told no all the time, or have conditions.
I worry about my younger kids that have spent a lot
more time online. They still know they get nothing as
a default, but they are more entitled in language and
practice than my older kids.
Society online in general isn’t doing anyone any favors.
I mean some of the youtube crap they watch is just
inane, and some of these people just throw around
money like it magically appeared to them out of thin
air without a care.
There is no accountability or explanation.
*From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of
*Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2023 10:37 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Cc:* Chuck McCown <ch...@go-mtc.com>
*Subject:* [AFMUG] FB Exchange
I advertised for hiring yesterday, a no experience
necessary, get paid to learn MIG mild steel welding.
PT/FT flexible hours. We hire 17 year olds. I
immediately got crap from this guy saying that the
“young people of today” cannot exist on less than
$18/hour which is what he gets and he works from home.
Lots of people defended my $15/entry level, get paid
to learn welding position.
He deleted his post then sent me this:
Hello there,
Our of respect for you because it wasn't my intent to
cause tension, I've deleted my comment on your
posting. My only point was to emphasize that the
going rate for a lot of entry level jobs is much
higher than $15 an hour. Welding is a great skill and
can open up great avenues in the future.
However, The youth of today cannot live on $15 an
hour so a lot of candidates will not even walk
through the door because other places even in the
field of welding pay higher to start.
What I emphasized at my company starting at $18 is
just one example. We have people here that make well
over $50 an hour because we operate on a commission
structure. But that $18 base is livable when a one
bedroom is $1000+ in tooele a month and depending on
where you live it's as low as $1600+
Again, never meant to offend so I am sorry for
causing you any trouble.
I replied:
So you expect someone to walk from High School
directly into a job where they can have a nice
home, car and things? Wow, without learning a
trade, profession or other skill? Our $15/hour
people take home $2000/month. Pretty sure someone
can exist on that and the smart ones will have
roommates or live with their parents. And the
smarter ones will quickly be making more than
$18/hour. We have exactly zero problems finding
as many workers as we need. So your opinion that
"youth of today" cannot exist on $15/hour is just
that, unfounded opinion. I guess your definition
of "exist" is different than mine. You can exist
by walking, riding a bicycle or taking a bus to
work. You can exist by eating home cooked meals
and making a home made sandwich for your lunch.
You can exist by wearing clothes from a thrift
store. You don't need the latest iPhone and
Netflix to exist. Read a book. The struggle IS
the journey and is what creates grit and strong
character.
He replied and blocked me:
Yeah Okay Boomer. I was reaching out to be nice but
you clearly have no idea what life is like for us
today. I just bought my first house at 31 because of
how shit things are right now compared to when you
were younger. But thanks for proving my point by
being an asshole about "my definition of exist"
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