When we used to actually sell routers it always seemed to be way more trouble than it was worth. Now we just offer managed routers as an add on service and give them an AirGateway (or AirRouter in some cases), and that seems to be working out pretty well.
If a customer leaves and doesn't return your router, it really isn't any different than if one gets fried by lightning or a rat eats it or whatever, you just have to set your prices to account for losing one here and there. ________________________________ From: Af [af-boun...@afmug.com] on behalf of That One Guy via Af [af@afmug.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2014 4:58 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Belkin routers going nuts if youre going to collections for 29 bucks thats rough, the word consumable makes them an expected loss. maintaining inventory isnt hard, they get a default config dumped into them at the time of install, when they come back they get the same dump file, theyre all accessible via the same internal ip, if theyre new theyre ubnt ubnt if not theyre the same username and password. all the settings that matter are already programmed, just add the mac into powercode, if they want wireless cut the wlan mac and name the essid. Theyre easy to manage. 29 bucks to not have to fuck around with a customer router is cheap. since we offer this, we dont have any obligation ethically or morally to help them with their own hunk of shit, we offer our hunk of shit. we only actually lose maybe 1 in 25. It amazes me as much as our customers are degenerate mopes, if they do replace our routers or cancel service most of them will drive all the way to our retail shop to drop them off. On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 4:51 PM, Josh Reynolds via Af <af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote: Then you have the whole process you have to go through as where you've lost an asset and need to report it against them for collections. Also, your install costs go up in providing these for free, then having to maintain inventory of them/reset/reconfigure, etc. Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com<http://www.spitwspots.com> On 10/07/2014 01:49 PM, That One Guy via Af wrote: apparently you did not see the word give. Do you know how much less hassle there is if you treat a cpe router as a consumable rather than a retail item? If they still have our router when they come to you theyre thieves and you dont want them as customers On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 4:39 PM, Ken Hohhof via Af <af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote: I’ve had the experience of picking up a customer from another WISP who had an airouter, in some cases they had moved out of the other WISP’s area into ours. The problem is you look at this little black router and no matter how you try, you can’t get into it, and of course the customer can’t, but they feel like they already paid for a router and if you can’t make their airouter work then you owe them a free router. Now as someone familiar with the airouters, maybe you know how to default them in such a way that you can get into them and reprogram them, but otherwise it’s just a useless shiny black object. When we deploy Mikrotik as a managed router we realize the customer is not going to be able to deal with the user interface, and won’t be able to just take it with them to the next place, that’s why we lease it per month and take it back if they leave, just like the CPE radio. Most residential customers don’t want to do this, but that’s fine, they can get their Belksys router with a consumer oriented user interface and also the 802.11ac that everyone apparently just must have. But if it dies or needs fixing, they go buy a new one at the store or call the onsite computer geek. From: That One Guy via Af<mailto:af@afmug.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2014 4:27 PM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Belkin routers going nuts We give out airrouters because we can enable remote access and disable the reset button, we lock down to a predefined naming system on the essid, and we only set the key to the mac on the label, we give no other option whatsoever. Thoug I hate ubnt clear from my scrotum to my chin, the air router is a rock solid little bastard, we give the customers the option to use one of those instead of theirs if they are having issues (we flat refuse to troubleshoot a customers personal router, unless im in a good mood) 9 times out of 10 they never call back in to provision a new router of their own. the only reason we see them swapped is big houses who need more wireless coverage or morons who believe a 300 dollar consumer grade router is going to make world of warcraft a little bit more real to them in their mothers basement covered in cheesy poofs On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 4:15 PM, Mathew Howard via Af <af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote: In the past I wouldn't have had a problem recommending Linksys, but now that they're owned by Belkin, I wouldn't recommend them... actually, I wouldn't recommend them anymore if they were still owned by Cisco either, but that's a whole different thing. ________________________________________ From: Af [af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] on behalf of Matt via Af [af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>] Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2014 4:12 PM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Belkin routers going nuts We typically recommend Linksys for a home router. Actually have had decent luck with them plus by having mostly one brand out there its easier to walk customers through things. Refuse to sell routers right now. If it quits 30 miles away they expect a service call to go fix it. Started experimenting with these as a managed router. http://routerboard.com/RBmAP2n With a crossover cable they will power up a Canopy SM. Less cords to get plugged in wrong. Anyone else tried them? > We did not implement the “loopback” fix. Nor walking customers through *HOW* > to manually change their DNS. I’d rather my customers buy a halfway decent > router than their $25 Belkin piece of crap on our network. > > > > When customers ask me what router I recommend, I just tell them I DON’T > recommend Belkin or Linksys. This just adds fuel to that fire. > > > > D-link DIR-655 ftw. > > > > -Tim > > > > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf > Of That One Guy via Af > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2014 11:31 AM > To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Belkin routers going nuts > > > > "We are aware of reports of an interruption to internet service when using > some Belkin routers with several internet service providers. " > > > > Man, that burns me, they word it in such a way they still dont take > responsibility for it, the word sever is powerful in that it indicates not > all, as in if you are on a different ISP it might work, which is totally > true, if its an ISP that backdoors solutions and redirects all DNS > > > > On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 1:10 PM, Sam Kirsch via Af > <af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote: > > Belkin posted up a workaround. Not much better then the loop but at least > its something you can direct customers to that makes it clear its not *your* > problem: https://belkininternationalinc.statuspage.io/ > > > > Regards, > > > > -- Samuel Kirsch, Tech Support/Web Development/Sales > Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net<http://www.plexicomm.net> > Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109<tel:1.866.759.4678%20x109> | Fax: > 1.866.852.4688<tel:1.866.852.4688> > > Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713<tel:1.866.759.9713> | > sam...@plexicomm.net<mailto:sam...@plexicomm.net> > > > > > > > > ------ Original Message ------ > > From: "That One Guy via Af" <af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>> > > To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" <af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>> > > Sent: 10/7/2014 1:04:53 PM > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Belkin routers going nuts > > Its a matter of principle, we all know belkin is junk, today only proves it > further. > > By fixing it on your end, your customers dont experience the junk first hand > > They sing the praises of their shit router because youre behind the scenes > fixing belkins fuckup > > > > Now they recomend them to their friends. > > > > So yes, you are in fact training your customers to make it your problem > everytime > > > > On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 11:52 AM, Mathew Howard via Af > <af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote: > > odd... when I first tried pinging it, we had a customer on the phone with > the issue (as well as a few after that). I wonder if the routers needed to > be rebooted after it came back up before they work. > > As long as the customers don't know you fixed it, there shouldn't really be > much of a worry that customers will make it your problem in the future. > > ________________________________ > > From: Af [af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] on behalf of > Tushar Patel via Af > [af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>] > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2014 11:38 AM > To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Belkin routers going nuts > > We did “torch” (one of the Mikrotik tools), that allows me to see the > destination address of 67.20.176.130, with protocol and the number of > source address accessing that. The number of source address trying to access > that was very high. Since morning we must have taken over 20 to 25 calls on > the subject. So from the resource stand point it was more efficient for us > to implement loopback response then to keep taking the call. We did not tell > any customers what we did to fix it. > > > > How it works: it appears that those Belkin routers were just trying to ping > the that ip address, so by putting loop back on our network, we are > essentially responding to that ip address and that make the Belkin router > happy. > > > > As you mentioned below that you were able to ping it, earlier we were not > able to ping that ip address, may be they have already fix the problem. > > > > Thanks, > > Tushar Patel > > 512-257-1077<tel:512-257-1077> > > www.westernbroadband.com<http://www.westernbroadband.com> > > > > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf > Of Mathew Howard via Af > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2014 11:18 AM > To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Belkin routers going nuts > > > > Yeah... if I were to do something like that, I wouldn't let any customers > know I did it... but I don't like messing with the network to fix things > that aren't really my problem anyway, it would be nice to make those calls > stop, but it doesn't seem worth it. > > I'm still a bit confused how that is making it work anyway though, since I > can ping that IP... how does putting it on an internal router make it work? > for those who have done it, is your router giving any HTTP response on that > IP? > > ________________________________ > > From: Af [af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] on behalf of > That One Guy via Af > [af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>] > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2014 11:06 AM > To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Belkin routers going nuts > > that sounds alot like doing Belkins job for them, and guarantees from that > point forward everytime a customer has any issue. "just do that brokeback > loop thing you did, this is your problem, fix it now, i pay good money for > this service, i run a business, and my kids go to school and my pacemaker > will stop" > > > > On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 10:53 AM, Tushar Patel via Af > <af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote: > > As somebody suggested earlier to put loopback with the 67.20.176.130, on one > of the internal router appears to fix the problem. > > Thanks, > Tushar Patel > 512-257-1077<tel:512-257-1077> > www.westernbroadband.com<http://www.westernbroadband.com> > > -----Original Message----- > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf > Of David via Af > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2014 10:42 AM > To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Belkin routers going nuts > > We are seeing this also.. > Belkin domain is down > Also be aware that the belkins use > heartbeat.belkin.com<http://heartbeat.belkin.com> to check to see > if there is internet access and if the answer > > comes back negative then it will not connect any lan clients to internet. > Also there are a few exploits that have been exposed on 1.00 firmware > which do bad things to the wan side of things. > > I am currently trying to spoof > heartbeat.belkin.com<http://heartbeat.belkin.com> to our internal dns > to fool the router into thinking everything is ok. > > On 10/07/2014 09:11 AM, Mark Radabaugh via Af wrote: >> 13 customers so far today - all Belkin. >> >> Powned? >> >> Mark >> >> On 10/7/14, 10:04 AM, Darren Shea via Af wrote: >>> Is anyone else getting inundated with a flood of customers who can't >>> connect to the internet through their Belkin routers this >>> morning? >>> What's the deal with that?, >>> Darren >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > > > > > -- > > All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the > parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you can't > get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not use a > hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925 > > > > > > -- > > All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the > parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you can't > get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not use a > hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925 > > > > > > -- > > All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the > parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you can't > get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not use a > hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925 -- All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925 -- All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925 -- All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925
