Yes corporate welfare is very damaging to capitalism and the economy. Banks, car manufactures, airlines, on and on.
On Thursday, October 9, 2014, Rory Conaway via Af <af@afmug.com> wrote: > It can’t if it’s constantly chipped apart from the bottom up. Between > continued growth of the welfare state, unchecked immigration and growth of > an uneducated population, and lawlessness from the President on down, > Capitalism won’t survive. Unfortunately, if it fails, then so does the > country and as evidenced by the unchecked growth of evil philosophies such > as radical Islam, dictatorships masquerading as Communism, and Communist > countries with no moral or ethical foundation, complete anarchy worldwide. > Capitalism funds and drives the United States to continue to be a leader in > the world. > > > > Rory > > > > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af-boun...@afmug.com');>] *On Behalf Of *Chris > Wright via Af > *Sent:* Thursday, October 09, 2014 12:58 PM > *To:* af@afmug.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare > > > > While capitalism may have *built* the greatest country in the world, some > think capitalism cannot *sustain* the greatest country in the world. > > > > Chris Wright > > Velociter Wireless <http://www.velociter.net/> > > > > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af-boun...@afmug.com');>] *On Behalf Of *Rory > Conaway via Af > *Sent:* Thursday, October 09, 2014 9:47 AM > *To:* af@afmug.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare > > > > Collin, socialized medicine or socialized anything doesn’t work. What > happened to the idea that Capitalism built the greatest country and the > greatest health care in the world. Why does everybody forget that and keep > wanting to go back to the failed systems in Europe, Socialism, Communism. > > > > Costs go up because of attorney’s and the technology behind our health > care. If you want cheap health care, get rid of MRI machines, genome > cancer treatments, laser surgeries, AiDs drugs, Hepatitis drug research, > etc… If all you want is an aspirin and a hug, you keep holding to the idea > that socialized medicine is a great idea. > > > > Rory > > > > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af-boun...@afmug.com');>] *On Behalf Of *Bill > Prince via Af > *Sent:* Thursday, October 09, 2014 9:41 AM > *To:* af@afmug.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare > > > > Amen brother Conlin. > > The way I see it, the biggest problem is that ObamaCare didn't go far > enough. We really, really need to have a system that gets a handle on the > costs. The cost to US citizens is more than double the cost to other > developed countries. > > Just peruse this: > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/26/charts-health-care-costs-americans_n_2957266.html > > bp > > On 10/9/2014 5:12 AM, Paul Conlin via Af wrote: > > What did people expect? Insurance companies are the house. They always > make money. By accepting pre-existing conditions everyone else’s premiums > go up. By definition. The only way health insurance can work is if it is > universal (code for mandatory). Can’t have people who can do math, like > Chuck, opting out. Or healthy people saying no. Everyone in. Everyone > pays. Spreads out the costs. > > > > ObamaCare was never about controlling costs. It was about increasing > coverage. More coverage costs more. Why are people surprised at this? If > you want to control costs you have to redesign the way money flows. Our > system of providers and insurance companies is **designed** to maximize > heath costs. It is a positive feedback loop. What is needed is a single > payer system, like Canada, where one paying party can have maximum leverage > to minimize costs and who has limited ability to raise taxes. It is a > proper (negative) feedback system that has inheritably more control. > Canada, for the record, is not privatized health care like the VHA. In > fact it is the opposite. The Government of Canada purchases all its > healthcare from private entities, like Medicare. A fact yet to be > discovered by the media in the USA. > > > > It is hard to understand why the Republican’s hate ObamaCare since it was > mostly their idea. Well, other than ObamaCare was championed by Obama and > I guess that is enough reason. The basic concept to use the free market > and let industry to its thing is normally what Republican’s want. Not to > mention its inherent ability to make more money for insurance companies and > private industry. Sure, they are upset that it is being used as a wealth > distribution system that makes people with money pay more and people > without pay less. Ok, so that is two reasons they hate it. > > > > The mistake made, was not implementing a single payer system > simultaneously with universal coverage. The CBO calculated the saving from > the former would pay for the later resulting in no increase in > out-of-pocket costs. Then the other benefits of such a privatized system > would start to kick in and the open market competition for services will > drive costs down. With health care general health would improve and costs > would go down even more. > > > > Unfortunately the Government is dysfunctional and has zero chance of > overcoming the trillions of dollars companies are making off of the > existing out of control health care system. And if they could pass the > laws, would anyone trust our Government to run such a program? And there > is the root problem. > > > > Obviously an over simplification but now back to my real job. > > > > PC > > Blaze Broadband > > > > > > > > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af-boun...@afmug.com');>] *On Behalf Of *Rory > Conaway via Af > *Sent:* Thursday, October 9, 2014 12:33 AM > *To:* af@afmug.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare > > > > People with pre-existing conditions are one of the few groups benefitting > from this. > > > > Rory > > > > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af-boun...@afmug.com');>] *On Behalf Of *Jeremy > via Af > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 08, 2014 7:32 PM > *To:* af@afmug.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare > > > > We pay about the same as we did but our deductible is lower, our out of > pocket max is lower, and they covered our pregnancy. We switched during > the first trimester because we didn't have maternity coverage (no > self-insured plans in our state had it), and Obamacare made pregnancy not > count as a pre-existing condition. It saved us about $7,000-$8,000 this > year. The craziest part is that we actually stayed with the same provider, > Select Health (IHC). It was just the difference between them providing > maternity and not providing maternity. We have been very happy with our > Obamacare. > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 6:50 PM, Glen Waldrop via Af <af@afmug.com > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');>> wrote: > > Further the subsidies have been deemed unconstitutional, so they're > forcing us to pay insurance with the promise of subsidies that they are now > going to take away. > > Bait and switch. > > > > The whole thing has been a screwup from day one. > > > > It is actually cheaper for me to pay out of pocket than pay for this > insurance, but the fines will get you either way. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* Rory Conaway via Af <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');> > > *To:* af@afmug.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');> > > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 08, 2014 7:03 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare > > > > And so did the quality and options of your care. I know that 2 of my > doctors retired early and the other one doesn’t take Obamacare. > Fortunately I don’t have to use it. > > > > Here is my question though, doesn’t the fact that the federal government > wasted a couple billion dollars of your taxes on websites that don’t work, > companies that are paying workers to do nothing, and companies that are > friends with the First Lady with no bid process in place? > > > > Rory > > > > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af-boun...@afmug.com');>] *On Behalf Of *Sean > Heskett via Af > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 08, 2014 5:00 PM > *To:* af@afmug.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare > > > > Please don't forget that this whole "obamacare" thing was "invented" by > the American Heratage Foundation which is a republican think tank. And the > republicans tried to squash "Hillarycare" with it in the 1990's. > > > > Be careful what you ask for because you just might get it. > > > > Also, so far in the states that set up their own exchanges medical costs > and premiums have been going down...mine sure did :) > > > > 2cents > > > > Sean > > On Wednesday, October 8, 2014, Travis Johnson via Af <af@afmug.com > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');>> wrote: > > Hi... > > I'm not sure exactly how this ObamaCare thing was supposed to "save > everyone money" and provider "better health care". We just received our > group health insurance premium notice for the upcoming year, and our rates > will go up by 10% starting 2015. > > On top of that, everyone is now paying a 3% ObamaCare tax on their > personal income taxes. This doesn't really seem like much of a savings to > me... :( > > Travis > > > > >
