Collin, socialized medicine or socialized anything doesn’t
work. What happened to the idea that Capitalism built the
greatest country and the greatest health care in the world. Why
does everybody forget that and keep wanting to go back to the
failed systems in Europe, Socialism, Communism.
Costs go up because of attorney’s and the technology behind our
health care. If you want cheap health care, get rid of MRI
machines, genome cancer treatments, laser surgeries, AiDs drugs,
Hepatitis drug research, etc… If all you want is an aspirin and
a hug, you keep holding to the idea that socialized medicine is
a great idea.
Rory
*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill
Prince via Af
*Sent:* Thursday, October 09, 2014 9:41 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare
Amen brother Conlin.
The way I see it, the biggest problem is that ObamaCare didn't
go far enough. We really, really need to have a system that
gets a handle on the costs. The cost to US citizens is more
than double the cost to other developed countries.
Just peruse this:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/26/charts-health-care-costs-americans_n_2957266.html
bp
On 10/9/2014 5:12 AM, Paul Conlin via Af wrote:
What did people expect? Insurance companies are the house.
They always make money. By accepting pre-existing
conditions everyone else’s premiums go up. By definition.
The only way health insurance can work is if it is universal
(code for mandatory). Can’t have people who can do math,
like Chuck, opting out. Or healthy people saying no.
Everyone in. Everyone pays. Spreads out the costs.
ObamaCare was never about controlling costs. It was about
increasing coverage. More coverage costs more. Why are
people surprised at this? If you want to control costs you
have to redesign the way money flows. Our system of
providers and insurance companies is **designed** to
maximize heath costs. It is a positive feedback loop. What
is needed is a single payer system, like Canada, where one
paying party can have maximum leverage to minimize costs and
who has limited ability to raise taxes. It is a proper
(negative) feedback system that has inheritably more
control. Canada, for the record, is not privatized health
care like the VHA. In fact it is the opposite. The
Government of Canada purchases all its healthcare from
private entities, like Medicare. A fact yet to be
discovered by the media in the USA.
It is hard to understand why the Republican’s hate ObamaCare
since it was mostly their idea. Well, other than ObamaCare
was championed by Obama and I guess that is enough reason.
The basic concept to use the free market and let industry to
its thing is normally what Republican’s want. Not to
mention its inherent ability to make more money for
insurance companies and private industry. Sure, they are
upset that it is being used as a wealth distribution system
that makes people with money pay more and people without pay
less. Ok, so that is two reasons they hate it.
The mistake made, was not implementing a single payer system
simultaneously with universal coverage. The CBO calculated
the saving from the former would pay for the later resulting
in no increase in out-of-pocket costs. Then the other
benefits of such a privatized system would start to kick in
and the open market competition for services will drive
costs down. With health care general health would improve
and costs would go down even more.
Unfortunately the Government is dysfunctional and has zero
chance of overcoming the trillions of dollars companies are
making off of the existing out of control health care
system. And if they could pass the laws, would anyone trust
our Government to run such a program? And there is the root
problem.
Obviously an over simplification but now back to my real job.
PC
Blaze Broadband
*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Rory
Conaway via Af
*Sent:* Thursday, October 9, 2014 12:33 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare
People with pre-existing conditions are one of the few
groups benefitting from this.
Rory
*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of
*Jeremy via Af
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 08, 2014 7:32 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare
We pay about the same as we did but our deductible is lower,
our out of pocket max is lower, and they covered our
pregnancy. We switched during the first trimester because
we didn't have maternity coverage (no self-insured plans in
our state had it), and Obamacare made pregnancy not count as
a pre-existing condition. It saved us about $7,000-$8,000
this year. The craziest part is that we actually stayed
with the same provider, Select Health (IHC). It was just
the difference between them providing maternity and not
providing maternity. We have been very happy with our
Obamacare.
On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 6:50 PM, Glen Waldrop via Af
<af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:
Further the subsidies have been deemed unconstitutional, so
they're forcing us to pay insurance with the promise of
subsidies that they are now going to take away.
Bait and switch.
The whole thing has been a screwup from day one.
It is actually cheaper for me to pay out of pocket than pay
for this insurance, but the fines will get you either way.
----- Original Message -----
*From:*Rory Conaway via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent:*Wednesday, October 08, 2014 7:03 PM
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare
And so did the quality and options of your care. I know
that 2 of my doctors retired early and the other one
doesn’t take Obamacare. Fortunately I don’t have to use it.
Here is my question though, doesn’t the fact that the
federal government wasted a couple billion dollars of
your taxes on websites that don’t work, companies that
are paying workers to do nothing, and companies that are
friends with the First Lady with no bid process in place?
Rory
*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of *Sean
Heskett via Af
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 08, 2014 5:00 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare
Please don't forget that this whole "obamacare" thing
was "invented" by the American Heratage Foundation which
is a republican think tank. And the republicans tried
to squash "Hillarycare" with it in the 1990's.
Be careful what you ask for because you just might get it.
Also, so far in the states that set up their own
exchanges medical costs and premiums have been going
down...mine sure did :)
2cents
Sean
On Wednesday, October 8, 2014, Travis Johnson via Af
<af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:
Hi...
I'm not sure exactly how this ObamaCare thing was
supposed to "save everyone money" and provider "better
health care". We just received our group health
insurance premium notice for the upcoming year, and our
rates will go up by 10% starting 2015.
On top of that, everyone is now paying a 3% ObamaCare
tax on their personal income taxes. This doesn't really
seem like much of a savings to me... :(
Travis
