It can’t if it’s constantly chipped apart from the bottom up.
Between continued growth of the welfare state, unchecked immigration
and growth of an uneducated population, and lawlessness from the
President on down, Capitalism won’t survive. Unfortunately, if it
fails, then so does the country and as evidenced by the unchecked
growth of evil philosophies such as radical Islam, dictatorships
masquerading as Communism, and Communist countries with no moral or
ethical foundation, complete anarchy worldwide. Capitalism funds and
drives the United States to continue to be a leader in the world.
Rory
*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chris Wright
via Af
*Sent:* Thursday, October 09, 2014 12:58 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare
While capitalism may have *built* the greatest country in the world,
some think capitalism cannot *sustain* the greatest country in the
world.
Chris Wright
Velociter Wireless <http://www.velociter.net/>
*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Rory Conaway
via Af
*Sent:* Thursday, October 09, 2014 9:47 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare
Collin, socialized medicine or socialized anything doesn’t work.
What happened to the idea that Capitalism built the greatest country
and the greatest health care in the world. Why does everybody
forget that and keep wanting to go back to the failed systems in
Europe, Socialism, Communism.
Costs go up because of attorney’s and the technology behind our
health care. If you want cheap health care, get rid of MRI
machines, genome cancer treatments, laser surgeries, AiDs drugs,
Hepatitis drug research, etc… If all you want is an aspirin and a
hug, you keep holding to the idea that socialized medicine is a
great idea.
Rory
*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
via Af
*Sent:* Thursday, October 09, 2014 9:41 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare
Amen brother Conlin.
The way I see it, the biggest problem is that ObamaCare didn't go
far enough. We really, really need to have a system that gets a
handle on the costs. The cost to US citizens is more than double
the cost to other developed countries.
Just peruse this:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/26/charts-health-care-costs-americans_n_2957266.html
bp
On 10/9/2014 5:12 AM, Paul Conlin via Af wrote:
What did people expect? Insurance companies are the house. They
always make money. By accepting pre-existing conditions
everyone else’s premiums go up. By definition. The only way
health insurance can work is if it is universal (code for
mandatory). Can’t have people who can do math, like Chuck,
opting out. Or healthy people saying no. Everyone in.
Everyone pays. Spreads out the costs.
ObamaCare was never about controlling costs. It was about
increasing coverage. More coverage costs more. Why are people
surprised at this? If you want to control costs you have to
redesign the way money flows. Our system of providers and
insurance companies is **designed** to maximize heath costs. It
is a positive feedback loop. What is needed is a single payer
system, like Canada, where one paying party can have maximum
leverage to minimize costs and who has limited ability to raise
taxes. It is a proper (negative) feedback system that has
inheritably more control. Canada, for the record, is not
privatized health care like the VHA. In fact it is the
opposite. The Government of Canada purchases all its healthcare
from private entities, like Medicare. A fact yet to be
discovered by the media in the USA.
It is hard to understand why the Republican’s hate ObamaCare
since it was mostly their idea. Well, other than ObamaCare was
championed by Obama and I guess that is enough reason. The
basic concept to use the free market and let industry to its
thing is normally what Republican’s want. Not to mention its
inherent ability to make more money for insurance companies and
private industry. Sure, they are upset that it is being used as
a wealth distribution system that makes people with money pay
more and people without pay less. Ok, so that is two reasons
they hate it.
The mistake made, was not implementing a single payer system
simultaneously with universal coverage. The CBO calculated the
saving from the former would pay for the later resulting in no
increase in out-of-pocket costs. Then the other benefits of such
a privatized system would start to kick in and the open market
competition for services will drive costs down. With health care
general health would improve and costs would go down even more.
Unfortunately the Government is dysfunctional and has zero
chance of overcoming the trillions of dollars companies are
making off of the existing out of control health care system.
And if they could pass the laws, would anyone trust our
Government to run such a program? And there is the root problem.
Obviously an over simplification but now back to my real job.
PC
Blaze Broadband
*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Rory
Conaway via Af
*Sent:* Thursday, October 9, 2014 12:33 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare
People with pre-existing conditions are one of the few groups
benefitting from this.
Rory
*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jeremy via Af
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 08, 2014 7:32 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare
We pay about the same as we did but our deductible is lower, our
out of pocket max is lower, and they covered our pregnancy. We
switched during the first trimester because we didn't have
maternity coverage (no self-insured plans in our state had it),
and Obamacare made pregnancy not count as a pre-existing
condition. It saved us about $7,000-$8,000 this year. The
craziest part is that we actually stayed with the same provider,
Select Health (IHC). It was just the difference between them
providing maternity and not providing maternity. We have been
very happy with our Obamacare.
On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 6:50 PM, Glen Waldrop via Af
<af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:
Further the subsidies have been deemed unconstitutional, so
they're forcing us to pay insurance with the promise of
subsidies that they are now going to take away.
Bait and switch.
The whole thing has been a screwup from day one.
It is actually cheaper for me to pay out of pocket than pay for
this insurance, but the fines will get you either way.
----- Original Message -----
*From:*Rory Conaway via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent:*Wednesday, October 08, 2014 7:03 PM
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare
And so did the quality and options of your care. I know
that 2 of my doctors retired early and the other one doesn’t
take Obamacare. Fortunately I don’t have to use it.
Here is my question though, doesn’t the fact that the
federal government wasted a couple billion dollars of your
taxes on websites that don’t work, companies that are paying
workers to do nothing, and companies that are friends with
the First Lady with no bid process in place?
Rory
*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of *Sean Heskett
via Af
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 08, 2014 5:00 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare
Please don't forget that this whole "obamacare" thing was
"invented" by the American Heratage Foundation which is a
republican think tank. And the republicans tried to squash
"Hillarycare" with it in the 1990's.
Be careful what you ask for because you just might get it.
Also, so far in the states that set up their own exchanges
medical costs and premiums have been going down...mine sure
did :)
2cents
Sean
On Wednesday, October 8, 2014, Travis Johnson via Af
<af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:
Hi...
I'm not sure exactly how this ObamaCare thing was supposed
to "save everyone money" and provider "better health care".
We just received our group health insurance premium notice
for the upcoming year, and our rates will go up by 10%
starting 2015.
On top of that, everyone is now paying a 3% ObamaCare tax on
their personal income taxes. This doesn't really seem like
much of a savings to me... :(
Travis
