And we even virtualized that with fantasy :)
On Oct 9, 2014, at 7:18 PM, Bill Prince via Af <af@afmug.com> wrote: > We're OK until we start sending Gladiators into the arena.... > > Oh wait, that's NFL football. > > We're doomed. > > bp > On 10/9/2014 5:13 PM, Bob Hrbek via Af wrote: >> no moral or ethical foundation >> >> This is the demise of every great civilization >> >> Sent from my mobile device. Please excuse my brevity or misspellings. >> >> On Oct 9, 2014, at 4:53 PM, Rory Conaway via Af <af@afmug.com> wrote: >> >>> It can’t if it’s constantly chipped apart from the bottom up. Between >>> continued growth of the welfare state, unchecked immigration and growth of >>> an uneducated population, and lawlessness from the President on down, >>> Capitalism won’t survive. Unfortunately, if it fails, then so does the >>> country and as evidenced by the unchecked growth of evil philosophies such >>> as radical Islam, dictatorships masquerading as Communism, and Communist >>> countries with no moral or ethical foundation, complete anarchy worldwide. >>> Capitalism funds and drives the United States to continue to be a leader in >>> the world. >>> >>> Rory >>> >>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chris Wright via Af >>> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2014 12:58 PM >>> To: af@afmug.com >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare >>> >>> While capitalism may have built the greatest country in the world, some >>> think capitalism cannotsustain the greatest country in the world. >>> >>> Chris Wright >>> Velociter Wireless >>> >>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway via Af >>> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2014 9:47 AM >>> To: af@afmug.com >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare >>> >>> Collin, socialized medicine or socialized anything doesn’t work. What >>> happened to the idea that Capitalism built the greatest country and the >>> greatest health care in the world. Why does everybody forget that and keep >>> wanting to go back to the failed systems in Europe, Socialism, Communism. >>> >>> Costs go up because of attorney’s and the technology behind our health >>> care. If you want cheap health care, get rid of MRI machines, genome >>> cancer treatments, laser surgeries, AiDs drugs, Hepatitis drug research, >>> etc… If all you want is an aspirin and a hug, you keep holding to the idea >>> that socialized medicine is a great idea. >>> >>> Rory >>> >>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince via Af >>> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2014 9:41 AM >>> To: af@afmug.com >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare >>> >>> Amen brother Conlin. >>> >>> The way I see it, the biggest problem is that ObamaCare didn't go far >>> enough. We really, really need to have a system that gets a handle on the >>> costs. The cost to US citizens is more than double the cost to other >>> developed countries. >>> >>> Just peruse this: >>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/26/charts-health-care-costs-americans_n_2957266.html >>> >>> bp >>> On 10/9/2014 5:12 AM, Paul Conlin via Af wrote: >>> What did people expect? Insurance companies are the house. They always >>> make money. By accepting pre-existing conditions everyone else’s premiums >>> go up. By definition. The only way health insurance can work is if it is >>> universal (code for mandatory). Can’t have people who can do math, like >>> Chuck, opting out. Or healthy people saying no. Everyone in. Everyone >>> pays. Spreads out the costs. >>> >>> ObamaCare was never about controlling costs. It was about increasing >>> coverage. More coverage costs more. Why are people surprised at this? If >>> you want to control costs you have to redesign the way money flows. Our >>> system of providers and insurance companies is *designed* to maximize heath >>> costs. It is a positive feedback loop. What is needed is a single payer >>> system, like Canada, where one paying party can have maximum leverage to >>> minimize costs and who has limited ability to raise taxes. It is a proper >>> (negative) feedback system that has inheritably more control. Canada, for >>> the record, is not privatized health care like the VHA. In fact it is the >>> opposite. The Government of Canada purchases all its healthcare from >>> private entities, like Medicare. A fact yet to be discovered by the media >>> in the USA. >>> >>> It is hard to understand why the Republican’s hate ObamaCare since it was >>> mostly their idea. Well, other than ObamaCare was championed by Obama and >>> I guess that is enough reason. The basic concept to use the free market >>> and let industry to its thing is normally what Republican’s want. Not to >>> mention its inherent ability to make more money for insurance companies and >>> private industry. Sure, they are upset that it is being used as a wealth >>> distribution system that makes people with money pay more and people >>> without pay less. Ok, so that is two reasons they hate it. >>> >>> The mistake made, was not implementing a single payer system simultaneously >>> with universal coverage. The CBO calculated the saving from the former >>> would pay for the later resulting in no increase in out-of-pocket costs. >>> Then the other benefits of such a privatized system would start to kick in >>> and the open market competition for services will drive costs down. With >>> health care general health would improve and costs would go down even more. >>> >>> Unfortunately the Government is dysfunctional and has zero chance of >>> overcoming the trillions of dollars companies are making off of the >>> existing out of control health care system. And if they could pass the >>> laws, would anyone trust our Government to run such a program? And there >>> is the root problem. >>> >>> Obviously an over simplification but now back to my real job. >>> >>> PC >>> Blaze Broadband >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway via Af >>> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 12:33 AM >>> To: af@afmug.com >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare >>> >>> People with pre-existing conditions are one of the few groups benefitting >>> from this. >>> >>> Rory >>> >>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy via Af >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2014 7:32 PM >>> To: af@afmug.com >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare >>> >>> We pay about the same as we did but our deductible is lower, our out of >>> pocket max is lower, and they covered our pregnancy. We switched during >>> the first trimester because we didn't have maternity coverage (no >>> self-insured plans in our state had it), and Obamacare made pregnancy not >>> count as a pre-existing condition. It saved us about $7,000-$8,000 this >>> year. The craziest part is that we actually stayed with the same provider, >>> Select Health (IHC). It was just the difference between them providing >>> maternity and not providing maternity. We have been very happy with our >>> Obamacare. >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 6:50 PM, Glen Waldrop via Af <af@afmug.com> wrote: >>> Further the subsidies have been deemed unconstitutional, so they're forcing >>> us to pay insurance with the promise of subsidies that they are now going >>> to take away. >>> >>> Bait and switch. >>> >>> The whole thing has been a screwup from day one. >>> >>> It is actually cheaper for me to pay out of pocket than pay for this >>> insurance, but the fines will get you either way. >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Rory Conaway via Af >>> To: af@afmug.com >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2014 7:03 PM >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare >>> >>> And so did the quality and options of your care. I know that 2 of my >>> doctors retired early and the other one doesn’t take Obamacare. >>> Fortunately I don’t have to use it. >>> >>> Here is my question though, doesn’t the fact that the federal government >>> wasted a couple billion dollars of your taxes on websites that don’t work, >>> companies that are paying workers to do nothing, and companies that are >>> friends with the First Lady with no bid process in place? >>> >>> Rory >>> >>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sean Heskett via Af >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2014 5:00 PM >>> To: af@afmug.com >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare >>> >>> Please don't forget that this whole "obamacare" thing was "invented" by the >>> American Heratage Foundation which is a republican think tank. And the >>> republicans tried to squash "Hillarycare" with it in the 1990's. >>> >>> Be careful what you ask for because you just might get it. >>> >>> Also, so far in the states that set up their own exchanges medical costs >>> and premiums have been going down...mine sure did :) >>> >>> 2cents >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> On Wednesday, October 8, 2014, Travis Johnson via Af <af@afmug.com> wrote: >>> Hi... >>> >>> I'm not sure exactly how this ObamaCare thing was supposed to "save >>> everyone money" and provider "better health care". We just received our >>> group health insurance premium notice for the upcoming year, and our rates >>> will go up by 10% starting 2015. >>> >>> On top of that, everyone is now paying a 3% ObamaCare tax on their personal >>> income taxes. This doesn't really seem like much of a savings to me... :( >>> >>> Travis >>> >>> >>> > >
