No argument but I don�t think the value statement is there, especially
with Ubiquiti and ePMP. At the same time, 802.11ac, MU-MIMO,
Beam-forming, and other features in next generation chipsets may
change the design models we are now discussing. I�m just saying�� J
Rory
*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Gino Villarini
via Af
*Sent:* Sunday, October 19, 2014 9:44 AM
*To:* <af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons
Good to point
Also, to some extent, sync will help you on a environment with lots of
noise from nonsynced operators
Gino A. Villarini
@gvillarini
On Oct 19, 2014, at 12:27 PM, Ken Hohhof via Af <af@afmug.com
<mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:
I think one point Mike is missing is without the WISPs that use
GPS sync sharing frequencies, there wouldn�t be enough spectrum
for the WISPs that don�t.
It�s like someone disputing the value of carpooling because they
drive solo and don�t experience traffic jams. But is that because
other people carpool?
You experience interference in a band with limited spectrum like
900. 2.4 or 3.65, and survey to find who all is using the band.
Some you can coordinate sync with, others you can�t. So you call
up the WISPs you can sync with, coordinate your frequencies and
timing, and let the non-sync guy have a channel to himself. Which
convinces the non-sync guy that the value of GPS sync is a myth.
*From:*Rory Conaway via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent:*Sunday, October 19, 2014 11:03 AM
*To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons
If you don�t have 100% cooperation with GPS sync with competitors
for various reasons, you will have interference. When more
beam-forming options start coming out, GPS might have value on the
same tower, but little value since the trade-off with reduced
throughput isn�t worth it. This is why I don�t like towers in
high-density areas. If I had 12 competitors, I�d have micro-cells
until the equipment catches up with environment which I�m sure is
coming.
Rory
*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mike
Hammett via Af
*Sent:* Sunday, October 19, 2014 8:38 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons
You lost me, Rory...
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Rory Conaway via Af" <af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>>
*To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent: *Sunday, October 19, 2014 10:35:08 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons
Which then makes it not that valuable. I think Beam-Forming has
more value.
Rory
*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mike
Hammett via Af
*Sent:* Sunday, October 19, 2014 8:29 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons
Half or more have the same Canopy settings. The rest are 802.11
based with some cooperating and some not responding to anything.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Rory Conaway via Af" <af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>>
*To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent: *Sunday, October 19, 2014 10:13:45 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons
I�m assuming all 12 WISPs cooperate with each other?
Rory
*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mike
Hammett via Af
*Sent:* Sunday, October 19, 2014 5:33 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons
Entirely not true spoken by a WISP that has up until this point
used Mikrotik and Ubiquiti in rural and suburban markets with 12
WISP competitors.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Mark Radabaugh via Af" <af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>>
*To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent: *Saturday, October 18, 2014 3:52:03 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons
And now your completely out of spectrum and can't deploy anything
new. I suppose the good part for you is nobody else can do
anything given the amount of noise your making.
Mark
On 10/18/14, 1:27 PM, Josh Reynolds via Af wrote:
You just hit the nail on the head why we have never considered
deploying 450 (and similar) in the past:
By the time "you" (relative term) have the cashflow to pay for
those sectors, "we" (another relative term, for people
deploying UBNT or similar) have already thrown up 4-6 shielded
sectors and at least 10 clients per. If we don't think we can
hit a decent sub densityor at least make the site a valuable
repeater, then we don't go there.
Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com <http://www.spitwspots.com>
On 10/18/2014 09:01 AM, Kurt Fankhauser via Af wrote:
I prefer sectors too but math doesnt always work out. I'll
put the omni in to get the site up and once the customers
are there change it to sectors. The 450 platform is very
easy to drop sectors in and have the existing clients link
right up. I have a couple sites with existing customers i
am dropping a two sector 450 system in with 120 segree KP
antennas. cant afford any more sectors than that per site
right now...
Sent from my iPhone
Kurt Fankhauser
Wavelinc Communications
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
http://www.wavelinc.com
tel. 419-562-6405
fax. 419-617-0110
On Oct 18, 2014, at 11:21 AM, Mike Hammett via Af
<af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:
I've noticed a lot of PMP operators are deploying
omnis (presumably because they can't afford 4 APs.
Give me TDMA Atheros with sectors over omnis on
anything any day.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Kurt Fankhauser via Af" <af@afmug.com
<mailto:af@afmug.com>>
*To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent: *Saturday, October 18, 2014 8:38:14 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons
TJ,
No difference between the 3 different frequencies
bands (other than NLOS range) as far as the product
itself they are all the same animal. 2.4ghz NLOS is
slightly better than 3.65ghhz. They all function the
same and have the same expected throughputs per
channel width. They all use the same firmware and i
love the interface being the same across all 3. The
only major difference is the 5ghz is V/H versus slant
on the other two. That just translates to the 5ghz
omni being ALOT smaller and lighter. There are some
places that i wish the 2.4ghz woulda been V/H because
of the omni size but overall I am still very happy
with the 2.4ghz 450.
Kurt Fankhauser
Wavelinc Communications
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
http://www.wavelinc.com <http://www.wavelinc.com/>
tel. 419-562-6405
fax. 419-617-0110
On Sat, Oct 18, 2014 at 4:57 AM, TJ Trout via Af
<af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:
Kurt,
Any pros and cons on 450 between 2ghz, 3.65 and 5?
Any differences at all? Range vs throughput? Obviously
2ghz penetrates better, 3 is licensed and 5 has more
spectrum but anything else? All bands are open for me
Thanks
On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 11:20 PM, Kurt Fankhauser via
Af <af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:
I started the spring deploying 450 in 2.4ghz, 5ghz,
and 3.65ghz and then middle of the summer deciding i
had to"try" some ePMP because the cost was so low I
couldn't resist.... I can say now that I am fairly
certain I will probably stick with the 450. There are
many small reasons that when I considered them all i
came to this conclusion. Here are my reasons:
1. ePMP latency starts to go up quickly once you have
more than 10 clients on an AP. Once you get over 20
clients the latency is pretty much 25-30 ms. Cambium
was honest about this at the road tour and they noted
if you want the best latency to stick with the 450.
2. Sync between the two platforms is not there yet. If
you have adjacent towers on the different platforms
that can see each other you won't have sync.
3. No remote spectrum analyzer for clients. This is
HUGE for when the clients fire up their wireless
camera and baby monitors and trash the whole spectrum.
4.No burst bucket on CPE's
5.EPMP Interface is SLOWWW. Cambium explained at the
tour they were offloading alot of processing power to
the PC you are viewing the interface with and i can't
be taking a quad core machine up a tower to work on
these radios and do site surveys. I am working with a
Panasonic Toughbook and takes FOREVER to log into the
EPMP radios.
6. Fore some reason site surveys are a PITA with ePMP.
Think its a combination of many factors here... slow
interface one of them...
7. EPMP in 5ghz DFS band has really low power output.
Something like 13-14db. When using an omni antenna you
can't get maximum legal EIRP out of the ePMP.
8. 450 link tests and SM modulation is pretty stable
and predictable. EPMP seems like its all over the
place. I don't think I have yet seen EPMP linktest get
full up or down outside of a lab environment.
There might be other reasons but I'm pretty tired and
was heading for bed.
Kurt Fankhauser
Wavelinc Communications
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
http://www.wavelinc.com <http://www.wavelinc.com/>
tel. 419-562-6405 <tel:419-562-6405>
fax. 419-617-0110 <tel:419-617-0110>
On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 5:05 PM, TJ Trout via Af
<af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:
I haven't been keeping real up to date on current
generation ptmp offerings but we have a new site going
up and I need to decide pretty quickly on some
equipment. For the guys who have been using both 450
and epmp do you have any pros and cons ? Any reason to
spend the extra money when epmp seems to have the same
if not better performance , sync, etc?
My gut says 450 is going to be my best long term
solution but with all of the positive epmp feedback
it's hard to justify the extra money?
--
Mark Radabaugh
Amplex
m...@amplex.net <mailto:m...@amplex.net> 419.837.5015 x 1021
