I have a sister that lives in Florida.
Define “fresh” water...
From: Ken Hohhof
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 10:44 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Do you want to see this stuff here?
But from what Paul says, the water table is only down a couple feet!
(Californians, eat your hearts out.) I hope it is fresh not salt water. I
guess this is what happens when your state is like 1 foot above sea level.
From: Bill Prince
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 11:22 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Do you want to see this stuff here?
Even just condensation will build up; even when the tops of the tubes are
capped or sealed. In Florida, you won't get freezing, but the part below the
drain hole will fill with water, and possibly corrode. So it's a good idea to
put the base in a layer of drain rock to ensure the water gets out.
bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
On 6/15/2015 7:36 AM, Paul McCall wrote:
Scratching my head…. WHEN does it do that other than Freezing water, which
we never get?
We do hit water at 2ft. to 2.5 ft of digging, so keeping out of water would
be a challenge J
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 10:22 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Do you want to see this stuff here?
Definitely put 6" of gravel in the bottom and stick the tower into
that.....then pour concrete. Here is an example of what happens when you
don't do that.
On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 7:58 AM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
wrote:
The small hole, as long as it isn't plugged with spiders or something.
On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 8:03 AM, Paul McCall <pa...@pdmnet.net> wrote:
I heard this only recently on the list. I inherited this business in 2000
and that’s just how we did it… legs in concrete and small hole right above the
concrete in each leg.
We have built towers for 15 years and have yet to see any symptoms. We do
regular inspections on towers, but I will look closer at it from here out.
Paul
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 9:01 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Do you want to see this stuff here?
Water isn't supposed to stand in the legs. The legs are supposed to be into a
sand and gravel mix a few inches below where the concrete starts.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest Internet Exchange
http://www.midwest-ix.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 7:57:49 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Do you want to see this stuff here?
That is correct. Water standing in your tower leg will end up rusting the
inside of the legs but that seems to be less an issue than splitting after a
freeze. The galv on a R25G type tower is not a very high quality as they are
price sensitive. When exposed to harsher conditions they will rust. If you need
a better, stronger tower consider the small Trylon solid rod STG or Sabre light
weight tubular towers like the 1200 or 1800 TLWD.
On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 6:07 AM, Paul McCall <pa...@pdmnet.net> wrote:
We drill a tiny hole so water doesn’t build up in the leg.
So I am clear though, you are saying the legs split when they fill up with
water AND then freeze?
Paul
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Lewis Bergman
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2015 11:32 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Do you want to see this stuff here?
They burst just above ground or wherever the waterline is. Split is more like
it. Seen it several times. You have to make sure the legs can drain.
On Jun 14, 2015 10:08 PM, "Paul McCall" <pa...@pdmnet.net> wrote:
How/where do they burst apart?
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Colin Stanners
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2015 10:49 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Do you want to see this stuff here?
I've seen a few tube towers - including a very nice one - bursting apart due
to the customers putting the base right into concrete and not leaving a way for
the water to drip out the bottom.
On Jun 14, 2015 9:18 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
This might not be a concern in Florida or Texas, but if you do it that way in
the north, the legs may burst due to filling with water and then freezing.
Tushar,
We buy Rohn 25G, with a landed cost of about $ 130 per section. Figure $
80 in concrete (probably a little high) and we stick 3 ft. of the first section
in the ground. We do the first piece (dig hole, pour cement) in about 2 hours
times 2 people (on average) then come back in a day after cement hardens and we
stack the other pieces (sometimes 20 ft. at a time, sometimes 30 feet at a
time, but figure another 3 hours on site times 2 guys. That includes
bracketing to the house. However, that part is a big variable though because
of home construction. You shouldn’t just attach to an eve without beefing the
eve up. Rohn also makes various size stand offs that can go to the side of the
house.
So, about 10 hours of labor on averages, and probably $ 650 to $ 750 in
materials for a tower of 37 feet. If your highest attachment point is high
enough and solid, you can stack another 10 foot section
There are some variables in there, but that should give you a decent
estimate.
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Tushar Patel
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2015 6:09 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Do you want to see this stuff here?
I guess we should also look at the tower install too. What is the rough
cost to install 40 feet, Rohn 25?
Tushar
On Jun 14, 2015, at 12:02 PM, Paul McCall <pa...@pdmnet.net> wrote:
Its mostly financial considerations… we do whatever we can (payments,
etc.) to push them that direction. It just makes the most sense.
Paul
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2015 1:00 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Do you want to see this stuff here?
I don’t understand why customers don’t blink an eye signing 2 year
contracts on cellphones and satellite service, but resist investing in a Rohn
tower which is an asset with about a 30 year life and also gives them a place
to mount things like an OTA TV antenna, security cameras, etc. Not sure if
they think it’s ugly, or just don’t make financial decisions for the long term.
From: Paul McCall
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2015 11:34 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Do you want to see this stuff here?
I don’t know comparatively Tushar. We have found that 50mph winds for an
afternoon is all it takes to bend them.
Being on the ocean, we also see them corrode rather quickly. 2 different
brands of poles and within 2 years they are almost unusual, parts break trying
to loosen them to lower them etc. They just don’t last and then whose
responsibility is it to replace them. The customer doesn’t want to pay twice
that’s for sure. The other problem is fine tuning… east/west is OK, but
up/down angle of a dish is a PIA. 320 CPEs are not as bad on a pole for
tuning, but the other issues really hurt us. We would rather try talking the
customer into a Rohn 25 40 feet or a bit more depending on highest building
attachment point so that we are not guyed. Even if we do that at parts / labor
cost, its much better long term, and easy to service the radio. MOST of the
time, we are able to sell that at a $ 500 REAL profit, and a win-win for all
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Tushar Patel
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2015 9:43 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Do you want to see this stuff here?
I agree it is hard to service. Most of the time we have two people to
install but one person to service, some time two. But how is it be different in
Florida than Texas?
We get enough windstorms, we deal with pole bent etc too.
Tushar
On Jun 14, 2015, at 7:22 AM, Paul McCall <pa...@pdmnet.net> wrote:
Push up poles in Florida is a nightmare waiting to happen. We learned
that the hard way. Even with guy wires. And, a pain to service. Kinda fits
your description of NLOS customers below.
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Tushar Patel
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2015 11:52 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Do you want to see this stuff here?
Your point on sector efficiency is the reason we no longer like NLOS
installs. Yes you may gain few customer with little less effort but in long run
it hurts. We try to install 40 to 50 feet push-up poles and get better line of
sight.
Tushar
On Jun 13, 2015, at 10:44 PM, George Skorup <geo...@cbcast.com> wrote:
That's great that it works. I'm sure the Telrad stuff and other gear
like it is excellent. For me, it's too expensive. Every way I run the numbers,
I'm looking at 16-18 months for break-even. And that's not including all of the
extra stuff required for a large scale deployment.
If I can't get 25-30 users per sector, the site is too small to
deploy it. If I'm running a bunch of NLOS customers (which we would since we're
about 55% 900MHz), lots of low modulation users really sucks for sector
capacity. And those NLOS shots, like Ken says, will they continue to work? When
the trees are soaked, covered in ice, etc., does it go to shit and I have to
listen to customers bitching because they were getting 20+Mbps and now get
<5Mbps? Which again is a hit on sector efficiency.
On 6/13/2015 8:48 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
One thing I experienced with 3.65 GHz WiMAX was an install that
turned out to work only because of signal bouncing off the tall tree leaves,
and stopped working in November when the leaves went away. We should have been
suspicious when aligning for best signal actually had the CPE pointed up at
about a 30 degree angle.
I have seen something similar with 900 MHz.
From: TJ Trout
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2015 8:15 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Do you want to see this stuff here?
How does LTE penetrate hills? This is the second or third "through
a hill" story in the last week?
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 3:50 PM, Patrick Leary
<patrick.le...@telrad.com> wrote:
RSRP, it is a measurement. It is a truer number than RSSI, which is
only an estimate (so I'm told). As Ken said, basically add 30 to get an idea of
the RSSI value.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
On Jun 13, 2015 5:36 PM, Mathew Howard <mhoward...@gmail.com> wrote:
Yeah... something like that. Notice that is -108 CINR, not RSSI,
like the numbers we're all used to.
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 4:27 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
I think Patrick said to add 30 dB to Telrad signal numbers because
they were “per subcarrier” or something?
From: Colin Stanners
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2015 4:17 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Do you want to see this stuff here?
Patrick, I haven't been following Telrad but that's too incredible
- I can't see how -108, which is below the noise floor for any reasonable
channel bandwidth (20mhz+?) could get any reasonable speed, much less those.
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 3:57 PM, Patrick Leary
<patrick.le...@telrad.com> wrote:
Should I resist sharing this sort of thing? If it's out of line,
let me know Chuck.
<mime-attachment.png>
-----Original Message-----
From: telrad-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:telrad-boun...@wispa.org]
On Behalf Of Steve Discher
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2015 7:51 PM
To: tel...@wispa.org
Subject: [Telrad] Another Telrad success story
Not to flood the list with these but Zirkel is having great
results.
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