When I was interviewed by Tornillo superintendent for my old IT gig he asked me what triggered WWI...I replied ..it took off after the duke was assassinated .....he was impressed that I focused on trigger and not all the other underlying things at play. All this reminds me of an interview Dick Cavett had with someone I can't remember used the term malum in se....Cavett explained it as evil for the sake of evil. Legal folks use it differently but I use it as Cavett explained it. I pray for our planet.. On Nov 16, 2015 5:45 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
> In the end, everyone on this list wants the same thing. Peace. > > Another good book to read is “The Looming Tower”. > > It explains how we got an Egyptian religious scholar being insulted by a > girl (in Colorado if I remember correctly perhaps in the 1950s) directly to > 9-11. > > Truly “butterfly effect” type of stuff. Both that and the curveball > story. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Looming_Tower > > We can blame politicians but there are these other factors at work as > well. > Just like how WW1 got started. > > *From:* Jaime Solorza <losguyswirel...@gmail.com> > *Sent:* Monday, November 16, 2015 5:39 PM > *To:* Animal Farm <af@afmug.com> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG][WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis français > > > Good points Patrick and Faisal... Let me guess ...both of you have > travelled all over. I have been fortunate to travel and work with many > international folks throughout my life. Best thing my dad taught besides > us jujitsu was to learn and respect other cultures. He advised us to > learn more than English and Spanish...said world is getting smaller.. He > recommended Japanese or Mandarin. This was in the late 60's...then again I > was fortunate to study with the Jesuits in the early 70s...learned to be a > critical thinker plus even though it was a Roman Catholic school it had > more Jewish students than Protestant or Catholics...quality of education > was key. Anyways I made life long friends from different faiths which have > enriched my life. Then college.... Eyes opened to many cultures and > ideas. At 60 I am still learning.... I consider myself truly blessed.... > On Nov 16, 2015 5:20 PM, "Faisal Imtiaz" <fai...@snappytelecom.net> wrote: > >> Yes, but you are forgetting the little fact..... Germany and Japan were >> 'easier' to change because they were both 'Kingdoms', so the argument of >> Democracy is a better way was sell-able....(sorry if I am making words >> here). >> >> In the Middle East, we come across as talking from both sides of our >> mouths, How do you sell Democracy while supporting Dictators and Kings.... >> the only thing visible to everyone is 'Hippocracy' along with $$$ being >> dangled in-front of them... they shut-up and take the $$$ obviously... >> >> Faisal Imtiaz >> Snappy Internet & Telecom >> 7266 SW 48 Street >> Miami, FL 33155 >> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 >> >> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From: *"Rory Conaway" <r...@triadwireless.net> >> *To: *af@afmug.com >> *Sent: *Monday, November 16, 2015 7:04:32 PM >> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis >> français >> >> Changing a country is possible, we did it in Germany and Japan. In the >> Middle East, it is possible, it just takes a lot more effort and time. You >> have to change the mind-set of the country, not just it’s leaders. And if >> you fail, you try something different the second time and do it again. I >> believe it’s possible, just not with the government we elected. It would >> take someone with vision and an 8 year plan because our populace is simply >> too ignorant and selfish to grasp the enormity of the effort. >> >> >> >> Rory >> >> >> >> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick Leary >> *Sent:* Monday, November 16, 2015 4:55 PM >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis >> français >> >> >> >> "If we do it right, Democracy thrives..." >> >> >> >> The ultimate in wishful and naive thinking, the thought that every >> country can (or even wants to) have a government like ours. Never mind >> there's not a shred of evidence for this in the entire recorded history of >> the Middle East...but hey, it fits your narrative that it's all Obama's >> fault. >> >> >> >> Patrick >> >> On Nov 16, 2015 6:25 PM, Rory Conaway <r...@triadwireless.net> wrote: >> >> We installed a dictator and we let him act like a dictator. In Iraq, we >> installed a Democracy but we left it in the hands of ideologues. We also >> alienated the military and just dumped everyone out. If we do it right, >> Democracy thrives, we have a Middle Eastern ally and we hold influence >> meaning our allies still trust us. We cut and ran for politics. >> >> >> >> Rory >> >> >> >> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On >> Behalf Of *Sean Heskett >> *Sent:* Monday, November 16, 2015 4:22 PM >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis >> français >> >> >> >> Rory, we already tried that strategy with Iran...the puppet government >> that we instilled for over a generation was overthrown and we now have an >> Iran that is governed as a theocratic Islamic republic :-/ >> >> >> >> 2 cents >> >> >> >> -sean >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 4:11 PM, Rory Conaway <r...@triadwireless.net> >> wrote: >> >> Sean, I’d love to take the bait but I can’t even think of something >> smarmy to say with the devastation in Paris hours after our President says >> that ISIS was contained. It’s a very sad moment. Unfortunately, when you >> add in the millions who are now homeless, displaced, and dead, because our >> governmental leaders, and by extension, the voters that put them in power, >> I think that uneducated should also mean putting ideology in front of >> common sense and the lessons of history. Iraq needed a heavy glove until >> a satisfactory government structure that could be put in place over a >> generation or more, until the hatred of the current generation was phased >> out and a better society with more opportunity and education was put in >> place. This wasn’t going to happen in an election cycle, especially with >> the differences between the parties. >> >> >> >> Rory >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Sean Heskett >> *Sent:* Monday, November 16, 2015 3:55 PM >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis >> français >> >> >> >> <sarcasm> >> >> yes it is usually very hard to argue logic with republicans ;-) >> >> >> >> "It’s very hard to argue logic with people who are uneducated, poor, and >> have been indoctrinated from birth to an ideology." >> >> >> >> </sarcasm> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 3:45 PM, Rory Conaway <r...@triadwireless.net> >> wrote: >> >> If we are up front about it, Germany, Japan, etc…, it seems to work. But >> we installed Democracies there with people who didn’t put ideology in front >> of the rule of law. In the Middle East, ideology is the rule of law. It’s >> very hard to argue logic with people who are uneducated, poor, and have >> been indoctrinated from birth to an ideology. >> >> >> >> Rory >> >> >> >> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard >> *Sent:* Monday, November 16, 2015 1:04 PM >> *To:* af <af@afmug.com> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis >> français >> >> >> >> It seems to have worked okay in Germany and Japan... but that was a bit >> different. otherwise, I can't think of a case where it really ever has >> worked. >> >> >> >> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 1:49 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: >> >> My simple mind concludes whenever we go somewhere and attempt to alter >> the political landscape by force or dirty tricks it always makes things >> worse in the long run. Has it ever worked? >> >> >> >> When the people decide to change their situation then there is sometimes >> lasting change. >> >> >> >> *From:* Faisal Imtiaz <fai...@snappytelecom.net> >> >> *Sent:* Monday, November 16, 2015 12:38 PM >> >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis >> français >> >> >> >> I think you all are missing the point.... When it comes to foreign >> policy it is done with all sides involved, along with the give and take, >> when things go right, everyone stands up and says 'We did it".... when >> something goes wrong, everyone stands up and says.. "He or She did it", and >> "I told you so otherwise". >> >> >> >> Excuse the language but ... 'We have been F**ing in other Gov. affairs, >> known and unknown for a very long time, and the results of such have >> consequences which linger for a very long time..'.... It is easy to play >> armchair political analysts with a short term view, but the picture changes >> when the view expands with History..." >> >> >> >> case and point... How many here know and realize what is the cause of US >> Iran's rocky relationship..... ? >> >> >> >> The roots of this is traced back to actions in the 1950's .... >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'%C3%A9tat >> >> (read the first sentence carefully, and then think of how you can have a >> conversation with them about democracy ) >> >> >> >> While we is the west tend not to have long memories, and stay awake >> during History Classes, those affected, tend not to forget ! >> >> >> >> >> >> Iraq is a similar deal...that country has Shia majority.... so it is very >> likely that any Democratically elected gov will be tilted towards the >> Shia's, that is not something US & Britain are in favor off, nor the >> regional Arab dictatorships... thus the status quo.... >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Regards >> >> >> >> Faisal Imtiaz >> Snappy Internet & Telecom >> 7266 SW 48 Street >> Miami, FL 33155 >> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 >> >> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From: *"Jeff Broadwick - Lists" <jeffl...@att.net> >> *To: *af@afmug.com >> *Sent: *Monday, November 16, 2015 2:00:53 PM >> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis >> français >> >> There are a number of actions, under a pretty wide set of circumstances, >> where the US President can act without Congressional approval. All >> Presidents push the boundaries. No one really wants to test the >> Constitutionality of the War Powers Act (it's likely unconstitutional). >> >> Jeff Broadwick >> >> ConVergence Technologies, Inc. >> >> 312-205-2519 Office >> >> 574-220-7826 Cell >> >> jbroadw...@converge-tech.com >> >> >> On Nov 16, 2015, at 1:47 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <fai...@snappytelecom.net> >> wrote: >> >> You are half correct. There a number of small facts that you have missed, >> but if you follow the explanation, rightfully so. >> >> >> >> News organizations are in the business of making $. The only report what >> they can sell in that particular market. e.g CNN supplies news feeds to the >> world, it's just not the same news feed that they supply to everyone. News >> feed, for the US is very different what they supply to their 'international >> customers' >> >> >> >> This is true for all of the news broadcasters. >> >> BTW, Al Jazeera has been kicked out of many 'Muslim' countries due to >> their coverage and reporting. >> >> BBC is commissioned by Her Majesty, as such the loyalty to the British >> Empire... >> >> >> >> Here is the part that I don't understand...... >> >> >> >> Everything that I know about the US Gov. System, when it comes to >> foreign policy the President cannot take uni-lateral action...it has to >> have the Congress's blessing.. >> >> So why is it when one is talking about the US's actions, everyone refers >> to it as if the US President is acting like any of the other dictators. >> >> >> >> Is is just a way to dump on a President cause he or she is from the other >> party ? >> >> >> >> Last time I checked, irrespective of all the rhetoric from Washington, >> all parties were equally responsible for participating in actions which >> have lead to Foreign Policy failure after failure... >> >> >> >> Regards. >> >> >> >> >> >> Faisal Imtiaz >> Snappy Internet & Telecom >> 7266 SW 48 Street >> Miami, FL 33155 >> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 >> >> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net >> <supp...@snappytelecom.net> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From: *"Rory Conaway" <r...@triadwireless.net> >> *To: *af@afmug.com >> *Sent: *Monday, November 16, 2015 12:44:40 PM >> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis >> français >> >> News as a disinterested third party, is pretty much dead. All news >> organizations have a political leaning including BBC, Al Jazeera, and NPR. >> In many cases it’s not what they report, it’s what they fail to report that >> is just as bad or worse. BBC rarely reports anything negative about the >> British Government and is as bad as the New York Times about not reporting >> anything negative about a Democrat. Of course both of them do it, but the >> amount of time or the amount of resources will be far less than the >> opposite side of the side of the issue. Al Jazeera never reports anything >> bad about the Muslim or Islamic faith and NPR is almost as bad as the BBC >> when it comes to never saying anything about a liberal government. I think >> NBC, CBS, and ABC have the same advisor telling them what negative >> information not to report on Obama for example. As for NPR, they lost all >> credibility with me when they fired Juan Williams because he said something >> their management didn’t like and he is a huge liberal. >> >> >> >> There is an argument now that Google can pretty much influence an >> election by a huge amount by pushing positive news information in their >> search engine about their liberal candidate up while simultaneously doing >> the same thing in a negative light towards a Conservative candidate. >> >> >> >> At this point, it’s pretty much up to us to watch news organizations from >> both sides of the aisle and try to sort out the truth. >> >> >> >> Rory >> >> >> >> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On >> Behalf Of *Paul McCall >> *Sent:* Monday, November 16, 2015 8:11 AM >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis >> français >> >> >> >> +1. Since we have a pretty good idea of what slant that CNN and Foxnews >> will put on things without looking, respectively, I just glance at that >> both once in a while. BBC is a good choice. >> >> >> >> Paul >> >> >> >> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On >> Behalf Of *Chuck McCown >> *Sent:* Monday, November 16, 2015 9:34 AM >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis >> français >> >> >> >> BBC is good. Al Jazeera is surprisingly informative and seems to lack >> spin. >> >> I listen to NPR continually. >> >> >> >> Card carrying GOP but am truly libertarian, cannot vote demo primarily >> due to guns and the abortion issue. >> >> >> >> Fox news is like eating a whole bag of halloween candy. After watching >> fox I have to watch some Rachael Maddow to be able to drive straight again. >> >> (In reality, I avoid TV news. Radio and Google News is were most of my >> disinformation comes from). >> >> >> >> I don’t like apologists, religious or otherwise. I like the best truths >> I can find. >> >> I really hate partisan politics. Blood sport all based on pride and self >> aggrandizement. Does nothing for the people. >> >> >> >> *From:* Glen Waldrop <gwl...@cngwireless.net> >> >> *Sent:* Monday, November 16, 2015 7:20 AM >> >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG][WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis >> français >> >> >> >> You're right on one thing, politics is not as cut and dried as all of >> that. >> >> Obama is a jackass. >> >> Fox news is far from perfect. >> >> As a businessman though I recommend not calling your potential customers >> dumb though. Fox may be a group of liars, but at this point in time they >> are the least biased news source in the US (50% biased vs 100%). Pretty >> much all of the rest of them are brown nosing the left so bad I can't see >> how they haven't suffocated themselves. >> >> When I want news with little BS I tend to lean towards BBC myself. >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> *From:* Patrick Leary <patrick.le...@telrad.com> >> >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> >> *Sent:* Monday, November 16, 2015 7:24 AM >> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG][WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis >> français >> >> >> >> The world is such a simple place when everything is Obama’s fault. >> >> >> >> Somebody smashes a glass to the ground. 12 years later, people blinded by >> partisanship blame the person who tried to glue some of the pieces back >> together, but the glass still won’t hold water so it must be his fault. >> Extremely disordered cognitive functioning. >> >> >> >> …Never mind the real subtleties all the “informed” people on the Right >> seem to forget, chief among them that the IRAQI POLITICIANS SAID THE ONLY >> WAY WE COULD KEEP OUR TROOPS IN COUNTRY WAS TO REMOVE THEIR IMMUNITY AND >> MAKE THEM SUBJECT TO LIABILITY AND PROSECUTION. No one on this side of the >> pond wanted that, from the DoD to BOTH parties. Of course, FOX viewers >> either are too dumb to know this or intentionally pretend that was not the >> reality, in order to take yet another “it’s Obama’s fault” grade school >> insult. It’s just way more satisfying or simpler for their juvenile world >> view to believe “it’s Obama’s fault!” What, are you 10 years old? >> >> >> >> >> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/05/world/middleeast/iraqis-say-no-to-immunity-for-remaining-american-troops.html?_r=0 >> >> >> >> People really need to educate themselves before spewing childish partisan >> memes. >> >> >> >> Patrick >> >> >> >> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On >> Behalf Of *Rory Conaway >> *Sent:* Sunday, November 15, 2015 8:53 AM >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis >> français >> >> >> >> We had our chance to stop it in Iraq, we cut and run. >> >> >> >> And you are right, we didn’t do the right bombing in Vietnam to stop that >> war. And what Ford did at the end is the lesson Obama should have learned >> which could have prevented much of what happened in the Middle East >> including ISIS. Apparently they didn’t teach history to at Harvard. >> Imagine the influence a multi-cultural and stable Iraqi government would >> have had on the region. >> >> >> >> Rory >> >> >> >> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On >> Behalf Of *Lewis Bergman >> *Sent:* Sunday, November 15, 2015 6:31 AM >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis >> français >> >> >> >> Collateral damage is highly underrated. Vietnam had no wholesale bombing >> like WWII. that is one reason Vietnam, and the rest of these conflicts, >> last so long. >> The horror of war has to be brought to everyone, including those making >> the decisions, to bring it to an end. >> >> But having said that, this Muslim extremists movement has been been going >> on for about 700 years so it may be to much to expect to be out of war >> again. There may be a lull, but I think the entire world has been drawn >> into the middle East quagmire. >> >> The primary cause damn sure isn't a two degrees warming tend in a couple >> decades. >> >> >> >> On Sun, Nov 15, 2015, 7:05 AM Rory Conaway <r...@triadwireless.net> >> wrote: >> >> The problem is that they are basically imbedded with civilians. How do >> you kill them without taking out everyone else. That is the problem we >> have had all along. Door-to-door warfare is all that you can do but it’s >> also the most dangerous for our soldiers and nobody is going to allow >> wholesale bombing like Nixon did in Vietnam. >> >> >> >> We also burned a lot of good will in all the countries we need to do this >> with when we got the local civilians to act as translators and informants >> and abandoned them after the war, the highest profile of them the doctor in >> Pakistan. Even he is still in jail years later but the reality is, nobody >> trusts us any more in those regions. We are not a reliable ally. >> >> >> >> Rory >> >> >> >> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza >> *Sent:* Saturday, November 14, 2015 11:06 AM >> *To:* Animal Farm <af@afmug.com> >> >> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis >> français >> >> >> >> as much as i hate war and killing....I agree we need to make a parking >> lot out of them... >> >> >> Jaime Solorza >> >> Wireless Systems Architect >> >> 915-861-1390 >> >> >> >> On Sat, Nov 14, 2015 at 10:42 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: >> >> The more of this that happens, the more the rest of the world will unite >> to rub them out. I am a hopeless optimist. >> >> >> >> *From:* Jaime Solorza <losguyswirel...@gmail.com> >> >> *Sent:* Saturday, November 14, 2015 7:52 AM >> >> *To:* Animal Farm <af@afmug.com> >> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG][WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis >> français >> >> >> >> Yes. I am praying for them and the world. What a tragedy.. It is beyond >> barbaric..its evil for the sake of evil. >> >> Jaime Solorza >> >> On Nov 13, 2015 10:15 PM, "Faisal Imtiaz" <fai...@snappytelecom.net> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Oui , et pas seulement cela , nos cœurs et nos prières pour tous ceux qui >> sont touchés par cette Sensless actes brabaric . >> >> >> >> Faisal Imtiaz >> >> Snappy Internet & Telecom >> 7266 SW 48 Street >> Miami, FL 33155 >> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 <305%20663%205518%20x%20232> >> >> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From: *"Patrick Leary" <patrick.le...@telrad.com> >> *To: *"WISPA General List" <wirel...@wispa.org>, "Telrad List" < >> tel...@wispa.org>, af@afmug.com, memb...@canwisp.ca >> *Sent: *Friday, November 13, 2015 7:46:29 PM >> *Subject: *[WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis français >> >> Tonght, chaque personne libre est un Parisien. >> >> >> >> Patrick Leary >> >> Telrad >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ************************************************************************************ >> This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by >> PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & >> computer viruses. >> >> ************************************************************************************ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wireless mailing list >> wirel...@wispa.org >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ************************************************************************************ >> This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by >> PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & >> computer viruses. >> >> ************************************************************************************ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ************************************************************************************ >> This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by >> PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & >> computer viruses. >> >> ************************************************************************************ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ************************************************************************************ >> This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by >> PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & >> computer viruses. >> >> ************************************************************************************ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ************************************************************************************ >> This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by >> PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & >> computer viruses. >> >> ************************************************************************************ >> >>
