"Unfortunately, when you add in the millions who are now homeless, displaced, and dead, because our governmental leaders, and by extension, the voters that put them in power"
Lets be clear. Nothing we vote for over here is the PRIMARY cause of what goes on over there. No doubt we have historically aggravated it, but we didn't CAUSE it. Seriously Jaime? Nobody has tried to impeach Obama like they did Clinton. The GOP drug that guy through tons of crap and I think history will say he did a pretty decent job. Washington probably got some splinters from the false teeth in the you know where in what was then the equivalent to the Oval Office. Not perfect but I can't think of a single president, Reagan included, that has done everything how I would want him to. I'll bet none of you could. And of course we would all likely name someone different if we were asked who came closest. Surely nobody on this list thinks that any president from either party has done a great job in the last 75 years or so. And I seriously mean that. On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 5:32 PM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com> wrote: > A difference of opinion doesn't equate to ignorance. > Just because you disagree with me doesn't make you stupid, it just makes > you wrong. :) > I am a pragmatist. I favor actions that actually work instead of ones that > should work. I try many things that should work but don't. Both sides of > the political spectrum continue to try policies that should work but don't. > Both sides continue to try defend them by saying we just didn't go far or > long enough to make them work. > > The issue with ISIS is there is no middle ground. Unless you are willing > to swear allegiance to their view of their religion you have two options to > satisfy them. Kill yourself or be killed by them. Kind of a bummer to > negotiate that. > > How many people are we willing to kill indiscriminately to attempt to > prevent those people or those who sympathize with them from attempting to > kill us? What is an acceptable level of violence to tolerate to balance an > acceptable level of freedom? Jesus said turn the other cheek. The caliphate > didn't exist when he said that since they would have not only hit the other > cheek but drug him into the street and stoned him. I am not saying he > wouldn't have still said it, just that non violence only works in the > "civilized" world. The Brits wouldn't stand by while they read about their > government massacring hundreds of peaceful Indians while I doubt ISIS > wouldn't do anything but cheer as was mentioned in a story today justifying > the killing of Jews due to the fact that some might have slipped onto > Mosque grounds and prayed. > > Anyway, there is no civilized solution to the Muslim extremist problem. > Well, none that in general, Western Civilization would rally behind until > at least as many of us die as them. I favor the unthinkable on a smaller > scale now than they unimaginable on a larger scale much later. On this I > circle back to my first point. When you and I disagree that does not make > you stupid. When you and I disagree about me either living and believing > what you want or I have to do die, I would have to disagree in a more > forceful manner. A manner more in keeping with your desire to eliminate me > and everyone like me from the planet. > > Primarily I love peace. I think we should kill everyone who wants to > disturb my enjoyment of it. Smiley face -> =) > > On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 5:06 PM, Jaime Solorza <losguyswirel...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Easy to paint with broad brush...yes some are uneducated... Many are >> poor...but to think they are all dumb is wrong..bin laden was >> engineer...others were/are doctors scientist etc. Fanatical thinking >> doesn't discriminate. Trump is an intelligent man with extreme views.... >> Fanatical... I think he is an idiot and liar (99% of politicians are) but I >> don't want to kill him or have anyone else kill him. He has an ideology. >> There is no one fits all theory. BTW they invented algebra.. >> Demented people are hard to predict....like I said no easy answers... >> >> If we are up front about it, Germany, Japan, etc…, it seems to work. But >> we installed Democracies there with people who didn’t put ideology in front >> of the rule of law. In the Middle East, ideology is the rule of law. It’s >> very hard to argue logic with people who are uneducated, poor, and have >> been indoctrinated from birth to an ideology. >> >> >> >> Rory >> >> >> >> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard >> *Sent:* Monday, November 16, 2015 1:04 PM >> *To:* af <af@afmug.com> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis >> français >> >> >> >> It seems to have worked okay in Germany and Japan... but that was a bit >> different. otherwise, I can't think of a case where it really ever has >> worked. >> >> >> >> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 1:49 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: >> >> My simple mind concludes whenever we go somewhere and attempt to alter >> the political landscape by force or dirty tricks it always makes things >> worse in the long run. Has it ever worked? >> >> >> >> When the people decide to change their situation then there is sometimes >> lasting change. >> >> >> >> *From:* Faisal Imtiaz <fai...@snappytelecom.net> >> >> *Sent:* Monday, November 16, 2015 12:38 PM >> >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis >> français >> >> >> >> I think you all are missing the point.... When it comes to foreign >> policy it is done with all sides involved, along with the give and take, >> when things go right, everyone stands up and says 'We did it".... when >> something goes wrong, everyone stands up and says.. "He or She did it", and >> "I told you so otherwise". >> >> >> >> Excuse the language but ... 'We have been F**ing in other Gov. affairs, >> known and unknown for a very long time, and the results of such have >> consequences which linger for a very long time..'.... It is easy to play >> armchair political analysts with a short term view, but the picture changes >> when the view expands with History..." >> >> >> >> case and point... How many here know and realize what is the cause of US >> Iran's rocky relationship..... ? >> >> >> >> The roots of this is traced back to actions in the 1950's .... >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'%C3%A9tat >> >> (read the first sentence carefully, and then think of how you can have a >> conversation with them about democracy ) >> >> >> >> While we is the west tend not to have long memories, and stay awake >> during History Classes, those affected, tend not to forget ! >> >> >> >> >> >> Iraq is a similar deal...that country has Shia majority.... so it is very >> likely that any Democratically elected gov will be tilted towards the >> Shia's, that is not something US & Britain are in favor off, nor the >> regional Arab dictatorships... thus the status quo.... >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Regards >> >> >> >> Faisal Imtiaz >> Snappy Internet & Telecom >> 7266 SW 48 Street >> Miami, FL 33155 >> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 >> >> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From: *"Jeff Broadwick - Lists" <jeffl...@att.net> >> *To: *af@afmug.com >> *Sent: *Monday, November 16, 2015 2:00:53 PM >> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis >> français >> >> There are a number of actions, under a pretty wide set of circumstances, >> where the US President can act without Congressional approval. All >> Presidents push the boundaries. No one really wants to test the >> Constitutionality of the War Powers Act (it's likely unconstitutional). >> >> Jeff Broadwick >> >> ConVergence Technologies, Inc. >> >> 312-205-2519 Office >> >> 574-220-7826 Cell >> >> jbroadw...@converge-tech.com >> >> >> On Nov 16, 2015, at 1:47 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <fai...@snappytelecom.net> >> wrote: >> >> You are half correct. There a number of small facts that you have missed, >> but if you follow the explanation, rightfully so. >> >> >> >> News organizations are in the business of making $. The only report what >> they can sell in that particular market. e.g CNN supplies news feeds to the >> world, it's just not the same news feed that they supply to everyone. News >> feed, for the US is very different what they supply to their 'international >> customers' >> >> >> >> This is true for all of the news broadcasters. >> >> BTW, Al Jazeera has been kicked out of many 'Muslim' countries due to >> their coverage and reporting. >> >> BBC is commissioned by Her Majesty, as such the loyalty to the British >> Empire... >> >> >> >> Here is the part that I don't understand...... >> >> >> >> Everything that I know about the US Gov. System, when it comes to >> foreign policy the President cannot take uni-lateral action...it has to >> have the Congress's blessing.. >> >> So why is it when one is talking about the US's actions, everyone refers >> to it as if the US President is acting like any of the other dictators. >> >> >> >> Is is just a way to dump on a President cause he or she is from the other >> party ? >> >> >> >> Last time I checked, irrespective of all the rhetoric from Washington, >> all parties were equally responsible for participating in actions which >> have lead to Foreign Policy failure after failure... >> >> >> >> Regards. >> >> >> >> >> >> Faisal Imtiaz >> Snappy Internet & Telecom >> 7266 SW 48 Street >> Miami, FL 33155 >> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 >> >> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net >> <supp...@snappytelecom.net> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From: *"Rory Conaway" <r...@triadwireless.net> >> *To: *af@afmug.com >> *Sent: *Monday, November 16, 2015 12:44:40 PM >> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis >> français >> >> News as a disinterested third party, is pretty much dead. All news >> organizations have a political leaning including BBC, Al Jazeera, and NPR. >> In many cases it’s not what they report, it’s what they fail to report that >> is just as bad or worse. BBC rarely reports anything negative about the >> British Government and is as bad as the New York Times about not reporting >> anything negative about a Democrat. Of course both of them do it, but the >> amount of time or the amount of resources will be far less than the >> opposite side of the side of the issue. Al Jazeera never reports anything >> bad about the Muslim or Islamic faith and NPR is almost as bad as the BBC >> when it comes to never saying anything about a liberal government. I think >> NBC, CBS, and ABC have the same advisor telling them what negative >> information not to report on Obama for example. As for NPR, they lost all >> credibility with me when they fired Juan Williams because he said something >> their management didn’t like and he is a huge liberal. >> >> >> >> There is an argument now that Google can pretty much influence an >> election by a huge amount by pushing positive news information in their >> search engine about their liberal candidate up while simultaneously doing >> the same thing in a negative light towards a Conservative candidate. >> >> >> >> At this point, it’s pretty much up to us to watch news organizations from >> both sides of the aisle and try to sort out the truth. >> >> >> >> Rory >> >> >> >> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On >> Behalf Of *Paul McCall >> *Sent:* Monday, November 16, 2015 8:11 AM >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis >> français >> >> >> >> +1. Since we have a pretty good idea of what slant that CNN and Foxnews >> will put on things without looking, respectively, I just glance at that >> both once in a while. BBC is a good choice. >> >> >> >> Paul >> >> >> >> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On >> Behalf Of *Chuck McCown >> *Sent:* Monday, November 16, 2015 9:34 AM >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis >> français >> >> >> >> BBC is good. Al Jazeera is surprisingly informative and seems to lack >> spin. >> >> I listen to NPR continually. >> >> >> >> Card carrying GOP but am truly libertarian, cannot vote demo primarily >> due to guns and the abortion issue. >> >> >> >> Fox news is like eating a whole bag of halloween candy. After watching >> fox I have to watch some Rachael Maddow to be able to drive straight again. >> >> (In reality, I avoid TV news. Radio and Google News is were most of my >> disinformation comes from). >> >> >> >> I don’t like apologists, religious or otherwise. I like the best truths >> I can find. >> >> I really hate partisan politics. Blood sport all based on pride and self >> aggrandizement. Does nothing for the people. >> >> >> >> *From:* Glen Waldrop <gwl...@cngwireless.net> >> >> *Sent:* Monday, November 16, 2015 7:20 AM >> >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG][WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis >> français >> >> >> >> You're right on one thing, politics is not as cut and dried as all of >> that. >> >> Obama is a jackass. >> >> Fox news is far from perfect. >> >> As a businessman though I recommend not calling your potential customers >> dumb though. Fox may be a group of liars, but at this point in time they >> are the least biased news source in the US (50% biased vs 100%). Pretty >> much all of the rest of them are brown nosing the left so bad I can't see >> how they haven't suffocated themselves. >> >> When I want news with little BS I tend to lean towards BBC myself. >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> *From:* Patrick Leary <patrick.le...@telrad.com> >> >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> >> *Sent:* Monday, November 16, 2015 7:24 AM >> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG][WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis >> français >> >> >> >> The world is such a simple place when everything is Obama’s fault. >> >> >> >> Somebody smashes a glass to the ground. 12 years later, people blinded by >> partisanship blame the person who tried to glue some of the pieces back >> together, but the glass still won’t hold water so it must be his fault. >> Extremely disordered cognitive functioning. >> >> >> >> …Never mind the real subtleties all the “informed” people on the Right >> seem to forget, chief among them that the IRAQI POLITICIANS SAID THE ONLY >> WAY WE COULD KEEP OUR TROOPS IN COUNTRY WAS TO REMOVE THEIR IMMUNITY AND >> MAKE THEM SUBJECT TO LIABILITY AND PROSECUTION. No one on this side of the >> pond wanted that, from the DoD to BOTH parties. Of course, FOX viewers >> either are too dumb to know this or intentionally pretend that was not the >> reality, in order to take yet another “it’s Obama’s fault” grade school >> insult. It’s just way more satisfying or simpler for their juvenile world >> view to believe “it’s Obama’s fault!” What, are you 10 years old? >> >> >> >> >> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/05/world/middleeast/iraqis-say-no-to-immunity-for-remaining-american-troops.html?_r=0 >> >> >> >> People really need to educate themselves before spewing childish partisan >> memes. >> >> >> >> Patrick >> >> >> >> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On >> Behalf Of *Rory Conaway >> *Sent:* Sunday, November 15, 2015 8:53 AM >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis >> français >> >> >> >> We had our chance to stop it in Iraq, we cut and run. >> >> >> >> And you are right, we didn’t do the right bombing in Vietnam to stop that >> war. And what Ford did at the end is the lesson Obama should have learned >> which could have prevented much of what happened in the Middle East >> including ISIS. Apparently they didn’t teach history to at Harvard. >> Imagine the influence a multi-cultural and stable Iraqi government would >> have had on the region. >> >> >> >> Rory >> >> >> >> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On >> Behalf Of *Lewis Bergman >> *Sent:* Sunday, November 15, 2015 6:31 AM >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis >> français >> >> >> >> Collateral damage is highly underrated. Vietnam had no wholesale bombing >> like WWII. that is one reason Vietnam, and the rest of these conflicts, >> last so long. >> The horror of war has to be brought to everyone, including those making >> the decisions, to bring it to an end. >> >> But having said that, this Muslim extremists movement has been been going >> on for about 700 years so it may be to much to expect to be out of war >> again. There may be a lull, but I think the entire world has been drawn >> into the middle East quagmire. >> >> The primary cause damn sure isn't a two degrees warming tend in a couple >> decades. >> >> >> >> On Sun, Nov 15, 2015, 7:05 AM Rory Conaway <r...@triadwireless.net> >> wrote: >> >> The problem is that they are basically imbedded with civilians. How do >> you kill them without taking out everyone else. That is the problem we >> have had all along. Door-to-door warfare is all that you can do but it’s >> also the most dangerous for our soldiers and nobody is going to allow >> wholesale bombing like Nixon did in Vietnam. >> >> >> >> We also burned a lot of good will in all the countries we need to do this >> with when we got the local civilians to act as translators and informants >> and abandoned them after the war, the highest profile of them the doctor in >> Pakistan. Even he is still in jail years later but the reality is, nobody >> trusts us any more in those regions. We are not a reliable ally. >> >> >> >> Rory >> >> >> >> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza >> *Sent:* Saturday, November 14, 2015 11:06 AM >> *To:* Animal Farm <af@afmug.com> >> >> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis >> français >> >> >> >> as much as i hate war and killing....I agree we need to make a parking >> lot out of them... >> >> >> Jaime Solorza >> >> Wireless Systems Architect >> >> 915-861-1390 >> >> >> >> On Sat, Nov 14, 2015 at 10:42 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: >> >> The more of this that happens, the more the rest of the world will unite >> to rub them out. I am a hopeless optimist. >> >> >> >> *From:* Jaime Solorza <losguyswirel...@gmail.com> >> >> *Sent:* Saturday, November 14, 2015 7:52 AM >> >> *To:* Animal Farm <af@afmug.com> >> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG][WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis >> français >> >> >> >> Yes. I am praying for them and the world. What a tragedy.. It is beyond >> barbaric..its evil for the sake of evil. >> >> Jaime Solorza >> >> On Nov 13, 2015 10:15 PM, "Faisal Imtiaz" <fai...@snappytelecom.net> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Oui , et pas seulement cela , nos cœurs et nos prières pour tous ceux qui >> sont touchés par cette Sensless actes brabaric . >> >> >> >> Faisal Imtiaz >> >> Snappy Internet & Telecom >> 7266 SW 48 Street >> Miami, FL 33155 >> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 >> >> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From: *"Patrick Leary" <patrick.le...@telrad.com> >> *To: *"WISPA General List" <wirel...@wispa.org>, "Telrad List" < >> tel...@wispa.org>, af@afmug.com, memb...@canwisp.ca >> *Sent: *Friday, November 13, 2015 7:46:29 PM >> *Subject: *[WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis français >> >> Tonght, chaque personne libre est un Parisien. >> >> >> >> Patrick Leary >> >> Telrad >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ************************************************************************************ >> This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by >> PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & >> computer viruses. >> >> ************************************************************************************ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wireless mailing list >> wirel...@wispa.org >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ************************************************************************************ >> This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by >> PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & >> computer viruses. >> >> ************************************************************************************ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ************************************************************************************ >> This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by >> PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & >> computer viruses. >> >> ************************************************************************************ >> >> >> >> >> > > > > -- > Lewis Bergman > 325-439-0533 Cell > -- Lewis Bergman 325-439-0533 Cell
