I don't think its good business to hold my vendor partner's feet to the fire over something I shouldn't be doing in the first place. I get it. You feel the other way.
On Sunday, April 17, 2016, Scott Vander Dussen <[email protected]> wrote: > With all due respect, no you still didn't "get it"; but neither is it > important that you do. So I'm going to drop this aspect of the discussion > it here. :) > > Thanks, > 'S > > Sent mobile! > > On Apr 17, 2016, at 06:26, Chuck Hogg <[email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>> wrote: > > So, the issue, is that they enforced policy that they originally thought > they could try to let you slide on. IPPay has no control over > VISA/MC/AMEX, so when they say no, it's their fault. Got it. I'll bow out > of this one, because I fail to see the logic of breaking the rules, getting > caught, they tried to help, and then they couldn't process the > transaction. Now you quit doing business with them over a non-business > related transaction. I've worked with probably 15 different merchant > processors over the last 20 years, and none of them have ever allowed > this. I wouldn't quit a company that wouldn't help me break card > processing rules, even if they originallly tried to help me break them. > > > > > On Sunday, April 17, 2016, Jason McKemie <[email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>> wrote: > >> The issue is how it was handled. >> >> On Saturday, April 16, 2016, Chuck Hogg <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Um, so if you don't seewhy this isn't allowed, I don't know what to >>> say. And to quit a processor over running an unnatural charge that wasn't >>> a normal part of your charge history is crazy. I bet they tried to help >>> you and thats why the runnaround only to be told by their bank that its a >>> no-no. Its also in most merchant agreements. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Saturday, April 16, 2016, Jason McKemie < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> I would have done the same thing. >>>> >>>> On Saturday, April 16, 2016, Jeremy <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Sorry, but this is a ridiculous reason to leave IPPay. Also, it is a >>>>> grey area when it comes to legality. >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 8:55 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> ther may be ftc regulations that would create a criminal liability >>>>>> for processors allowing kiting >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 8:05 PM, Tyson @ Internet Communications Inc >>>>>> (ICI) <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> My 2 cents: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Who cares! The merchant gets their damn money. Unless you have some >>>>>>> kind of charge back history, it's stupid. The only thing I will say, >>>>>>> as >>>>>>> an outsider, if you did it for the rewards perk...why? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Doesn't the reward get off set by the merchant fees? It's a wash. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If the intent was for something else, it's really none of their >>>>>>> business. They make money. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Disclaimer: I don't use them >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Tyson Burris, President* >>>>>>> *Internet Communications Inc.* >>>>>>> *739 Commerce Dr.* >>>>>>> *Franklin, IN 46131* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *317-738-0320 <317-738-0320> Daytime #* >>>>>>> *317-412-1540 <317-412-1540> Cell/Direct #* >>>>>>> *Online: **www.surfici.net* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Forgive the brevity, the typos and my fat fingers! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Apr 15, 2016, at 4:43 PM, Scott Vander Dussen < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I’ve received a few off-list request for my story and a couple here >>>>>>> on-list. I don’t mind sharing, I just didn’t want to come out with a >>>>>>> rant >>>>>>> about IPPay because that wasn’t my goal. I share this experience >>>>>>> because I >>>>>>> really value this list and the contributions made by all you wonderful >>>>>>> people. Few things have shaped my business and been as valuable of a >>>>>>> resource as this list (beginning as Part-15.org <http://part-15.org> >>>>>>> to current), so thank you everyone! (: Part of that awesomeness is >>>>>>> sometimes sharing the less than stellar experiences we face, here’s mine >>>>>>> with IP Pay. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1. I wanted to make a purchase that was not eligible for a CC >>>>>>> payment and get the cash back rewards >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2. I contacted Cap1 and asked if I could use one of those blank >>>>>>> “courtesy checks” they send out to write to myself and basically get a >>>>>>> cash >>>>>>> advance plus then get the cash back rewards. They said no problem, but >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> checks are exempt from cash back rewards. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 3. I asked if I as a business could run my own card into my own bank >>>>>>> account for the cash rewards. She said no problem, I asked her to >>>>>>> research >>>>>>> the Cap 1 Visa ToS to verify, she did and again no problem. I then >>>>>>> asked >>>>>>> her to triple verify by confirming with her supervisor, and again no >>>>>>> problem. They said if you have that resource to process your own card >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> you’re paying your minimum balances etc. it’s a non-issue. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 4. I researched “Credit Card Kiting” which is the process of paying >>>>>>> a credit card balance with another credit card- the practice is only a >>>>>>> problem when there is deception involved. Even the Wikipedia article >>>>>>> demonstrates its OK when there is not deception. And this isn’t even >>>>>>> kiting, it’s just processing a credit card for cash in the bank. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 5. We process a card for $20k >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 6. Tanya Krapil from IPPay halts the transaction, holds the funds >>>>>>> and emails me asking if it’s legit. (lost a whole day of expected funds >>>>>>> because of this) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 7. I reply it’s legit. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 8. Tayan demands invoices and “documentation” before she will >>>>>>> release the funds. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 9. I reply: “We don't share our invoices with parties not involved >>>>>>> with the transaction, that is not only a breach of confidentiality but >>>>>>> inappropriate for you to ask. While I can appreciate your concern for >>>>>>> fraud >>>>>>> I have, as the CEO of Velociter, already confirmed the legitimacy of >>>>>>> this >>>>>>> transaction. If at this time you are cause further delays in processing >>>>>>> this transaction then I will consider your actions as unreasonable >>>>>>> non-performance and a termination of our long standing business >>>>>>> relationship.” >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 10. Tayna the replies that she will process this transaction. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 11. Subsequently Tayna spoke telephonically with other staff and >>>>>>> determined the card was employee owned. Tayna said she’d process the >>>>>>> payment but it isn’t a kosher practice. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 12. Tayna then emails me to tell me just kidding, she’s not going to >>>>>>> process the payment after all. (losing yet another day of expected >>>>>>> funds) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My grief is that on a $20k tag Tayna doesn’t bother to pick up the >>>>>>> phone and call, just arbitrarily held the funds and sent an email. Then >>>>>>> she said two times that she would indeed process the payment only to >>>>>>> then >>>>>>> change her mind later. It’s horrible customer service to say one thing >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> then not honor it, even if you made a mistake. I’m particularly >>>>>>> bothered >>>>>>> by her asking for “invoices and documentation” to support the charge; >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> US in particular is getting so used to sacrificing our privacy and >>>>>>> freedoms. Tayna is demanding I send over information that completely >>>>>>> out >>>>>>> of her sphere of concern. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Tayna is citing that it’s a Visa policy not process your own card, >>>>>>> but has provided no documentation to support that. There is no >>>>>>> deception >>>>>>> involved, we called and pre-authorized the transaction with Cap1 on a >>>>>>> recorded call and Cap1 gave their blessing. I contract with IPPay to >>>>>>> process the CC cards I enter, nothing more. Even if there is some >>>>>>> obscure >>>>>>> Visa ToS that prohibits this transaction for this specific reason (this >>>>>>> is * >>>>>>> *not** credit card kiting) Tayna’s lack of professionalism and the >>>>>>> subsequent headache it’s caused me finished my company’s business >>>>>>> relationship with IPPay. And I would greatly question who is the >>>>>>> enforcement of Visa’s ToS, the merchant or the issuing bank. I’d lean >>>>>>> heavily towards the issuing bank. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Anyhow, thanks for the feedback and suggestions of other merchants. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Scott >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *From:* Af [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett >>>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, April 15, 2016 11:35 >>>>>>> *To:* [email protected] >>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Merchant services >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Same. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- >>>>>>> Mike Hammett >>>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >>>>>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >>>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >>>>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>>>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >>>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >>>>>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>>>>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *From: *"Jason Wilson" <[email protected]> >>>>>>> *To: *[email protected] >>>>>>> *Sent: *Friday, April 15, 2016 1:22:03 PM >>>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Merchant services >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Scott, I am an IPPay client, email privately your decision to move. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jason >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jason Wilson >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Remotely Located >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 530-651-1736 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 530-748-9608 Cell >>>>>>> >>>>>>> www.remotelylocated.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 11:08 AM, Josh Reynolds < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Authorize.net <http://authorize.net>? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 1:02 PM, Scott Vander Dussen >>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> > Without all the nasty details, I'm completely done doing business >>>>>>> with IPPay. Any recommendations for alternatives? >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Thanks, >>>>>>> > 'S >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Sent mobile! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your >>>>>> team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Regards, >>> Chuck >>> >> > > -- > Regards, > Chuck > > -- Regards, Chuck
