It wouldn't be disruptive :P On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 11:18 PM, Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> IMHO it should be neither N or SMA or anything else, it should be direct > to waveguide... What is wrong with the mechanical robustness of mounting a > radio directly on a dish (cylindrical waveguide + 4 bolt REMEC)? Or the > way a Dragonwave radio mounts with the four clips? > > > > On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 7:41 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: > >> UBNT said that they went with N for its increased mechanical robustness >> and weatherproofing. Were they having issues with that at SMA? >> >> Why go cabled over waveguide at all anyway? >> >> >> >> ----- >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >> >> >> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >> ------------------------------ >> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com> >> *To: *af@afmug.com >> *Sent: *Friday, July 1, 2016 9:38:01 PM >> >> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N >> >> Right, and so do the people you're talking about - keep it in mind >> they've already tested these. >> >> I brought up this exact issue by the way, when they (idiot customer) fuck >> up a connector and buy one from BillyBobs HAM shop and wonder why it >> doesn't work. >> >> I was told the cost on these was low, and they would be sold like any >> other connector or accessory. I mean, you DO buy spares for licensed >> backhaul, right? >> >> I was also told they are working on "other accessories" for this radio >> that will be some of the highest quality in the industry. >> On Jul 1, 2016 9:27 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: >> >>> Here is the thing, you buy a radio that has 11 or 18 GHz appearing on >>> an N connector. >>> >>> Then you purchase a cable from your favorite cable place. Connect the >>> two and wonder why you are having problems. >>> >>> If you get a cable that actually has connectors rated for the frequency >>> if they did not sweep it, there is no guarantee it will work properly. >>> And if they did sweep it it is going to cost a ton. >>> >>> SMA is cheap, easy and always works at those frequencies. N is only >>> cheap and easy below 6 GHz. >>> I am not saying a connector that is rated for the frequency will not >>> do the job, but the connector is just the first step. If you do not use >>> extreme precision at 18 GHz then sweep the cable with the proper gear it is >>> going to have problems. Things like terminations at 18 GHz are not even >>> trivial. It is so hard to get a good 50 ohm termination for calibration >>> you generally use a sliding load. (Actually, you are normally using >>> waveguide at 18 GHz. ) >>> >>> I do – do this for a living, you know... >>> >>> *From:* Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com> >>> *Sent:* Friday, July 01, 2016 8:13 PM >>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N >>> >>> >>> I'm saying the same thing. Take the connector designed for it, thrown >>> your opinion in the trash, and post the results. Repeat the test. Have >>> someone else repeat the test. Scientific method. >>> On Jul 1, 2016 9:10 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Type N connectors are not in common use above 6 GHz. Believe me or >>>> not. >>>> >>>> You wanna go above 6, there are plenty of other cheaper and better >>>> connectors to use. N connector concentricity is not inherent to the design >>>> of the connector. And concentricity is essential to good return loss. >>>> >>>> You send me an N connector cable. I will put it on a load and connect >>>> it to a vector network analyzer with a smith chart on the screen. Will >>>> record video. Then I will wiggle the cable and back off the connector a >>>> bit you can see for yourself the dot (arc actually) wander all over the >>>> place. The higher the frequency the more it becomes a wild line. >>>> >>>> Then I will do the same for SMA and you can see for yourself which one >>>> is more stable. Opinions don’t matter. A dot is a dot, an arc is an arc >>>> and a squiggly line is a squiggly line. >>>> >>>> *From:* Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com> >>>> *Sent:* Friday, July 01, 2016 7:53 PM >>>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N >>>> >>>> >>>> So, nothing personal by this... but if the connector is designed for it >>>> (and has several versions by other manufacturers to boot), has been used >>>> (and is still used) on testing equipment... I'm probably more inclined to >>>> take their word for it over yours. >>>> On Jul 1, 2016 7:58 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> IMHO, 6 GHz is the upper limit. >>>>> >>>>> *From:* Peter Kranz <pkr...@unwiredltd.com> >>>>> *Sent:* Friday, July 01, 2016 5:22 PM >>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> “Originally, the connector was designed to carry signals at >>>>> frequencies up to 1 GHz <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GHz> in >>>>> military applications, but today's common Type N easily handles >>>>> frequencies >>>>> up to 11 GHz. More recent precision enhancements to the design by Julius >>>>> Botka at Hewlett Packard >>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hewlett_Packard> have pushed this to >>>>> 18 GHz.” >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://inmet.apitech.com/inmet/micro-inmet-between-typen.cfm >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *Peter Kranz*www.UnwiredLtd.com <http://www.unwiredltd.com/> >>>>> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100 >>>>> Mobile: 510-207-0000 >>>>> pkr...@unwiredltd.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown >>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 30, 2016 3:24 PM >>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Yeah, I think this is a case of somebody bowing their neck - a pissing >>>>> contest between a boss and underlings at UBNT. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *From:* Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuh...@gmail.com> >>>>> >>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 30, 2016 4:19 PM >>>>> >>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>>>> >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I have never in my life personally seen an N connector rated above 11 >>>>> GHz. High-quality/expensive N connectors are used extensively in two way >>>>> satellite - such as with 3.0 meter C-band Tx/Rx earth station dishes... >>>>> But you only use N for the 50 ohm coax cables from the modem (indoors) to >>>>> the electronics which lives directly attached to the waveguide/feed on the >>>>> dish (Rx LNB and Tx SSPA/BUC). >>>>> >>>>> The coax is used between 1.2 to 1.8 GHz to communicate with the Tx and >>>>> Rx electronics on the dish. A satellite LNB on the Rx side is basically a >>>>> 10:1 ratio downconverter. >>>>> >>>>> Like so: >>>>> http://beta.satcomresources.com/sca/images/NORS3120N_detail-3.jpg >>>>> >>>>> There's your single polarity waveguide interface on one side, N on the >>>>> other. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 6:49 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> First of all, I have never seen an N connector rated above 11 GHz, and >>>>> those are extra expensive. >>>>> >>>>> If there is an 18 GHz version, it will be even more expensive. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> This will not be a cable you can make yourself in the field and it >>>>> will be very sensitive to being fully seated so you will probably have to >>>>> use a torque wrench to make it work at 18 GHz. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Silly. You can weatherproof an SMA just as easy as an N connector. >>>>> Good heatshrink can be found for both. >>>>> >>>>> Folks trying to use N connectors at 18 GHz are going to quickly get >>>>> introduced to the world of return loss problems. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *Von:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *Im Auftrag von *Rob Genovesi >>>>> *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 30. Juni 2016 01:32 >>>>> *An:* af@afmug.com >>>>> *Betreff:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From Gary-UBNT: >>>>> >>>>> "We are working on data sheets right now so hopefully you will get >>>>> more questions answered shortly. The reason for N connectors relates to >>>>> demand for higher mechanical robustness and the ability for the connectors >>>>> to be weather-proof as a stand alone connector (fully weatherproof gaskets >>>>> and the ability to accept larger diameter jumpers readily). The N >>>>> connectors we use are rated to 18+ GHz." >>>>> >>>>> An active thread on the UBNT forums right now, more available here: >>>>> http://community.ubnt.com/t5/airFiber/Some-AF11X-details/td-p/1512145 >>>>> >>>>> -Rob >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 12:05 PM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I'm looking at all the other AF-nnX radios from UBNT, and they all use >>>>> SMA connectors. What reason would they have to use N instead of SMA? Seems >>>>> the SMA connector would have fewer issues at 11 GHz. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >> >
