I thought there was a promo price on the APs. Is it over? Did I dream it?
-----Original Message----- From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 8:13 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 900 MHz PMP450i :: Any real numbers? What promotion? ------ Original Message ------ From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: 9/27/2016 1:44:19 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 900 MHz PMP450i :: Any real numbers? >Like everything with 900, you probably have to just try it. > >What's clearer is that if most of your FSK subs are at 2X, then moving >to 450i will probably net you a big capacity increase, you will be back >in the real broadband business. > >But with a marginal signal level and lots of interference, it's hard to >predict. It will give you some extra tools, like 5, 7 and 10 MHz >channel widths. And my (limited) experience was yes we got better >throughput and fewer losses of registration. > >You do have to realize that with a 17 dBi CPE antenna and probably >running full xmt power, you are probably over the 36 dBm EIRP limit by >at least 6 dB in the upstream direction. So do you use the KP 17.5 dBi >yagi but tell the SM it only has a 10 or 12 dBi antenna? From your >numbers, I think you're going to have to. Unless you have one of those >situations where a wider beam to illuminate more foliage would actually >perform better. > >It you're going to try it, now's the time with the promotion. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jay Weekley >Sent: Monday, September 26, 2016 11:34 PM >To: af@afmug.com >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 900 MHz PMP450i :: Any real numbers? > >I'm curious how the conversion from the legacy 900 gear to the 450i is. >For example, if we have a customer with a -75 with a 17 db yagi on the >old stuff but is having problems due to interference will we be able to >salvage them with the 450i 900 gear? > >Dave wrote: >> George, >> Myself and another ISP here in Arkansas have been using the new >> 450i >> 900 gear and for what its worth we have been amazed at some of the >> penetration and numbers we able to see. >> Using KP sectors and yagis is the ticket. >> We have been able to increase marginal shots in upwards of 10+ >> points or more. >> >> The only gotcha I have with the stuff is the number of clients that >> can be sustained on an AP. >> Which all revolves around Frame Utilization. We have been ok with >> about 20 subs with a 5x5 sustained rate package. >> I am sure you could squeeze more by tweaking the sustained and burst. >> I used the Capacity planner cambium has for this and it was really >> close for what we see. >> Yes, even through some pine >> >> >> On 09/24/2016 02:45 PM, George Skorup wrote: >>> And what happens when the noise floor increases and the eNB can't >>> hear those shitty CPEs anymore? Nevermind, that question answered >>>itself. >>> >>> The boss keeps wanting to try an LTE sector at sites where we have >>>a >>> mile or more deep trees (where we know 900 FSK barely works now, >>>not >>> only due to power levels but noise floor too). My fear is that it >>> actually does "work" (meaning horrible mod levels) and he'll want >>>to >>> run with it. So we'll get what, a couple Mbps out of a sector. >>>Sounds >>> a lot like 900 FSK. Sounds a lot like 900 450i with a horrible >>>noise >>> floor. So we gain nothing and spent a ton of money. Great idea. And >>> we won't end up getting all of the customers off of the 900 anyway, >>> that I'm sure. >>> >>> On 9/24/2016 11:47 AM, Adam Moffett wrote: >>>> In Wimax it's 4x4....I'm pretty sure we'll have 4x4 in LTE as >>>>well, >>>> but I think feature was released only a month or so ago. We have >>>>a >>>> few places with split sectors, so we'll be able to compare to 2x2. >>>> From what I understand, LTE's frame structure is such that it can >>>> hang on to a crummy signal longer than Wimax. It was explained to >>>>me >>>> that Wimax puts the synchronization data in the pre-amble which >>>>has >>>> to be received on every subcarrier, whereas LTE has that data >>>> interspersed among the subcarriers, so where your weak wimax CPE >>>> sometimes cuts in an out, an LTE CPE in the same conditions can >>>>stay >>>> connected. It also has lower mod levels that let it operate right >>>> down to the noise floor. And at least in theory you'll get more >>>> throughput than you get in the same conditions on Wimax. >>>> I have the same reservations as you about the low mod levels thing. >>>> Just because they work doesn't mean you want them. We're not >>>> intentionally installing anything weaker than a -80 RSSI right >>>>now, >>>> so we really ought to be ok on that front. >>>> -Adam >>>> ------ Original Message ------ >>>> From: "George Skorup" <geo...@cbcast.com >>>><mailto:geo...@cbcast.com>> >>>> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> >>>> Sent: 9/23/2016 11:23:57 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 900 MHz PMP450i :: Any real numbers? >>>>> Well, let me ask this. Are you doing 2x2 or 4x4 on the Telrad? >>>>> Obviously 4x4 would give a slight advantage. >>>>> >>>>> My whole thing is, OK, it might work through a shit ton of trees. >>>>> Linked up and able to move some traffic is one thing. But a whole >>>>> bunch of low modulation customers on a sector is not worth the >>>>> investment. LTE, Wimax, 450i 900.. whatever it may be. >>>>> >>>>> I know of a Telrad installation where they couldn't make it work. >>>>> Turned out to be interference. They had some guys from Israel >>>>>come >>>>> "fix" it. I won't say any names, but I now see what they did to >>>>>get >>>>> it working. It's in the 3.5 band.. because I can see them on my >>>>> 450's spectrum analyzer. From multiple sectors on multiple >>>>>towers, >>>>> so I know what direction it's coming from. And I have no doubt >>>>> they're running it over powered. >>>>> >>>>> Welp, we have a BaiCells demo kit, so we'll see what happens. >>>>> >>>>> On 9/23/2016 9:52 PM, Adam Moffett wrote: >>>>>> We've had Telrad Compact 1000's for around 2.5 years, but >>>>>>they're >>>>>> running Wimax firmware because we were replacing older 16e >>>>>> installations. We have a number of sites now that have entirely >>>>>> dual mode CPE so we're about to pull the trigger on LTE. We're >>>>>> installing four LTE base stations next week on brand new sites, >>>>>> and assuming those go well we'll upgrade some existing Wimax >>>>>>sites. >>>>>> So yeah, within the next few weeks I'll know more. I'll >>>>>>definitely >>>>>> report back. >>>>>> It's interesting that you phrase it as "if it works at all." >>>>>>The >>>>>> issue with Wimax has never been it "working", it's just that it >>>>>> comes with a lot of quirks and it sucks at administration and >>>>>> troubleshooting. I'm speaking of Wimax in general here, not >>>>>> Telrad specifically....and I've used Wimax from three different >>>>>> vendors now. I have no fear about LTE working. I _am_ afraid >>>>>>it >>>>>> will turn out to be cut from the same cloth as Wimax. >>>>>> ------ Original Message ------ >>>>>> From: "George Skorup" <geo...@cbcast.com >>>>>> <mailto:geo...@cbcast.com>> >>>>>> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> >>>>>> Sent: 9/23/2016 8:04:34 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 900 MHz PMP450i :: Any real numbers? >>>>>>> Aren't you doing Telrad? Please let us know if it works at all. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 9/23/2016 4:05 PM, Adam Moffett wrote: >>>>>>>> I'll let you know in a few weeks. >>>>>>>> ------ Original Message ------ >>>>>>>> From: ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> >>>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> >>>>>>>> Sent: 9/23/2016 5:01:02 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 900 MHz PMP450i :: Any real numbers? >>>>>>>>> I wonder what LTE would do with the same RSSI. >>>>>>>>> *From:* Adam Moffett <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, September 23, 2016 2:46 PM >>>>>>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> >>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 900 MHz PMP450i :: Any real numbers? >>>>>>>>> Oh I also have somebody with a -88 who gets about half that. >>>>>>>>> 900 was the last ditch effort for both of these. >>>>>>>>> With wimax from the same tower we got a big fat nothing at >>>>>>>>>both >>>>>>>>> locations. >>>>>>>>> ------ Original Message ------ >>>>>>>>> From: "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com >>>>>>>>> <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> >>>>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> >>>>>>>>> Sent: 9/23/2016 4:44:21 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 900 MHz PMP450i :: Any real numbers? >>>>>>>>>> On the other end of the quality spectrum: >>>>>>>>>> *Link Test with Bridging >>>>>>>>>> * >>>>>>>>>> VC Downlink Uplink Aggregate Packet Transmit Packet Receive >>>>>>>>>> Actual Actual >>>>>>>>>> 19 6.07 Mbps 1.32 Mbps 7.39 Mbps, 474 pps 821 (410 pps) >>>>>>>>>> 128(64 pps) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> That's a -85 on a 5mhz channel. On any wider channel I lose >>>>>>>>>> this guy. >>>>>>>>>> ------ Original Message ------ >>>>>>>>>> From: "Dave" <dmilho...@wletc.com >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com>> >>>>>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> >>>>>>>>>> Sent: 9/23/2016 4:17:36 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 900 MHz PMP450i :: Any real numbers? >>>>>>>>>>> This is from one of ours >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Current Results Status >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Stats for LUID: 3 Test Duration: 5 Pkt Length: 1714 Test >>>>>>>>>>> Direction Bi-Directional >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> *RF Link Test* >>>>>>>>>>> VC Downlink Uplink Aggregate Packet Transmit Packet Receive >>>>>>>>>>> Actual Actual >>>>>>>>>>> 19 26.13 Mbps 6.78 Mbps 32.92 Mbps, 2367 pps 2389 (477 >>>>>>>>>>> pps) 9450(1890 pps) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> *Efficiency* >>>>>>>>>>> Downlink Uplink >>>>>>>>>>> Efficiency Fragments >>>>>>>>>>> count Efficiency Fragments >>>>>>>>>>> count >>>>>>>>>>> Actual Expected Actual Expected 100% 255254 255254 78% >>>>>>>>>>> 84124 66231 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Link Test ran on 03:59:48 01/09/2011 UTC >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> *Currently transmitting at:* VC 19 Rate 8X/8X MIMO-B >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 09/23/2016 03:12 PM, Bill Prince wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> We're looking at doing a forklift on a couple of 900 MHz >>>>>>>>>>>>FSK >>>>>>>>>>>> APs. What are real world throughput numbers that any of you >>>>>>>>>>>> pioneers are getting? We would probably want to do 10 MHz >>>>>>>>>>>> channels at first, and I would hope that we could get > 15 >>>>>>>>>>>> Mbps in download, but maybe I'm being too conservative? >>>>>>>>>>>> The places we are looking at do not have Smart Meter >>>>>>>>>>>>issues. >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> bp >>>>>>>>>>>> part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >> >> -- > > >
