The difference is in how it actually works... http://www.cablefree.net/wirelesstechnology/microwave/xpic-cross-polarization-interference-cancellation/
http://www.rfwireless-world.com/Articles/difference-between-SISO-and-MIMO.html XPIC is a way of putting H and V Signal in one antenna (two radios) and then separating it and feeding it back into two radios. MIMO is a way of transmitting multiple streams simultaneously using Spatial Multiplexing... :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net > From: "George Skorup" <geo...@cbcast.com> > To: af@afmug.com > Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 10:23:57 PM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Highest capacity 6 GHz system > OK, let me make this clearer. I'm talking about FDD systems using one channel > *pair* only. You have a Tx hi and a Tx lo. > AF5 (not X) or 24/HD in FDD mode. Say AF24 running 24.1 Tx and 24.2 Rx. Vice > versa for the opposite end. It's a "MIMO" radio system. > Now take traditional microwave vendor X. Same stuff. FDD. Tx hi both > polarities > at one end, Tx low both polarities at the other. This is called an "XPIC" > radio > system. > What is the difference between XPIC and MIMO? > Sounds to me like two guys named Pete and Peter walk into a bar. Is the only > difference their name, but they're actually the same guy because Steve is > drunk > and has double vision? Or is Steve not that drunk yet and the two guys are > nearly identical twin brothers? > Basically, what the hell is the fundamental difference between the two? > On 10/24/2016 8:35 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote: >> There's 2 diplexers per side, so that would be 2 channel pairs, right? 2xTx >> 2xRx? MIMO-FD? >> On Oct 24, 2016 8:32 PM, "Faisal Imtiaz" < fai...@snappytelecom.net > wrote: >>> Yes, full duplex (as in using one channel for Tx & one for RX) >>> MIMO as in using both polarities.. yes >>> but as in using both channels to send & receive ... no not as per their >>> specs. >>> Faisal Imtiaz >>> Snappy Internet & Telecom >>> 7266 SW 48 Street >>> Miami, FL 33155 >>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 >>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net >>>> From: "Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com > >>>> To: af@afmug.com >>>> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 8:51:52 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Highest capacity 6 GHz system >>>> AF11X actually has two internal radios if my understanding of the platform >>>> is >>>> correct. It is Full Duplex + MIMO. >>>> On Oct 24, 2016 7:03 PM, "Bill Prince" < part15...@gmail.com > wrote: >>>>> It's not 100% clear from your description, but the AF11x is using both >>>>> polarities. >>>>> The Mimosa is a very strange duck. Even using 2 channels and 2 >>>>> polarities, there >>>>> is no way to actually run it full duplex. The high-latency half duplex is >>>>> pretty much baked in. IMO, it squanders air bandwidth at the expense of >>>>> cheapness. And it's highest modulation rate is still only 256QAM. We had >>>>> serious trouble trying to even get 256QAM on a relatively modest distance >>>>> link. >>>>> bp >>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >>>>> On 10/24/2016 4:28 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: >>>>>> I will take a crack at it... just to make sure that My understanding is >>>>>> correct >>>>>> too. >>>>>> In licensed radio world, the default lingo is as follows:- >>>>>> A single channel is actually two channels, one channel is used to >>>>>> Transmit and >>>>>> the other channel is used to receive. >>>>>> and each of these channels pair can be either in V polarity or H >>>>>> polarity (but >>>>>> not mingled). >>>>>> XPIC is used to describe a radio where you can mount two radios >>>>>> together, one >>>>>> using the H polarity and the other using V polarity, but the same >>>>>> channel... >>>>>> But still only one channel (H + V) is used to transmit and the other >>>>>> channel is >>>>>> used to Receive. (Thus Full duplex) >>>>>> MIMO...., = One Channel, both H & V polarities are used, and either one >>>>>> can be >>>>>> used for Tx and Rx (thus half duplex) >>>>>> AF11x = Traditional Licensed radio... one channel/polarity for TX and one >>>>>> channel/polarity for RX >>>>>> Mimosa B11 = Disruptive... a very odd animal... can be configured as... >>>>>> Use one channel (both polarities) for TX and one channel (both >>>>>> polarities) for >>>>>> RX >>>>>> or ... Use Two Channels, both polarities in each channel, and use either >>>>>> one to >>>>>> TX & RX (more like a dual channel MIMO) >>>>>> AF5 = Uses one channel (both polarities) for Tx and one channel (both >>>>>> polarities) for RX >>>>>> AF24 = can be used as >>>>>> One Channel (Dual Polarities) for TX and one Channel (Dual Polarities) >>>>>> for RX >>>>>> or can use the same one channel (dual polarities) for Tx and Rx. >>>>>> Hope this is as clear as mud ! >>>>>> :) >>>>>> Faisal Imtiaz >>>>>> Snappy Internet & Telecom >>>>>> 7266 SW 48 Street >>>>>> Miami, FL 33155 >>>>>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 >>>>>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net >>>>>>> From: "George Skorup" <geo...@cbcast.com> >>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 7:09:11 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Highest capacity 6 GHz system >>>>>>> What's so much different between XPIC and MIMO? I'm asking because I >>>>>>> guess I'm >>>>>>> just ignorant. MIMO = single carrier (is OFDM implied?), dual streams? >>>>>>> And XPIC >>>>>>> = dual carriers (is single-carrier QAM per channel implied?) and >>>>>>> independent >>>>>>> streams that are aggregated in hardware, perhaps as simple as a LAG on >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> internal switch? Or does XPIC add some more magic? >>>>>>> So then what is the UBNT AF11X considered? Or the AF5 and 24 for that >>>>>>> matter >>>>>>> since they're also capable of FDD. >>>>>>> On 10/24/2016 5:23 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: >>>>>>>> Can a non-vendor tell me if at higher order modulations if there's >>>>>>>> limiting gain >>>>>>>> from co-channel XPIC? I assume it works to some degree because it's >>>>>>>> marketed >>>>>>>> (yes, I have a tub of salt over here), but at some point the >>>>>>>> modulations would >>>>>>>> be sensitive enough where the X-pol isolation isn't sufficient? >>>>>>>> Okay, a vendor can if they're more technical than salesy. >>>>>>>> I'm not meaning to imply John was salesy. >>>>>>>> ;-) >>>>>>>> ----- >>>>>>>> Mike Hammett >>>>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions >>>>>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange >>>>>>>> The Brothers WISP >>>>>>>> From: "John Seaman" <j...@trangosys.com> >>>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 3:55:17 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Highest capacity 6 GHz system >>>>>>>> Hi Ken, the Lynx and Orion are largely identical. The biggest >>>>>>>> difference between >>>>>>>> the two is that the Orion supports XPIC where as the Lynx does not. >>>>>>>> Keep in >>>>>>>> mind that either model can be set up for 2+0, but only with the Orion >>>>>>>> can both >>>>>>>> radios operate on the same channel. Other than that, the Orion does >>>>>>>> offer >>>>>>>> higher TX power (for certain frequencies) compared to the Lynx. >>>>>>>> However with 6 >>>>>>>> GHz, the TX frequency for Lynx and Orion are the same. Orion also >>>>>>>> features >>>>>>>> SynchE/1588 functionality which is not found on the Lynx. Both models >>>>>>>> now >>>>>>>> support buffer size up to 8 MB. >>>>>>>> John Seaman | Sales | Trango Systems, Inc. | >>>>>>>> +1-858-248-4006 >>>>>>>> www.trangosys.com >>>>>>>> Innovating Microwave Backhaul ™ >>>>>>>> On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 11:38 AM, Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: >>>>>>>>> Jeremy, I’m trying to remember, can you upgrade that Lynx to 2+0 with >>>>>>>>> a license >>>>>>>>> key as long as you don’t need XPIC? Trango doesn’t spell it out very >>>>>>>>> well on >>>>>>>>> their website, but it looks like the major differences between Lynx >>>>>>>>> and Orion >>>>>>>>> are buffer size, XPIC, and maybe the interface and powering options? >>>>>>>>> So that >>>>>>>>> you could still double the throughput as long as you can license a >>>>>>>>> different >>>>>>>>> frequency pair for the other polarization. And the issue of the wired >>>>>>>>> interface >>>>>>>>> speed. >>>>>>>>> From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Jeremy >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, October 21, 2016 10:16 PM >>>>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Highest capacity 6 GHz system >>>>>>>>> I don't know who has the biggest or best, but my 6GHz Trango Apex >>>>>>>>> Lynx has been >>>>>>>>> rock solid for going on four years now. It does 700Mbps FDX. I >>>>>>>>> believe that the >>>>>>>>> Trango Orion has XPIC up to 1.5Gbps in a 56Mhz channel. >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 7:41 PM, Josh Reynolds < j...@kyneticwifi.com >>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Why in the world would they buy Exalt? >>>>>>>>>> On Oct 21, 2016 8:10 PM, "Jaime Solorza" < losguyswirel...@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> I thought Crisco bought out Exalt >>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 21, 2016 5:10 PM, "Ken Hohhof" < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> I thought I got an ad recently from Exalt about a big sale through >>>>>>>>>>>> the end of >>>>>>>>>>>> the year on Extreme Air 6Hz. Oops, I just found the email, and >>>>>>>>>>>> it’s everything >>>>>>>>>>>> but 6 GHz. Not sure I’d buy Exalt anyway. Maybe someone else was >>>>>>>>>>>> having an >>>>>>>>>>>> overstock sale on 6 GHz? >>>>>>>>>>>> From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>>>>> ch...@wbmfg.com >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, October 21, 2016 5:50 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Highest capacity 6 GHz system >>>>>>>>>>>> First I have to find out if there are channels in this area. >>>>>>>>>>>> Then I have a passive repeater to deal with... >>>>>>>>>>>> Not a simple path to engineer. >>>>>>>>>>>> From: Daniel White >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, October 21, 2016 4:33 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Highest capacity 6 GHz system >>>>>>>>>>>> Well you can only use 60MHz channels max. That helps make it more >>>>>>>>>>>> competitive. >>>>>>>>>>>> 6GHz most likely precludes higher modulations… you just won’t have >>>>>>>>>>>> the link >>>>>>>>>>>> budget. Also depends if you’re going all outdoor or >>>>>>>>>>>> split-mount/all-indoor. >>>>>>>>>>>> I’d be shocked if there is a winner here – I’d go with the >>>>>>>>>>>> solution your most >>>>>>>>>>>> comfortable with. >>>>>>>>>>>> My guess is you will end up with Ceragon/Cambium or SIAE. >>>>>>>>>>>> DragonWave Harmony >>>>>>>>>>>> Advanced is certainly worth a look, although I’m not sure about >>>>>>>>>>>> 6GHz >>>>>>>>>>>> availability since it just started shipping. >>>>>>>>>>>> Chuck feel free to contact me offlist and we could look at some >>>>>>>>>>>> things. >>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel White >>>>>>>>>>>> Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales >>>>>>>>>>>> ConVergence Technologies >>>>>>>>>>>> Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590 >>>>>>>>>>>> dwh...@converge-tech.com >>>>> ...
