You will want both diplexers to use both polarities unless: your trying to save
money, spectrum is scarce, or you won't need the extra capacity.
Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.
> On Oct 24, 2016, at 11:49 PM, George Skorup <geo...@cbcast.com> wrote:
>
> SISO, one diplexer, FDD makes perfect sense to me. That's your traditional
> 1+0.
>
> I could be completely wrong, but the second optional diplexer sounds to me
> like it's for use where you need to license in separate sub-bands. Next
> question is, can you run the same sub-band on both ports? So the same Tx
> channel on both polarities. So then it would be XPIC MIMO? <snicker>
> Actually, that'd be pretty nuckin futs if they could do that. And very
> efficient. And then Ubi-wan Chucknobi comes in and says....... unpossible.
> Just to smash my dreams.
>
>> On 10/24/2016 10:01 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>> Yeah, I'm confused too.
>>
>> From the manual... (attached)
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 9:39 PM, Jon Langeler <jon-ispli...@michwave.net>
>> wrote:
>>> XPIC is an AF11 sawed in half then slapped into an expensive chunk of metal
>>> behind the antenna on each polarity. It will be called 'old school' when
>>> AF11 comes out
>>>
>>> Jon Langeler
>>> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 24, 2016, at 10:23 PM, George Skorup <geo...@cbcast.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> OK, let me make this clearer. I'm talking about FDD systems using one
>>>> channel *pair* only. You have a Tx hi and a Tx lo.
>>>>
>>>> AF5 (not X) or 24/HD in FDD mode. Say AF24 running 24.1 Tx and 24.2 Rx.
>>>> Vice versa for the opposite end. It's a "MIMO" radio system.
>>>>
>>>> Now take traditional microwave vendor X. Same stuff. FDD. Tx hi both
>>>> polarities at one end, Tx low both polarities at the other. This is called
>>>> an "XPIC" radio system.
>>>>
>>>> What is the difference between XPIC and MIMO?
>>>>
>>>> Sounds to me like two guys named Pete and Peter walk into a bar. Is the
>>>> only difference their name, but they're actually the same guy because
>>>> Steve is drunk and has double vision? Or is Steve not that drunk yet and
>>>> the two guys are nearly identical twin brothers?
>>>>
>>>> Basically, what the hell is the fundamental
>>>> difference between the two?
>>>>
>>>> On 10/24/2016 8:35 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>>>>> There's 2 diplexers per side, so that would be 2 channel pairs, right?
>>>>> 2xTx 2xRx? MIMO-FD?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 24, 2016 8:32 PM, "Faisal Imtiaz" <fai...@snappytelecom.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Yes, full duplex (as in using one channel for Tx & one for RX)
>>>>>> MIMO as in using both polarities.. yes
>>>>>> but as in using both channels to send & receive ... no not as per their
>>>>>> specs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Faisal Imtiaz
>>>>>> Snappy Internet & Telecom
>>>>>> 7266 SW 48 Street
>>>>>> Miami, FL 33155
>>>>>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com>
>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 8:51:52 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Highest capacity 6 GHz system
>>>>>> AF11X actually has two internal radios if my understanding of the
>>>>>> platform is correct. It is Full Duplex + MIMO.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Oct 24, 2016 7:03 PM, "Bill Prince" <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> It's not 100% clear from your description, but the AF11x is using both
>>>>>>> polarities.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Mimosa is a very strange duck. Even
>>>>>>> using 2 channels and 2 polarities, there is no way to
>>>>>>> actually run it full duplex. The high-latency half duplex is pretty
>>>>>>> much baked in. IMO, it squanders air bandwidth at the expense of
>>>>>>> cheapness. And it's highest modulation rate is still only 256QAM. We
>>>>>>> had serious trouble trying to even get 256QAM on a relatively
>>>>>>> modest distance link.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> bp
>>>>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10/24/2016 4:28 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
>>>>>>> I will take a crack at it... just to make sure that My understanding is
>>>>>>> correct too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In licensed radio world, the default lingo is as follows:-
>>>>>>> A single channel is actually two channels, one channel is used to
>>>>>>> Transmit and the other channel is used to receive.
>>>>>>> and each of these channels pair can be either in V polarity or H
>>>>>>> polarity (but not mingled).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> XPIC is used to describe a radio where you can mount two radios
>>>>>>> together, one using the H polarity and the other using V polarity, but
>>>>>>> the same channel...
>>>>>>> But still only one channel (H + V) is used to transmit and the other
>>>>>>> channel is used to Receive. (Thus Full duplex)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> MIMO...., = One Channel, both H & V polarities are used, and either
>>>>>>> one can be used for Tx and Rx (thus half duplex)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> AF11x = Traditional Licensed radio... one channel/polarity for TX and
>>>>>>> one channel/polarity for RX
>>>>>>> Mimosa B11 = Disruptive... a very odd animal... can be configured as...
>>>>>>> Use one channel (both
>>>>>>> polarities) for TX and one channel (both polarities) for RX
>>>>>>> or ... Use Two Channels, both polarities
>>>>>>> in each channel, and use either one to TX & RX (more like a dual
>>>>>>> channel MIMO)
>>>>>>> AF5 = Uses one channel (both polarities) for Tx and one channel
>>>>>>> (both polarities) for RX
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> AF24 = can be used as
>>>>>>> One Channel (Dual Polarities) for TX
>>>>>>> and one Channel (Dual Polarities) for RX
>>>>>>> or can use the same one channel
>>>>>>> (dual polarities) for Tx and Rx.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hope this is as clear as mud !
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Faisal Imtiaz
>>>>>>> Snappy Internet & Telecom
>>>>>>> 7266 SW 48 Street
>>>>>>> Miami, FL 33155
>>>>>>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: "George Skorup" <geo...@cbcast.com>
>>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 7:09:11 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Highest capacity 6 GHz system
>>>>>>> What's so much different between XPIC and MIMO? I'm asking because I
>>>>>>> guess I'm just ignorant. MIMO = single carrier (is OFDM implied?), dual
>>>>>>> streams? And XPIC = dual carriers (is single-carrier QAM per channel
>>>>>>> implied?) and independent streams that are aggregated in hardware,
>>>>>>> perhaps as simple as a LAG on the internal switch? Or does XPIC add
>>>>>>> some more magic?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So then what is the UBNT AF11X considered? Or the AF5 and 24 for that
>>>>>>> matter since they're also capable of FDD.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10/24/2016 5:23 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>>>>>>> Can a non-vendor tell me if at higher order modulations if there's
>>>>>>> limiting gain from co-channel XPIC? I assume it works to some degree
>>>>>>> because it's marketed (yes, I have a tub
>>>>>>> of salt over here), but at some point the
>>>>>>> modulations would be sensitive enough where the X-pol isolation isn't
>>>>>>> sufficient?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Okay, a vendor can if they're more technical than salesy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm not meaning to imply John was salesy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ;-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Brothers WISP
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: "John Seaman" <j...@trangosys.com>
>>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 3:55:17 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Highest capacity 6 GHz system
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Ken, the Lynx and Orion are largely identical. The biggest
>>>>>>> difference between the two is that the Orion supports XPIC where as the
>>>>>>> Lynx does not. Keep in mind that either model can be set up for 2+0,
>>>>>>> but only with the Orion can both radios operate on the same channel.
>>>>>>> Other than that, the Orion does offer higher TX power (for certain
>>>>>>> frequencies) compared to the Lynx. However with 6 GHz, the TX
>>>>>>> frequency for Lynx and Orion are the same. Orion also features
>>>>>>> SynchE/1588 functionality which is not found on the Lynx. Both models
>>>>>>> now support buffer size up to 8 MB.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> John Seaman | Sales | Trango Systems, Inc. | +1-858-248-4006 |
>>>>>>> www.trangosys.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Innovating Microwave Backhaul™
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 11:38 AM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Jeremy, I’m trying to remember, can you upgrade that Lynx to 2+0 with
>>>>>>>> a license key as long as you don’t need XPIC? Trango doesn’t spell it
>>>>>>>> out very well on their website, but it looks like the major
>>>>>>>> differences between Lynx and Orion are buffer size, XPIC, and maybe
>>>>>>>> the interface and powering options? So that you could still double
>>>>>>>> the throughput as long as you can license a different frequency pair
>>>>>>>> for the other polarization.
>>>>>>>> And the issue of the wired interface speed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy
>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, October 21, 2016 10:16 PM
>>>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Highest capacity 6 GHz system
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't know who has the biggest or best, but my 6GHz Trango Apex Lynx
>>>>>>>> has been rock solid for going on four years now. It does 700Mbps FDX.
>>>>>>>> I believe that the Trango Orion has XPIC up to 1.5Gbps in a 56Mhz
>>>>>>>> channel.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 7:41 PM, Josh
>>>>>>>> Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why in the world would they buy Exalt?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Oct 21, 2016 8:10 PM, "Jaime Solorza" <losguyswirel...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I thought Crisco bought out Exalt
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Oct 21, 2016 5:10 PM, "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I thought I got an ad recently from Exalt about a big sale through the
>>>>>>>> end of the year on Extreme Air 6Hz. Oops, I just found the email, and
>>>>>>>> it’s everything but 6 GHz. Not sure I’d buy Exalt anyway. Maybe
>>>>>>>> someone else was having an overstock sale on 6 GHz?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, October 21, 2016 5:50 PM
>>>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Highest capacity 6 GHz system
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> First I have to find out if there are channels in this area.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Then I have a passive repeater to deal with...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not a simple path to engineer.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: Daniel White
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, October 21, 2016 4:33 PM
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Highest capacity 6 GHz system
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well you can only use 60MHz channels max. That helps make it more
>>>>>>>> competitive.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 6GHz most likely precludes higher modulations… you just won’t have the
>>>>>>>> link budget. Also depends if you’re going all outdoor or
>>>>>>>> split-mount/all-indoor.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I’d be shocked if there is a winner here – I’d go with the solution
>>>>>>>> your most comfortable with.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My guess is you will end up with Ceragon/Cambium or SIAE. DragonWave
>>>>>>>> Harmony Advanced is certainly worth a look, although I’m not sure
>>>>>>>> about 6GHz availability since it just started shipping.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chuck feel free to contact me offlist and we could look at some things.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Daniel White
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ConVergence Technologies
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> dwh...@converge-tech.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ...
>
