Yeah, you look at that spare AP capacity and start giving away bandwidth, next thing you know it you are spending big bucks to upgrade your 10 mile licensed backhauls to carry multi gigabit.
On a side note, I wish there was a 450m in 3.65 GHz, where we are limited both in channel size and total spectrum. No 30 or 40 MHz channels, we use all 10 MHz channels. Probably not going to see any development like that at least until CBRS gets settled. And I’m very, very reluctant to get on the LTE bandwagon, having gone through the hype and disappointment cycle with WiMAX, and finding it to be basically a best effort service with limited capacity. Yeah, we can connect and pass data at -85 dBm, but customer satisfaction is way lower than our 450 customers, we don’t want to connect gamers or VoIP customers, and we can’t sell our higher speed packages. At least we are getting CPEs now that are a little less stupid than the Gemteks, but I still dread logging into the basestation, I feel like it should be on a VT100 green screen monitor. From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2016 9:58 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m Make them pay for it though, don't leave money at the table unnecessarily. Time Warner could be selling me a 10gig fiber connection over the same fiber stand that they are selling me a 1gig. Why are they not giving me 10gig? Because I know the fiber can handle it. Its because they can and they know that nobody else in the area is offering a 10gig connection right now. Simple business. I learned that over the last several years that if you under-charge for something, every month that goes by that's money that you've lost that you'll never get back. On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 10:47 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net <mailto:af...@ics-il.net> > wrote: Because you can? FWIW: I don't mean 50 instead of 20, I mean 20 instead of 5. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> _____ From: "Kurt Fankhauser" <lists.wavel...@gmail.com <mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com> > To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2016 9:42:25 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m Don't offer significantly faster speeds in your area unless your forced to by a competitor. If your competitor is offer 3mbps packages then you can offer 10mbps packages and be safe. But no sense in offering 50mbps packages if their only other option is 1.5mbps. What would the point of that be? Your basically giving away bandwidth for free that you don't have to be. You could give the customer the option of the 50mbps package but at a much higher cost since you don't have any competition offering it. On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net <mailto:af...@ics-il.net> > wrote: End user experience. If you're putting 50 customers on and you're peaking relatively low on the frame utilization, you could increase what you're offering. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> _____ From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com <mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2016 9:30:36 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m How is being able to serve 100+ subs from one AP a bad thing? Whether APs are cheap or expensive, we are not in the business of buying APs, we are in the business of selling Internet to customers. More customers = good. If we can do that without buying more APs, what’s wrong with that? From: Af [mailto: <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com> af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2016 9:19 AM To: <mailto:af@afmug.com> af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m For sure frame utilization is important. My thoughts are that if you're loading up that many clients on an AP, maybe you ought to be offering faster plans or removing other restrictions instead of loading up more on an AP. Then again, I don't deploy 450, so I don't have high AP costs to be worried about. ----- Mike Hammett <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> _____ From: "Kurt Fankhauser" < <mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com> lists.wavel...@gmail.com> To: <mailto:af@afmug.com> af@afmug.com Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2016 9:13:06 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m As long as your downlink and uplink frame utilization is not maxing out on the 450 you can definitely load 100 subs on an AP. With the 30mhz channel width and soon to be 40mhz channel width option with the 450 that will just help get more subs on per AP. I personally have had 50 subs on an old FSK 2.4AP as recent as 1 year ago. that AP was capping out at 10mbps on the downlink side. I have no doubt that with a 40mhz channel width 450 AP which would net about 175-200mbps downlink on average depending on how many subs you have running 6x-8x connections and how busy they are that you could easily fit 100+subs on that AP. With Medusa and the ability to push 300-400mbps per AP I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing some people get close to 200 subs on a single AP. Its all about % of frame unitization. Now my next question, is Medusa considered Beam Forming? Wasn't the FCC originally going to allow higher EIRP on "Smart Antennas." Isn't the Medusa about the most smartest AP/Antenna you can get? Just think if the FCC allowed a little more power on the Medusa how much more clients you could get because the range would be better. On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 7:13 AM, Mike Hammett < <mailto:af...@ics-il.net> af...@ics-il.net> wrote: I wouldn't load 100 subs onto any platform out there. There's just not enough capacity on any of them. Same frequency. Technology is how they do it. Tons of stuff out there on how beamforming and mu-MIMO works. ----- Mike Hammett <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> _____ From: "Kurt Fankhauser" < <mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com> lists.wavel...@gmail.com> To: <mailto:af@afmug.com> af@afmug.com Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2016 9:05:18 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m Cambium will never lower SM price until a competitor brings another solution to market that you could also load 100subs on and not have the thing choke. Hopefully Airfiber PTMP will be that. Also what I don't understand about Medusa, since it has a bunch of smaller sectors inside of it,, is the sectors inside of it running ABABABAB frequency re-use? Why is the SM's not getting interference from the adjacent array if they are all operating on same 20mhz frequency? On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 9:09 PM, George Skorup < <mailto:geo...@cbcast.com> geo...@cbcast.com> wrote: Update all SMs on the sector to 15.0.0.1. Hang 450m. Shut off 450 sector and turn 450m on. Collect stats and share. :) Don't have high expectations if you have a high concentration of SMs in one direction. But you should really see a difference where they're fairly spread out over 60-90 degrees. Remember it's 7x 13-degree beams and tweaking the azimuth just a little bit may help balance things out. On 11/1/2016 1:58 PM, SmarterBroadband wrote: That is 100% why I want to use it.� We have an overloaded AP and no new frequency.� A 3x performance boost will solve the problem.� I also hope the 17 degree beams will reduce interference seen by the AP. � From: Af [ <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com> mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of George Skorup Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 8:30 AM To: <mailto:af@afmug.com> af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m � The data that Matt showed us at HQ a few weeks ago where an operator (not in the US) with over 100 SMs! on a single 450 sector proved that a performance boost of 3-3.5x is possible simply by swapping to a 450m sector. And that's still using only that single 20MHz channel in 90 degrees. They created this thing for a reason. And that right there is it. Nuckin futs. On 11/1/2016 9:17 AM, Chuck McCown wrote: Rise Broadband.... ? � From: Matt Mangriotis Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 8:08 AM To: <mailto:af@afmug.com> af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m � I will say that we have a [very large] customer that will remain nameless, which has ~1100 active customers across more than 12 sectors of 450m.� They are very pleased with the performance. � There are several others that are putting up their first sectors now as well.� If you run into issues, we are escalating support cases to our team that has a lot of experience in deploying this model. � Matt � From: Af [ <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com> mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 8:34 PM To: <mailto:af@afmug.com> af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m � <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FAlphonse_and_Gaston%23%2Fmedia%2FFile%3AAlphonsegaston.jpg&data=01%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7Cbe305b2cb945442e3cad08d401f726bf%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C1&sdata=KVm6mRWBg3SiYCVBHxQYPrJliSwuQdAP2VPMOG5mGJo%3D&reserved=0> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphonse_and_Gaston#/media/File:Alphonsegaston.jpg � � From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of SmarterBroadband Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 7:39 PM To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m � Our first 450m should arrive this week.� We plan to replace an existing 450 AP that has 66 customers for our first deployment. � However, I do not want to do this until I have heard that there are some installed and working. � Does anyone have 450m up and running.� Would you please share your experiences and results. � Thanks � Adam � � �
