If you read the 1996 act, it explicitly states that the source of the fund
is a percentage of revenue from the carriers. They all just passed it along
to the users.
So I guess in that light, it is similar to a flat sales tax of telecom
services.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Hohhof
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2016 8:18 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] T-Tommy Wheeler staying corrupt to the very end
Your argument that USF is not a tax but a user fee paid by users of the PSTN
could be used to argue that sales tax is not a tax, it is a user fee paid by
users of goods and services. Or that gasoline tax is a user fee. If it
walks like a duck and quacks like a duck ...
I agree that people keep saying without supporting facts and probably
incorrectly that the PSTN was built with public money. Usually they cite
weak arguments like the State of Pennsylvania gave Bell of PA tax breaks in
return for promises that may not have been met.
Also I think when people on this list complain about ILECs, they are usually
referring to the big price cap carriers, but you respond from the viewpoint
of a small rate of return carrier, which is different.
-----Original Message-----
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2016 8:40 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] T-Tommy Wheeler staying corrupt to the very end
The USF is not and was not and never will be a public subsidy. It is a
replacement for money that was taken away from the ILECS. Some of that
money was originally the AT&T "line haul" settlements and forced Ma Bell to
give the little guys a piece of the long distance revenue that originated or
terminated on their system. USF also replaced long distance revenue
intrastate that was forced by the various state regulatory bodies.
So, everyone got super cheap long distance, lots of long distance choices,
but paid USF. Hardly a subsidy.
Moreover USF is a user FEE paid by the USERS of the PSTN.
It is not public money, it is not a tax. If you don't use the PSTN you
don't pay into the fund.
What is more - public money - tax money - was never used to build the PSTN
as is frequently erroneously cited.
Yes, the REA, later named the RUS loaned public money to utilities, but
quickly became a profit center for the US Guvmnt.
Just the way some of you have SBA loans.
What really made the telecommunications infrastructure great in the county
was the cold war.
The Guvmnt dumped bazillions of dollars into AT&T to attempt to create a
nuclear war proof long distance network.
But this was straight up defense contracting, not subsidy. Just a company
with the right product at the right time.
I have been in this industry pre-divestiture. I watched the whole thing
evolve.
And I watch the WISPs come from zero to the current state complaining the
whole time of the inherent advantages of the incumbent.
Sour Grapes.
-----Original Message-----
From: Faisal Imtiaz
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2016 5:16 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] T-Tommy Wheeler staying corrupt to the very end
But really, would Wal-Mart be happy about giving up some prime shelf
space for some dollar store product?
Well here is the Rub on this.... if you take Wal-Mart for example, on one
hand they have a very successful business model, and offer savings and
convenience, on the other hand they are also responsible (contribution) for
decimating small businesses and small mfg in this country ( I am not say
that they were the only factor).
The question becomes, though which lens do you want to review Wal-Mart from
?
You cannot have it both ways... :)
Besides, Wal-Mart did not build their stores with public subsides.. (cough
cough.... USF funds as an example ).
It was like Obamacare, some elements looked good on paper.
I have my own opinion on this... I don't understand why everyone keep
harping on Obamacare....without even batting any eye on the un-checked greed
that allows for the Cost of Healtcare to be set with no limits in
(It is a F***ing insurance policy to pay the Health Care tab....Call it what
ever care you want.. it will keep going up as long as the Cost of Health
care goes unchecked...... I challenge you to give it some thought and then
tell me Under the current health care system (not taking about
insurance)..who has the incentive for being economically conscious and
frugal for the sake of all parties involved......NO Body !!! it is is
everyone's personal benefit to charge and collect as much as they can, no
questions asked ! ! ....)
Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2016 3:09:26 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] T-Tommy Wheeler staying corrupt to the very end
CLECs were never really able to make any decent money from the get go. By
design in my opinion.
But really, would Wal-Mart be happy about giving up some prime shelf space
for some dollar store product?
It was like Obamacare, some elements looked good on paper.
--
